Trying to simplify an ICE installation
Discussion
Trying to sort out an ICE installation in a 1980's Lotus.
A previous owner had badly installed a Denon amp in the boot along with a BIG speaker. There are cables from the unconnected head unit to the amp and I think cables from the amp to 4 speakers in the car. Yet to decide if the head unit actually works but I've removed the amp. There are phono type sockets in the head unit which the loose cables there could connect, could I connect the other ends direct to the speaker cables by passing the amp? Just don't really want the amp taking up space and the installation rubbish anyway. (Not sure if it worked either.
Thanks, not sure if I've explained that very well but here's a pic of where the loose head unit was.
A previous owner had badly installed a Denon amp in the boot along with a BIG speaker. There are cables from the unconnected head unit to the amp and I think cables from the amp to 4 speakers in the car. Yet to decide if the head unit actually works but I've removed the amp. There are phono type sockets in the head unit which the loose cables there could connect, could I connect the other ends direct to the speaker cables by passing the amp? Just don't really want the amp taking up space and the installation rubbish anyway. (Not sure if it worked either.
Thanks, not sure if I've explained that very well but here's a pic of where the loose head unit was.
The "big speaker" is probably a subwoofer to provide bass.
In short, no you can't connect those phono leads that are a pre out to the amp to the speakers. Either refit the amp (phonos from head unit to amp, wires from amp to each speaker) and just have it power the speakers or run cables from the head unit to the speakers direct.
Edit: the purple/black/white/green in the picture may be speaker wires, it wouldn't be uncommon to have the amp just run a subwoofer and let the head unit power the speakers. If you're sure there are wires to speakers from the amp have a fish around, there may be others hanging around that run straight from the head unit to the speakers.
In short, no you can't connect those phono leads that are a pre out to the amp to the speakers. Either refit the amp (phonos from head unit to amp, wires from amp to each speaker) and just have it power the speakers or run cables from the head unit to the speakers direct.
Edit: the purple/black/white/green in the picture may be speaker wires, it wouldn't be uncommon to have the amp just run a subwoofer and let the head unit power the speakers. If you're sure there are wires to speakers from the amp have a fish around, there may be others hanging around that run straight from the head unit to the speakers.
Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 8th December 17:28
Thanks, been investigating after posting, the phono outputs are RCA? And they aren't amplified within the head unit?
Could I connect the cables to the original 16 pin output cables or will the cables be a different spec and not suitable?
Don't really want the amp in the boot, big, heavy, takes up space, nothing much to securely fix it to and I don't know if it even works. Or the head unit come to that. While I can see the old speaker cables, loose in the door, I have yet to find then in the centre console area behind where the head unit sat.
Could I connect the cables to the original 16 pin output cables or will the cables be a different spec and not suitable?
Don't really want the amp in the boot, big, heavy, takes up space, nothing much to securely fix it to and I don't know if it even works. Or the head unit come to that. While I can see the old speaker cables, loose in the door, I have yet to find then in the centre console area behind where the head unit sat.
Skyedriver said:
Thanks, been investigating after posting, the phono outputs are RCA? And they aren't amplified within the head unit?
Could I connect the cables to the original 16 pin output cables or will the cables be a different spec and not suitable?
Don't really want the amp in the boot, big, heavy, takes up space, nothing much to securely fix it to and I don't know if it even works. Or the head unit come to that. While I can see the old speaker cables, loose in the door, I have yet to find then in the centre console area behind where the head unit sat.
Yes, the phono plugs are RCA and they are not amplified in the head unit. they are unamplified so they can be sent to an external amp like you have got.Could I connect the cables to the original 16 pin output cables or will the cables be a different spec and not suitable?
Don't really want the amp in the boot, big, heavy, takes up space, nothing much to securely fix it to and I don't know if it even works. Or the head unit come to that. While I can see the old speaker cables, loose in the door, I have yet to find then in the centre console area behind where the head unit sat.
Some more pictures of the amp would be helpful.
The amp will have the RCA's going to it, as well as a 'remote' signal that will come from the head unit to turn it on, positive, negative and speaker outputs.
It sounds like it is an amp just to drive a subwoofer, which means you should be able to disconnect all the wiring at the amp, trace it back to source and remove it.
Before you disconnect anything though, disconnect the battery, because the positive feed to the amp is likely directly from the battery via a sizeable cable.
Skyedriver said:
Thanks, been investigating after posting, the phono outputs are RCA? And they aren't amplified within the head unit?
Could I connect the cables to the original 16 pin output cables or will the cables be a different spec and not suitable?
Don't really want the amp in the boot, big, heavy, takes up space, nothing much to securely fix it to and I don't know if it even works. Or the head unit come to that. While I can see the old speaker cables, loose in the door, I have yet to find then in the centre console area behind where the head unit sat.
As megaflow says, ensure the power for the amp is isolated, you may find a in-line fuse in the feed fairly close to the battery.Could I connect the cables to the original 16 pin output cables or will the cables be a different spec and not suitable?
Don't really want the amp in the boot, big, heavy, takes up space, nothing much to securely fix it to and I don't know if it even works. Or the head unit come to that. While I can see the old speaker cables, loose in the door, I have yet to find then in the centre console area behind where the head unit sat.
Whatever speaker wires are hanging around would probably be ok - I enlarged the photo, didn't realise the ones I mentioned aren't connected to anything at present, so yes, you'll have to go in search of them.
If you look around you should be able ot buy a plug with fly leads on, that will plug in to the one you have there and you can then connect the ends to the wires, much nicer than cutting plugs off.
Assuming there's no damage whatever speaker wires are hanging around will probably be ok
Yes a 30Amp fuse close to the battery, battery disconnected.
If I could find the ends of the speaker cabling behind the console or better still a plug with the 8 cables still connected that would be great but at the minute I can't see them. Can un couple the new cables from the speakers and re use the old, assuming there's no breaks in them at the A pillar hinges etc.
Was just thinking I could use the existing new cables to the speakers if I connected the input and output cables of the amp together in the boot then connect the ends of the output cables at the head unit to the plug out the back of the head unit. Means the sound goes from front to back then forward again. Voltage drop?
If I could find the ends of the speaker cabling behind the console or better still a plug with the 8 cables still connected that would be great but at the minute I can't see them. Can un couple the new cables from the speakers and re use the old, assuming there's no breaks in them at the A pillar hinges etc.
Was just thinking I could use the existing new cables to the speakers if I connected the input and output cables of the amp together in the boot then connect the ends of the output cables at the head unit to the plug out the back of the head unit. Means the sound goes from front to back then forward again. Voltage drop?
Skyedriver said:
Was just thinking I could use the existing new cables to the speakers if I connected the input and output cables of the amp together in the boot then connect the ends of the output cables at the head unit to the plug out the back of the head unit. Means the sound goes from front to back then forward again. Voltage drop?
No, because even if we ignored how to connect the wires to the pho leads at the boot end, the problem is (as mentioned above) the connection on the head unit is a pre out, it is unamplified, which wouldn't drive the speakers.Crafty_ said:
No, because even if we ignored how to connect the wires to the pho leads at the boot end, the problem is (as mentioned above) the connection on the head unit is a pre out, it is unamplified, which wouldn't drive the speakers.
Ah, yes, I see. Now bought some proper speaker cable which I'll run from the 16 pin plug adapter on the back of a new head unit (Sony one knackered) to pick up the speaker cables that were fitted on the output from the Denon Amp. Can make a connection for each of 8 leads which will avoid pulling too much of the interior apart. Tried to find the existing speaker cables behind the head unit but can't locate. They still exist, dangling in doors.Edited by Skyedriver on Monday 9th December 11:46
If it were me, I would see if the amplifier works.
It would save ALOT of hassle in terms of rewiring. In the current state, you could potentially put a new head unit in (£10 for something off marketplace), plug in the wires and have a fully working system that is amplified and sound considerably better than speakers running off headunit power. That Denon amp is a decent bit of kit.
The amp will be connected to the speakers up front. Have you checked to see if the original wiring, which would allow you to run them from the headunit, is behind them?
It would save ALOT of hassle in terms of rewiring. In the current state, you could potentially put a new head unit in (£10 for something off marketplace), plug in the wires and have a fully working system that is amplified and sound considerably better than speakers running off headunit power. That Denon amp is a decent bit of kit.
The amp will be connected to the speakers up front. Have you checked to see if the original wiring, which would allow you to run them from the headunit, is behind them?
Skyedriver said:
Ah but if I use the cables that would normally drive speakers, the ones that come from the 16 pin plug they'll be amplified.
Yes, but the ones from the 16 pin are at the front of the car, not at the amplifier. If you really want to remove the amp, you might be better off trying to find the original wiring behind the speakers and reconnecting that.MattsCar said:
If it were me, I would see if the amplifier works.
It would save ALOT of hassle in terms of rewiring. In the current state, you could potentially put a new head unit in (£10 for something off marketplace), plug in the wires and have a fully working system that is amplified and sound considerably better than speakers running off headunit power. That Denon amp is a decent bit of kit.
The amp will be connected to the speakers up front. Have you checked to see if the original wiring, which would allow you to run them from the headunit, is behind them?
In retrospect that might have been the best idea however I doubt it worked, took up space in a relatively small boot, was screwed to a floppy bit of boot trim which had in turn torn from it's fixings due to the weight. Could still install it loose to see if it works I suppose. Day 1, I couldn't wait to get it out. It would save ALOT of hassle in terms of rewiring. In the current state, you could potentially put a new head unit in (£10 for something off marketplace), plug in the wires and have a fully working system that is amplified and sound considerably better than speakers running off headunit power. That Denon amp is a decent bit of kit.
The amp will be connected to the speakers up front. Have you checked to see if the original wiring, which would allow you to run them from the headunit, is behind them?
Is that a DCA 800? Top bit of kit.
Just bite the bullet and remove everything. Then fit a new head unit a nd take the door cards off and connect the existing speaker wire to the speakers and the head unit at the other end.
You might have some nice speakers installed already if someone went to the effort and expense of fitting that amp.
Just bite the bullet and remove everything. Then fit a new head unit a nd take the door cards off and connect the existing speaker wire to the speakers and the head unit at the other end.
You might have some nice speakers installed already if someone went to the effort and expense of fitting that amp.
TEKNOPUG said:
Is that a DCA 800? Top bit of kit.
Just bite the bullet and remove everything. Then fit a new head unit a nd take the door cards off and connect the existing speaker wire to the speakers and the head unit at the other end.
You might have some nice speakers installed already if someone went to the effort and expense of fitting that amp.
I think that's the model reference from memory. Very heavy, bit rusty along the input/ out put panel and one of the input phono sockets is missing it's outer sleeve but that may be attached to the phono plug.Just bite the bullet and remove everything. Then fit a new head unit a nd take the door cards off and connect the existing speaker wire to the speakers and the head unit at the other end.
You might have some nice speakers installed already if someone went to the effort and expense of fitting that amp.
Definitely don't want the massive speaker cabinet that was in there as well or the video recorder. The boot is tiny as it is, if the Denon amp does work I could reinforce the floppy card trim panel to take its weight vertically, the existing leads aren't long enough to lay it flat.
New head unit on order, will connect everything up to see if it works.
To conclude, new radio/CD player freshly wired to the existing speakers
If anyone wants any of the stuff I've removed, you can have it for the postage but remember it may not work.
12V VHS player
Denon Amp (heavy for posting)
Speaker in box
Sony CD/Radio
Did try the stuff on FB, only one interest, for the VHS player with the question "does it still play tapes", despite listing as spares/repair and untested.
If anyone wants any of the stuff I've removed, you can have it for the postage but remember it may not work.
12V VHS player
Denon Amp (heavy for posting)
Speaker in box
Sony CD/Radio
Did try the stuff on FB, only one interest, for the VHS player with the question "does it still play tapes", despite listing as spares/repair and untested.
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