UK growth rate slowing
Discussion
Just noticed it is looking like another recession. I'm confused as increasing taxes will always slow growth rate, why is this a suprise. Usually you makes spending cuts.
Combined with no major cut backs in the civil service, I fear a slow walk into increased UK debt payments, along with overspending, whilst not making the changes needed to grow the country.
Reduce debt, make country more efficient and massive investment in new technologies.
Both parties are messing the economy up, why can't they just focus on reducing debt, Argue about other stuff later .
Combined with no major cut backs in the civil service, I fear a slow walk into increased UK debt payments, along with overspending, whilst not making the changes needed to grow the country.
Reduce debt, make country more efficient and massive investment in new technologies.
Both parties are messing the economy up, why can't they just focus on reducing debt, Argue about other stuff later .
mickythefish said:
Just noticed it is looking like another recession. I'm confused as increasing taxes will always slow growth rate, why is this a suprise. Usually you makes spending cuts.
Combined with no major cut backs in the civil service, I fear a slow walk into increased UK debt payments, along with overspending, whilst not making the changes needed to grow the country.
Reduce debt, make country more efficient and massive investment in new technologies.
Both parties are messing the economy up, why can't they just focus on reducing debt, Argue about other stuff later .
Reduce debt and make massive investments? Surely those two are a bit incompatible. Combined with no major cut backs in the civil service, I fear a slow walk into increased UK debt payments, along with overspending, whilst not making the changes needed to grow the country.
Reduce debt, make country more efficient and massive investment in new technologies.
Both parties are messing the economy up, why can't they just focus on reducing debt, Argue about other stuff later .
mickythefish said:
Both parties are messing the economy up, why can't they just focus on reducing debt, Argue about other stuff later .
Govt debt isn't that much of an issue. The fundamental issue lies in the devout belief that all problems can be solved by increasing wages when the true reality is that you actually want to be bringing down the structural costs that consume excessive percentages of those wages.
Modern politics has effectively become two unlikable parents standing in a living room covered in piles of XL bully s
t doing nothing about training that dog or clearing up it's mess while a creepy grandad sits in the corner devoutly believing it's all the fault of the brown neighbours. Westminster is little more than a flat roofed pub hosting a 365 all you can drink 'dog on a rope' Christmas Day.
We have declining growth potential because the enormous demographic bulge that was the backbone of growth has been retiring for the last 20 years and the quick fix was random immigration rather than intelligent immigration and random deregulation of lending so that the population went into a prolonged period of excess consumption that simulated a temporary economic growth.
If we look at the nations which have growth you tend to find that their younger working demographic ha and is being incentivised to make as much money as possible. Conversely, the developed nations struggling for growth tend to have a general population where those who live there are prevented from doing so which leads to those essential roles being filled by people who don't live there.
And the latest government has rushed in with a raft of punishment taxes on those who were historically successful and those who are currently successful and a rhetoric that such people are bad people. Ergo the continued exodus of the brightest and best GenZ to work environments where they are not seen a part of the problem.
Industrial Europe is being crushed between the industrial mights of North America and Asia while also containing nations with little hope of weening themselves off foreign energy and not inviting massive unemployment as 20th century legacy industries automate or leave. And Europe is our main partner and their situation will drag on the UK's ability to grow.
Meanwhile all the domestic grafters, innovators a just normal people who desire to exchange hard work for basi rewards are not being incentivised.
And we are at fault for making this a left v right argument when in simple terms both are to blame and both are enabled and emboldened by the people who devoutly believe it is a left v right issue.
The scenario of the U.K. being a septic living room containing two rancid parents and the children stick between an XL bully and a dirty old uncle with half arsed visit from social workers who just whinge about wanting more money and working from home is a picture where one starts to believe that what's actually needed is a moderate party that focuses entirely on the children.
The truth is that Labour have some good policies. The Conservatives had some good policies and even the fringe creepy uncle and crazy aunt parties have some logical observations but anything good is crushed by the devout belief of the people that everything must be left/right, good/bad etc.
Tax, borrow, spend and the pouring of money at those who will hurl it immediately to a handful of already very wealthy people while they makes sure the people below them get all the blame is probably set to continue.
Dingu said:
Good point. Austerity was a raging success.
Or is another word for austerity 'living within your means'?'For a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.'
Address to the inaugural meeting of the Free Trade League, February 19, 1904; Randolph Churchill Winston Churchill: Young Statesman (1967)
[quote=DonkeyApplewhile a creepy grandad sits in the corner devoutly believing it's all the fault of the brown neighbours....
We have declining growth potential because the enormous demographic bulge that was the backbone of growth has been retiring for the last 20 years and the quick fix was random immigration
[/quote]
Maye creepy uncle has a slight point then!
We have declining growth potential because the enormous demographic bulge that was the backbone of growth has been retiring for the last 20 years and the quick fix was random immigration
[/quote]
Maye creepy uncle has a slight point then!
Simpo Two said:
Maye creepy uncle has a slight point then!
Not really. If you look at the U.K. age demographics if we hadn't imported replacement working age labour to part replace the enormous exodus of the Boomers then we wouldn't have the income tax take required to pay for those in retirement because we never invested any of their working life taxes into paying for their retirement. Just look at China to see how well it goes for nations that don't accept foreigners when a key demographic exits the working environment. Plenty or arguments that the type of immigration has been wrong in places, sometimes terribly wrong but no valid argument that immigration as a whole wasn't absolutely essential.
One should never appease, enable or even tollerate the dodgy uncle. Unlike dogs they are strictly for Christmas.
wisbech said:
Reduce debt and make massive investments? Surely those two are a bit incompatible.
Innovation. Not building more hospitals. Look at Japan they are becoming a super conductor super power.We are a rich city surrounded by a poor country.
Debt will strangle the UK unless it is tackled, increasing taxes is moronic.Should reduce taxes, reduce civil service spending use that money to invest in new innovation. NHS gets more money yet that's fewer patients, that is union control
Tories spent like no tomorrow, labour will . Might take 5 years but we emerge very lean and powerful.
Yes European growth rate is slowly, this is a European problem as well . This is also highly publicised and will mean growth will stagnate and any debt taken on will probably never get paid back now.. So debts will rise as growth drops.
Civil service pensions offered now are near 30% , I guess some have a lot higher. Private sector is 5% and salaries are the same
This is 100s of billions.
If the economy doesn't grow people will be out of work, there won't be enough pensions for everyone else, the ones not in this very weird civil service place.
Recession, coming, job losses and unemployment looming. We have given from using immigration to prop the economy up to now strangling business .
Absolutely crazy, parties should be working together.
Civil service pensions offered now are near 30% , I guess some have a lot higher. Private sector is 5% and salaries are the same
This is 100s of billions.
If the economy doesn't grow people will be out of work, there won't be enough pensions for everyone else, the ones not in this very weird civil service place.
Recession, coming, job losses and unemployment looming. We have given from using immigration to prop the economy up to now strangling business .
Absolutely crazy, parties should be working together.
Edited by mickythefish on Saturday 7th December 12:16
Country is as skint as it’s ever been, but all I see each day is more and more examples of local council wasting money. New multimillion pound council offices, road upgrades which won’t make hardly any difference and a covid memorial sculpture in the local park being the latest examples.
Country skint yet still spending like it’s going out of fashion.
Christ if I controlled my own personal finances like these lot do I’d be in trouble.
Country skint yet still spending like it’s going out of fashion.
Christ if I controlled my own personal finances like these lot do I’d be in trouble.
The debts taken today rely on growing the economy later. Well that isn't happening.
Taking debts to pay salaries is crazy, but that is what is happening.
Fake it until you make it, on a country scale. People just don't care because government is now paying to win votes. , as Tories did.
Council debt is 1 trillion.
You have the government loaning NHS and councils, who are now paying more in debts than servicing people .
This is how f up the country is but no one wants to address.
20 billion blackhole,that is one months interest payments on debts the UK has.
Taking debts to pay salaries is crazy, but that is what is happening.
Fake it until you make it, on a country scale. People just don't care because government is now paying to win votes. , as Tories did.
Council debt is 1 trillion.
You have the government loaning NHS and councils, who are now paying more in debts than servicing people .
This is how f up the country is but no one wants to address.
20 billion blackhole,that is one months interest payments on debts the UK has.
Edited by mickythefish on Saturday 7th December 15:04
Salted_Peanut said:
mickythefish said:
Civil service pensions offered now are near 30% , I guess some have a lot higher. Private sector is 5% and salaries are the same
Nowadays, is the 28% employer pension contribution true for most public sector pension schemes?I think you might be adding the employee contribution in your number, which is not relevant.
You just can’t carry on using the credit card…. Eventually the interest payment alone will cripple you for life.
That’s what the government is doing…. Let’s borrow more and hope a future pay rise (growth) will get us out of this mess. The trouble is that if that growth doesn’t happen you will be bankrupt.
I appreciate some investment will promote growth but you can’t just spend above your means and continuously do so forever.
We should aim to have a sensible and balanced approach to budgeting. Perhaps running a slight budget surplus to eat away at the country debt or have reserves for emergency spending.
Not wanting to change the waste and what the country can offer with disregard from its current economic status is very negligent.
Make the extra tax take count not just waste it in booze and fags! The government is asking for more money from businesses, etc. Will that make a positive difference or just be disappearing with nothing to show for it? I very much think it will be an exercise of pure waste. Nothing will change but we will have less money in our pocket.
Difficult, unpopular decisions need to be made to get out of this mess and I am not talking about tax rises.
That’s what the government is doing…. Let’s borrow more and hope a future pay rise (growth) will get us out of this mess. The trouble is that if that growth doesn’t happen you will be bankrupt.
I appreciate some investment will promote growth but you can’t just spend above your means and continuously do so forever.
We should aim to have a sensible and balanced approach to budgeting. Perhaps running a slight budget surplus to eat away at the country debt or have reserves for emergency spending.
Not wanting to change the waste and what the country can offer with disregard from its current economic status is very negligent.
Make the extra tax take count not just waste it in booze and fags! The government is asking for more money from businesses, etc. Will that make a positive difference or just be disappearing with nothing to show for it? I very much think it will be an exercise of pure waste. Nothing will change but we will have less money in our pocket.
Difficult, unpopular decisions need to be made to get out of this mess and I am not talking about tax rises.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff