Independent vs specialist
Discussion
If you had to get your 10-15 year old car booked in for some big work like suspension replacement, new brakes (including brake fluid flush etc), or engine maintenance (think cambelt, water pump replacement) then would you:
1. Go to any garage (based on good reviews) who are cheap and claim to be able to do the job on any car
2. Seek out a brand specialist who is about 50% more expensive but know your car inside-out
Main dealers are not included as an option for obvious reasons.
I always leaned towards option 2, but thinking about it, most of the basic stuff in a car are almost the same across brands so does a specialist really make a difference? Any stories of where one option came out better than the other?
1. Go to any garage (based on good reviews) who are cheap and claim to be able to do the job on any car
2. Seek out a brand specialist who is about 50% more expensive but know your car inside-out
Main dealers are not included as an option for obvious reasons.
I always leaned towards option 2, but thinking about it, most of the basic stuff in a car are almost the same across brands so does a specialist really make a difference? Any stories of where one option came out better than the other?
Edited by Gericho on Monday 2nd December 14:06
Depends how common the car is and who the specialist is and whether your local garage is a good un.
If the car's a bit rare, your local garage might not know all the little niggles and foibles to look out for. If they're ten a penny, they will have encountered most stuff in the normal course of business.
The specialist charges for specialist knowledge, and if every garage out there knows that car inside out, it's not specialist so it's not worth paying more for.
You sometimes get a specialist who's worked out a quicker way to get the job done, or have found out the hard way which parts work and which are junk and refuse to fit certain brands, and you benefit from that too. But many times they don't pass the economies on.
So, it depends.
If the car's a bit rare, your local garage might not know all the little niggles and foibles to look out for. If they're ten a penny, they will have encountered most stuff in the normal course of business.
The specialist charges for specialist knowledge, and if every garage out there knows that car inside out, it's not specialist so it's not worth paying more for.
You sometimes get a specialist who's worked out a quicker way to get the job done, or have found out the hard way which parts work and which are junk and refuse to fit certain brands, and you benefit from that too. But many times they don't pass the economies on.
So, it depends.
For really big/specialist jobs, you could add option 3: find a garage specialising in the particular area of work (e.g. suspension specialist, engine builder etc).
Probably depends on the car a lot too. I used the above option 3 not so long ago for suspension work on the 911 (at Center Gravity), but would generally use a Porsche specialist independent with a good rep for more routine work such as servicing, brakes, engine stuff etc. I believe this would enhance the value at least a little bit on eventual sale vs. any old cheap garage (even if you know them to be good) with certain cars.
Other older cars I've had on the other hand I would generally take to the local garage for whatever needed doing.
Anything under about 5 years old though I've tended to stick to main dealer, even if out of warranty.
Probably depends on the car a lot too. I used the above option 3 not so long ago for suspension work on the 911 (at Center Gravity), but would generally use a Porsche specialist independent with a good rep for more routine work such as servicing, brakes, engine stuff etc. I believe this would enhance the value at least a little bit on eventual sale vs. any old cheap garage (even if you know them to be good) with certain cars.
Other older cars I've had on the other hand I would generally take to the local garage for whatever needed doing.
Anything under about 5 years old though I've tended to stick to main dealer, even if out of warranty.
We are not brand specific and will work on anything and imo do a very good job.
I can never understand the love for brand specialists, they very often run by the people that used to be main dealer, the very people who everyone complains about.
The only time a specialist comes into there own
Is with random faults where working on the same car will lead them to the issue quicker and possibly things like software.
If you have a clutch fault go to any decent garage, if you have a gearbox fault go to someone who deals in gearboxes
I can never understand the love for brand specialists, they very often run by the people that used to be main dealer, the very people who everyone complains about.
The only time a specialist comes into there own
Is with random faults where working on the same car will lead them to the issue quicker and possibly things like software.
If you have a clutch fault go to any decent garage, if you have a gearbox fault go to someone who deals in gearboxes
depends on whether the car is specialist or not.
on my boxster, yes, any porsche is a specialist car, so i go to a specialist for any work on it. the garage i use ONLY work on porsches.
on my bmw 3 series, no, its not a specialist car, so it would go to a do it all garage.
cars of note would be BMW M cars, or Mercedes AMG cars, would probably go to a specialist.
on my boxster, yes, any porsche is a specialist car, so i go to a specialist for any work on it. the garage i use ONLY work on porsches.
on my bmw 3 series, no, its not a specialist car, so it would go to a do it all garage.
cars of note would be BMW M cars, or Mercedes AMG cars, would probably go to a specialist.
brillomaster said:
on my boxster, yes, any porsche is a specialist car, so i go to a specialist for any work on it. the garage i use ONLY work on porsches.
It really isn't - our local trusted independent has maintained our 986 Boxster for well over a decade without issue and without the ridiculously excessive bills that some specialists seem to manage to generate.As he says - a car is generally a car and aside from maybe some electronics on newer stuff, servicing and mechanical fault finding on a Boxster or Bentley is not really any different than doing the same on a Fiesta.
Gericho said:
If you had to get your 10-15 year old car booked in for some big work like suspension replacement, new brakes (including brake fluid flush etc), or engine maintenance (think cambelt, water pump replacement) then would you:
1. Go to any garage (based on good reviews) who are cheap and claim to be able to do the job on any car
2. Seek out a brand specialist who is about 50% more expensive but know your car inside-out
Main dealers are not included as an option for obvious reasons.
I always leaned towards option 2, but thinking about it, most of the basic stuff in a car are almost the same across brands so does a specialist really make a difference? Any stories of where one option came out better than the other?
I’d be tempted to do this by how common a car is. Ford Focus or VW Golf, bet most garages would have worked on tons of them. Probably don’t need a specialist. 1. Go to any garage (based on good reviews) who are cheap and claim to be able to do the job on any car
2. Seek out a brand specialist who is about 50% more expensive but know your car inside-out
Main dealers are not included as an option for obvious reasons.
I always leaned towards option 2, but thinking about it, most of the basic stuff in a car are almost the same across brands so does a specialist really make a difference? Any stories of where one option came out better than the other?
Edited by Gericho on Monday 2nd December 14:06
Even with Porsche mentioned, yes I’d take an old 911 to a specialist, but a Macan that is based on generic VAG platform and components, probably not.
Mind you, I used a VW specialist when I had my Golf, because they were within walking distance and seemed pretty honest. Seemed more important to build a history with one place if they were decent. They also recommended good aftermarket components as well. Sometimes they would use Genuine VAG, saying it was the best option. It was good that they got to know my car and my preferences. Made maintenance much easier on my part.
Edited by wyson on Monday 2nd December 17:26
wyson said:
I’d be tempted to do this by how common a car is. Ford Focus or VW Golf, bet most garages would have worked on tons of them. Probably don’t need a specialist.
Even with Porsche mentioned, yes I’d take an old 911 to a specialist, but a Macan that is based on generic VAG platform and components, probably not.
Mind you, I used a VW specialist when I had my Golf, because they were within walking distance and seemed pretty honest. Seemed more important to build a history with one place if they were decent. They also recommended good aftermarket components as well. Sometimes they would use Genuine VAG, saying it was the best option. It was good that they got to know my car and my preferences. Made maintenance much easier on my part.
Let's say its a Golf R or a Focus RS. Would that change things?Even with Porsche mentioned, yes I’d take an old 911 to a specialist, but a Macan that is based on generic VAG platform and components, probably not.
Mind you, I used a VW specialist when I had my Golf, because they were within walking distance and seemed pretty honest. Seemed more important to build a history with one place if they were decent. They also recommended good aftermarket components as well. Sometimes they would use Genuine VAG, saying it was the best option. It was good that they got to know my car and my preferences. Made maintenance much easier on my part.
Edited by wyson on Monday 2nd December 17:26
Gericho said:
wyson said:
I’d be tempted to do this by how common a car is. Ford Focus or VW Golf, bet most garages would have worked on tons of them. Probably don’t need a specialist.
Even with Porsche mentioned, yes I’d take an old 911 to a specialist, but a Macan that is based on generic VAG platform and components, probably not.
Mind you, I used a VW specialist when I had my Golf, because they were within walking distance and seemed pretty honest. Seemed more important to build a history with one place if they were decent. They also recommended good aftermarket components as well. Sometimes they would use Genuine VAG, saying it was the best option. It was good that they got to know my car and my preferences. Made maintenance much easier on my part.
Let's say its a Golf R or a Focus RS. Would that change things?Even with Porsche mentioned, yes I’d take an old 911 to a specialist, but a Macan that is based on generic VAG platform and components, probably not.
Mind you, I used a VW specialist when I had my Golf, because they were within walking distance and seemed pretty honest. Seemed more important to build a history with one place if they were decent. They also recommended good aftermarket components as well. Sometimes they would use Genuine VAG, saying it was the best option. It was good that they got to know my car and my preferences. Made maintenance much easier on my part.
Edited by wyson on Monday 2nd December 17:26
I have a Mk1 TT 225, nothing special by any stretch, but my sole car and something I've grown fond of. I know them to be finnicky things the older they get, and was advised when purchasing it from an Audi enthusiast that your common or garden indy - who may not have actually worked on one before - could miss the sorts of things one should look out for and deal with pre-problem.
His anecdote was related to a common fault; the oil pick-up pipe, which has a habit of breaking up and contaminating oil / blocking things, so as a means of preventative maintenence he asked his local man-in-garage type to carry out a check and sort as required. The matey apparently insisted 'there's no such problem' even though it is well documented in TT circles. He used a VAG specialist ever since, as have I.
Way I see it, perhaps nonsensically, your average indy is probably less and less familiar with older stuff, moreso the performance variants; and / or may treat all vehicles using the same standardised tick-list. I'd happily pay a small premium to know I'm having work done by a garage that has at least some practical experience / knowledge within the faculty. Bonus points if they are as happy to see my vehicle as I am to own it.
I (generally) take my Vauxhall Monaro to a 'specialist'. It is in reality, a very simple car, but still, it is very rare here, and I am much more comfortable letting guys that know them really well work on it.
Seeing them regularly, means its nothing new, so much less likely to have its nuts revved off, just to hear the V8 or have unnecessary 'test drives'.
They are also aware of all the common issues and carry spares that an independent will not.
Having done many common jobs many times, means they know the tricks and short cuts and I find their labour times impressive and the bill very reasonable largely because of this.
Each to their own I suppose, but its what I'm happy with.
Seeing them regularly, means its nothing new, so much less likely to have its nuts revved off, just to hear the V8 or have unnecessary 'test drives'.
They are also aware of all the common issues and carry spares that an independent will not.
Having done many common jobs many times, means they know the tricks and short cuts and I find their labour times impressive and the bill very reasonable largely because of this.
Each to their own I suppose, but its what I'm happy with.
Our regular indy refused to even consider sorting the rear self leveller shocks on my Forester when one was found leaking and failed MOT and i was busy at the time, said it was a specialist job, it wasn't i fitted new shocks and springs myself saving £hundreds, they'll never see me or my wallet again.
If something fairly unusual ie Subaru, or something like a VW 1.4TSI cambelt change requiring expensive equipment then i'd always prefer a make specialist, for a new set of brakes all round or general servicing then yes any reputable indy.
If something fairly unusual ie Subaru, or something like a VW 1.4TSI cambelt change requiring expensive equipment then i'd always prefer a make specialist, for a new set of brakes all round or general servicing then yes any reputable indy.
If there is a specialist in a sensible distance and I want to keep the car up to scratch then specialist every time. From what I've seen when I can't use a specialist, the labour costs are about the same per hour, and the specialist will know little tricks for some jobs as well as the idiosyncrasies of the car so may even work out cheaper.
I have a lot of marque specialists within 20-30 minutes drive, fortunately. But there seems to be a sweet spot where a car is "special" enough that doing good work on it needs a good knowledge of the car, but common enough that someone can afford to turn away drivers of other marques. So a Ford or Vauxhall is too humdrum (with a few notable exceptions... Lotus Carlton, GT40, Monaco, RS200 for instance) to warrant a specialist. Then there are the ultra rare cars that end up with outfits like Tyrrell's because someone can't make a living specialising on the four examples still in existence.
I knew a guy who had such an encyclopaedic knowledge of Citroen products from the original TAs to the XM and Xantia era, that he made much of his living from travelling around to show other Citroen specialists what to do. A consultant mechanic, for want of a better term. I had no idea what he did for a living until his daughter (who I was seeing, and didn't even realise liked cars) took me to a car show and engaged beard mode in the Citroen section... Boy did she know her Citroens.
I have a lot of marque specialists within 20-30 minutes drive, fortunately. But there seems to be a sweet spot where a car is "special" enough that doing good work on it needs a good knowledge of the car, but common enough that someone can afford to turn away drivers of other marques. So a Ford or Vauxhall is too humdrum (with a few notable exceptions... Lotus Carlton, GT40, Monaco, RS200 for instance) to warrant a specialist. Then there are the ultra rare cars that end up with outfits like Tyrrell's because someone can't make a living specialising on the four examples still in existence.
I knew a guy who had such an encyclopaedic knowledge of Citroen products from the original TAs to the XM and Xantia era, that he made much of his living from travelling around to show other Citroen specialists what to do. A consultant mechanic, for want of a better term. I had no idea what he did for a living until his daughter (who I was seeing, and didn't even realise liked cars) took me to a car show and engaged beard mode in the Citroen section... Boy did she know her Citroens.
I’m lucky insomuch as my trusted independent guy will just tell me in his coded way what he’s confident with and what he’s not! “yup, bring it in, we’ll do a grand job got you” or “we’ll help you out if you’re in a real pinch, but it won’t be cheap I’m afraid, it really won’t…”
Never give work to somebody who’s not motivated by the opportunity imo.
Never give work to somebody who’s not motivated by the opportunity imo.
I'm lucky to have a specialist who spent 15 years at Sytner looking after my 2006 Z4M as he has worked on them since they were new. I take my 2005 330i to him as well as he has all the diagnostic equipment which was handy when one of the wires in the loom on the boot lid split and I got a "bulb-out" light on the dash as he knew what to look for.
But if I knew of a good local garage I'd happily take the 330i there for an oil service, brake fluid refresh, new brake pads, etc. as those jobs are pretty much the same on any car.
But if I knew of a good local garage I'd happily take the 330i there for an oil service, brake fluid refresh, new brake pads, etc. as those jobs are pretty much the same on any car.
Snow and Rocks said:
brillomaster said:
on my boxster, yes, any porsche is a specialist car, so i go to a specialist for any work on it. the garage i use ONLY work on porsches.
It really isn't - our local trusted independent has maintained our 986 Boxster for well over a decade without issue and without the ridiculously excessive bills that some specialists seem to manage to generate.As he says - a car is generally a car and aside from maybe some electronics on newer stuff, servicing and mechanical fault finding on a Boxster or Bentley is not really any different than doing the same on a Fiesta.
It's utter bs.
If you want a car that drives like new, buy a new car. Otherwise do all the basic stuff like oil changes and replace other stuff when it's needed, not before. Any decent garage should be more than capable of working on a 986/987. No specialist knowledge is required.
Unreal said:
Snow and Rocks said:
brillomaster said:
on my boxster, yes, any porsche is a specialist car, so i go to a specialist for any work on it. the garage i use ONLY work on porsches.
It really isn't - our local trusted independent has maintained our 986 Boxster for well over a decade without issue and without the ridiculously excessive bills that some specialists seem to manage to generate.As he says - a car is generally a car and aside from maybe some electronics on newer stuff, servicing and mechanical fault finding on a Boxster or Bentley is not really any different than doing the same on a Fiesta.
It's utter bs.
If you want a car that drives like new, buy a new car. Otherwise do all the basic stuff like oil changes and replace other stuff when it's needed, not before. Any decent garage should be more than capable of working on a 986/987. No specialist knowledge is required.
It’s just a car, and not a particularly complicated one.
Although sometimes things are bloody awkward to get at without a ramp, the thing is designed to be got at by looking up from underneath rather than top down.
Gericho said:
Let's say its a Golf R or a Focus RS. Would that change things?
If I owned one of those and it was a standard unmodified car over 5 years old i'd take them to a good local garage which is not a specialist. I don't think either car is unique enough to require specialist treatment. If the car was uniquely modified I would travel to a specialist who knows the car and the intricacies of the modifications but I'm talking a lot more than a stage 1 remap and an induction kit. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff