Inside a black hole

Inside a black hole

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mickythefish

Original Poster:

1,700 posts

19 months

Friday 29th November 2024
quotequote all
Black holes are interesting in the zero sum universe. As they must contain energy somehow. Yet space doesn't exist but time does?

If the black hole condensed matter into the very smallest volumes, doesn't that indicate that atoms and matter have a lot of empty space already, to be condensed. It doesn't destroy totally as it it still has an impact on space time via gravity. So has a mass .

Simpo Two

88,603 posts

278 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2024
quotequote all
mickythefish said:
If the black hole condensed matter into the very smallest volumes, doesn't that indicate that atoms and matter have a lot of empty space already, to be condensed.
Yes. Most of an atom is empty space.

Panamax

5,792 posts

47 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2024
quotequote all
IIRC it was ground-breaking physicist John Lydon who most succinctly summarised this concept,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_aoQJ1O4WU

mickythefish

Original Poster:

1,700 posts

19 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2024
quotequote all
I can't be the only one to really think , the answers to the universe are around us. A black hole is due to mass but what I don't understand is the mass must be kept in the black hole.

Space time exist together, but obviously time must be broken. So if time doesn't exist does that mean that a black hole is stuck in time from the point of view in an universe. If mass exists then mass must be able to exist without time, yet nothing else can.

So the secret to time is mass, a great mass can split space time. We know it bends but surely it can break the two forces. Or is time a separate force.?

Shame we can do black hole experiments on earth because I think they hold the secret to time travel.

A space ship being pulled by a black hole, warping spacetime just enough to be timeless in it's bubble, but using the gravitational force to travel through space at a great speed, provided by the black hole consuming mass.

Edited by mickythefish on Tuesday 3rd December 20:00

annodomini2

6,940 posts

264 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
mickythefish said:
I can't be the only one to really think , the answers to the universe are around us. A black hole is due to mass but what I don't understand is the mass must be kept in the black hole.

Space time exist together, but obviously time must be broken. So if time doesn't exist does that mean that a black hole is stuck in time from the point of view in an universe. If mass exists then mass must be able to exist without time, yet nothing else can.

So the secret to time is mass, a great mass can split space time. We know it bends but surely it can break the two forces. Or is time a separate force.?

Shame we can do black hole experiments on earth because I think they hold the secret to time travel.

A space ship being pulled by a black hole, warping spacetime just enough to be timeless in it's bubble, but using the gravitational force to travel through space at a great speed, provided by the black hole consuming mass.

Edited by mickythefish on Tuesday 3rd December 20:00
Fundamentally we don't know.

As you cross the event horizon of a black hole all the laws of physics as we understand them fail.

wildoliver

9,134 posts

229 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
Panamax said:
IIRC it was ground-breaking physicist John Lydon who most succinctly summarised this concept,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_aoQJ1O4WU
Rotten concept if you ask me.

mickythefish

Original Poster:

1,700 posts

19 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
annodomini2 said:
Fundamentally we don't know.

As you cross the event horizon of a black hole all the laws of physics as we understand them fail.
Yes we know the laws as they stand, isn't it exciting to think other laws exist in the same universe. A black hole still exists in this universe. Mass must be the secret to it all. I don't buy a black hole warps space time in the hole itself. It isn't a hole it is a very concentrated amount of mass in a small area. Mass and time I think are linked some how. Only way to check is go into one. One man trip though. But maybe two entangled particles could give some indication of what exists there. I think black holes are the secret to a lot of issues in the universe.

nickfrog

22,532 posts

230 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
I stopped trying to understand any more than Interstellar. I tried to read Hawkins 20 years ago but failed at that.

mickythefish

Original Poster:

1,700 posts

19 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
Most of the discovers of the universe are from ancient times. The universe is connected to all, just listening to it, anyone can do.

Faust66

2,229 posts

178 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
mickythefish said:
I can't be the only one to really think , the answers to the universe are around us. A black hole is due to mass but what I don't understand is the mass must be kept in the black hole.

Space time exist together, but obviously time must be broken. So if time doesn't exist does that mean that a black hole is stuck in time from the point of view in an universe. If mass exists then mass must be able to exist without time, yet nothing else can.

So the secret to time is mass, a great mass can split space time. We know it bends but surely it can break the two forces. Or is time a separate force.?

Shame we can do black hole experiments on earth because I think they hold the secret to time travel.

A space ship being pulled by a black hole, warping spacetime just enough to be timeless in it's bubble, but using the gravitational force to travel through space at a great speed, provided by the black hole consuming mass.

Edited by mickythefish on Tuesday 3rd December 20:00
Nope. You're not the only one to think about this Micky...

https://scholarworks.boisestate.edu/cgi/viewconten...

I quite like the Rubber Sheet concept (Michael Crichton covers it well in 'Sphere'. Not his best novel but quite a good read).



Arkose

3,520 posts

166 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
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I started reading the Brian Cox "Black Holes" book a while back... got half way through as it fired my brain...

Desiderata

2,727 posts

67 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
As a non-scientific, non educated, simple layman, I always try to picture concepts like black holes, quantum physics etc in terms of stuff I do understand .
My simple-minded explanation of black holes is that they are actually objects (stars maybe) zooming away from us at close to the speed of light, not visible because they are heading away from us faster than the light from them can get back to us.
The immense "gravity" shown in them is simply stuff pouring into the vacuum they've left behind.

Faust66

2,229 posts

178 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
Desiderata said:
As a non-scientific, non educated, simple layman, I always try to picture concepts like black holes, quantum physics etc in terms of stuff I do understand .
My simple-minded explanation of black holes is that they are actually objects (stars maybe) zooming away from us at close to the speed of light, not visible because they are heading away from us faster than the light from them can get back to us.
The immense "gravity" shown in them is simply stuff pouring into the vacuum they've left behind.
Layman here as well...

Don't think of black holes as an object, more of a region in space/time.

The rubber sheet model works for this quite well (it's difficult to think in 4D terms though): if space/time is a rubber sheet, all objects (stars, planets etc.) put a dent or dip in the sheet. This dip/dent represents the gravity that all objects 'produce'. If the object is too 'heavy' i.e. it has an excess of mass (for want of a better term) it produces too much gravity and tears the rubber sheet.

That tear is your black hole.

Don't forget this is all theoretical and is a product of, and depends on, Einstein's work on general relativity (other scientists had theorised BHs before Einstein though).






Apologies to any actual Astrophysicists reading if I've screwed that up to badly.




Edited due to typo and sexual innuendo.


Edited by Faust66 on Wednesday 4th December 14:18

nickfrog

22,532 posts

230 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
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Faust66 said:
Don't think of back holes as an object, more of a region in space/time.
Tear in back hole? Am I on the right site? wink

Faust66

2,229 posts

178 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Faust66 said:
Don't think of black holes as an object, more of a region in space/time.
Tear in back hole? Am I on the right site? wink
hehe

Naughty boy!

mickythefish

Original Poster:

1,700 posts

19 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
How can a monkey brain comprehend the mechanisms of a black hole, there what is infinitely probable is most likely .

Imagine infinite small black holes around a space ship, being pulled forward by a bigger black hole

You could travel faster than light whilst not breaking existing universe laws

Black holes defy all fundamental rules therefore the rules don't exist, we can there use these non rules to move around the universe. Why do you have to be intelligent to understand this.

Scarletpimpofnel

1,022 posts

31 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
I wouldn't even claim to be a layman so here is my idiot question:

Indide a black hole is it possible that the protons and electrons (as I was taught them at school anyway) combine and eradicate each other leaving behind only neutrons bunched together, thus massive density in a small volume as all the sapce in an atom has now gone as the electrons and protons are gone?

Faust66

2,229 posts

178 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
Scarletpimpofnel said:
I wouldn't even claim to be a layman so here is my idiot question:

Indide a black hole is it possible that the protons and electrons (as I was taught them at school anyway) combine and eradicate each other leaving behind only neutrons bunched together, thus massive density in a small volume as all the sapce in an atom has now gone as the electrons and protons are gone?
https://science.nasa.gov/universe/black-holes/anatomy/#singularity

Bit more of a dense read (pun very much intended):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singul...

mickythefish

Original Poster:

1,700 posts

19 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
Whoever starts the black hole race will win the earth that's clear.

Faust66

2,229 posts

178 months

Wednesday 4th December 2024
quotequote all
mickythefish said:
How can a monkey brain comprehend the mechanisms of a black hole, there what is infinitely probable is most likely .

Imagine infinite small black holes around a space ship, being pulled forward by a bigger black hole

You could travel faster than light whilst not breaking existing universe laws

Black holes defy all fundamental rules therefore the rules don't exist, we can there use these non rules to move around the universe. Why do you have to be intelligent to understand this.
Do you like spaghetti?

Hope so... https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/what-happens-...

If you were near enough to a BH to try the spaceship plan, you wouldn't be able to escape it, and sorts of interesting things would happen to you. None of 'em good.