Net migration - highest ever it's been

[s1962a]

BBC said:

Net migration – the difference between people arriving and leaving – is now estimated to have been 906,000 in the year to June 2023, the highest ever.

In the year to June last year, the ONS now says 82,000 more people came to live in the UK than they previously thought and 84,000 fewer people left the country.

The ONS says it had previously missed 43,000 people arriving from Ukraine in the year to June last year.

Almost a million people net migration for June 2023! The figure for June 2024 is 728,000.

If we really need that many people coming over, why can't our governments be more honest with us? Why sell us a lie that we can cap numbers when we allow so much legal migration, and then divert our attention to the illegal boat people, which is a small fraction of the official numbers.

[paulw123]

Crazy numbers and in no way needed or sustainable surely?

Be interested to know how many of those were to fill skilled job vacancies.

Edited by paulw123 on Thursday 28th November 11:03

[s1962a]

paulw123 said:

Crazy numbers and in no way needed or sustainable surely?

We need a grown up conversation about this that doesn't involve emotions or belonging to a certain camp.

Either we need migration for jobs that the UK workforce just aren't willing to do, in which case we need honesty about the migration numbers.

Or we need to incentivise our workforce to do these jobs. Would someone be willing to do these jobs for a £20 an hour minimum wage? Yes, this will hurt business, but what is more important? Keeping business staffing costs down or keeping migration low?

[Amateurish]

Didn't the Tories say they would keep it under 100,000?

[Super Sonic]

Minimum wage is not £20ph. Nowhere near.

[Leptons]

Is there any data based on Gender relating to this migration? I’d be interested to know what the split on it is?!

[Longy00000]

Just wait for all the gnashing of teeth and crying when half the country gets flooded again over rhe winter.
If 1.5m people arrive let's assume that's probably 500,000 homes required(?) and a government who say build 370,000 houses this year ....well where do they want them.built?
Wherever it is I gtee I will lead to greater pressures on flood areas and create ever more problems

[s1962a]

Super Sonic said:

Minimum wage is not £20ph. Nowhere near.

If it was though, would more of our home grown workforce want to do those jobs? Yes I understand it would cripple business, but what other levers do we have to reduce migration and get our people doing those jobs?

[Olivera]

Batst crazy figures. Makes housing an intractable issue that won't be solved in our lifetime.

[Otispunkmeyer]

paulw123 said:

Crazy numbers and in no way needed or sustainable surely?

Be interested to know how many of those were to fill skilled job vacancies.

Edited by paulw123 on Thursday 28th November 11:03

This is the crux isn't it.

all for immigration... but you can't just import endless people who are going to end up doing Uber eats or working the black market. Most other countries you go to you need to jump many hoops to get in, including often whether your skills and education are something they need. I know some will also want you to show that you can actually fund yourself for however long, should you get in and then have to look for work (or work falls through) and when you do get in there's no guarantee you'll be allowed to stay indefinitely.

We may have those things in place too, but I have to say, it sorta doesn't look like it!

[James6112]

Leptons said:

Is there any data based on Gender relating to this migration? I’d be interested to know what the split on it is?!

A lot of data here:-

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...

According to the latest Census, migrants were slightly more likely to be female than people born in the UK, at 53% vs. 51%. These differences were especially pronounced among migrants born in East or Southeast Asia (60% female), and the Americas and Caribbean (57% female).

[s1962a]

Olivera said:

Batst crazy figures. Makes housing an intractable issue that won't be solved in our lifetime.

All because we want to keep wages low for business owners. We have 1.8 million people claiming unemployment benefits.

[s1962a]

James6112 said:

According to the latest Census, migrants were slightly more likely to be female than people born in the UK, at 53% vs. 51%. These differences were especially pronounced among migrants born in East or Southeast Asia (60% female), and the Americas and Caribbean (57% female).

My anecdotal evidence is rubbish, but everytime I seem to go to a coffee shop/take away place, it always seems to be Indian women working behind the counter. This might just be a London thing.

[White-Noise]

Excluding immigration and migration, I wonder what the population growth or decline is.

I presume a falling birth rate and longer lives may keep it more level but more of that lot will be retirees than working over time.

A cheeky question for ai... here is what it told me.

• *******

In the United Kingdom, natural population change—defined as the difference between the number of births and deaths—has shown a declining trend over the past two decades. Here's an overview of the most recent figures, as well as data from 5, 10, and 20 years ago:

Mid-2023:

Births: 598,400

Deaths: 598,000

Natural Change: +400


In the year leading up to mid-2023, the UK experienced a natural increase of just 400 people, marking the smallest natural change since 1978.

Mid-2018:

Births: 744,000

Deaths: 623,000

Natural Change: +121,000


Five years earlier, in the year to mid-2018, the natural change was 121,000, which was less than half the figure from mid-2012.

Mid-2013:

Births: Approximately 778,000

Deaths: Approximately 576,000

Natural Change: +202,000


In the year to mid-2013, the natural change was around 202,000, indicating a higher birth rate relative to deaths during that period.

Mid-2003:

Births: Approximately 695,000

Deaths: Approximately 612,000

Natural Change: +83,000


Twenty years ago, in the year to mid-2003, the natural change was about 83,000, reflecting a modest natural population growth.

These figures illustrate a significant decline in natural population growth over the past two decades, with the natural change approaching zero in recent years. This trend is primarily due to decreasing birth rates and an increasing number of deaths, leading to a greater reliance on net migration for overall population growth.

Edited by White-Noise on Thursday 28th November 11:21

Edited by White-Noise on Thursday 28th November 11:22

[chrispmartha]

And as much as some on here won't like it, Brexit has certainly added to the issue - which ironically was one of the lies it was sold on.

[Amateurish]

We are definitely seeing this at my kids secondary school in the W Mids.

The current Year 7 is 40% EAL (English as an additional language) vs about 3% in 2019.

The recent arrivals are mostly Indian, Pakistani and Chinese / Hong Kong.

[Condi]

No doubt it's all Labour's fault despite not being in power for 1 second of the time period it relates to. The Daily Mail are rather quiet about that bit....



There was a great program on the BBC about Immigration, which you can find on the iPlayer. Explains the issues and basically while the Conservatives were talking tough they had very relaxed policies.

[Rufus Stone]

It'll all be resolved soon. Hundreds of thousands are planning on leaving the UK because they don't want to live under a Labour government.

[scenario8]

Hard to believe how fast time flies. It was 18 months ago I contributed to this thread;

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Since only that time there have been a net number of arrivals approximating to the entire populations of Edinburgh and Glasgow and Aberdeen and Dundee.

Big numbers.

[.:ian:.]

Condi said:

No doubt it's all Labour's fault despite not being in power for 1 second of the time period it relates to. The Daily Mail are rather quiet about that bit....



There was a great program on the BBC about Immigration, which you can find on the iPlayer. Explains the issues and basically while the Conservatives were talking tough they had very relaxed policies.

Keir is requesting you hold his beer in anticipation of the figures for July - December