Have new cars lost their "lustre"?
Discussion
This is very much where I am at the moment. Fortunately I don’t have a “new car” budget but even if I did, there are very few vaguely attainable cars that really get me excited. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t say no to a new Aston Martin or the new Ferrari 12 Cilindri but even the slightly cheaper new cars that I like such as the 911, Range Rover and Mercedes-Benz SL, I kind of think that I prefer the older versions (997, L322/L405, R129/R230) etc. If you had asked me 15-20 years ago if there were any new cars that I would love to own, then I could have probably given you 20-25 cars that I would have been jumping up and down to own. I used to consume as much written content about the latest models as possible and still subscribe to Evo but it mostly sits unread and the humdrum stuff is so homogeneous that I can't really be bothered to read up on that.
I owned an E30 325i and a W202 C-Class back in the day when they were just cheap old cars but those two brands (BMW/Mercedes) were still very aspirational to me and I would have loved to own a new/newer, more expensive one at the time but to be honest, nothing in the new BMW/Mercedes lineup really speaks to me or has done for some time, even the M/AMG cars seem less desirable compared to their illustrious predecessors. In fairness, the new E-Class does look quite nice but not for the price that Mercedes wants to charge me.
It’s not an anti-EV thing (it’s a little bit of an anti-SUV/crossover thing) as many EVs although expensive and high depreciating are a bit more compelling than their ICE counterparts. I would happily own a Renault 5/e-208/Corsa-e over a new Clio/petrol 208/Corsa for example and the new 5 (not the Alpine version) is certainly a car that I would be quite excited to own.
The only vaguely attainable new cars that really hold any appeal to me are from the land of the rising sun. GR86, GR Yaris, Civic Type R, MX5 etc but I wish the Yaris/Civic were 10-15k cheaper like their predecessors, as 40-50k seems really punchy.
So is it just me or has the desire to own a brand new car somewhat lost its appeal in recent years?
I owned an E30 325i and a W202 C-Class back in the day when they were just cheap old cars but those two brands (BMW/Mercedes) were still very aspirational to me and I would have loved to own a new/newer, more expensive one at the time but to be honest, nothing in the new BMW/Mercedes lineup really speaks to me or has done for some time, even the M/AMG cars seem less desirable compared to their illustrious predecessors. In fairness, the new E-Class does look quite nice but not for the price that Mercedes wants to charge me.
It’s not an anti-EV thing (it’s a little bit of an anti-SUV/crossover thing) as many EVs although expensive and high depreciating are a bit more compelling than their ICE counterparts. I would happily own a Renault 5/e-208/Corsa-e over a new Clio/petrol 208/Corsa for example and the new 5 (not the Alpine version) is certainly a car that I would be quite excited to own.
The only vaguely attainable new cars that really hold any appeal to me are from the land of the rising sun. GR86, GR Yaris, Civic Type R, MX5 etc but I wish the Yaris/Civic were 10-15k cheaper like their predecessors, as 40-50k seems really punchy.
So is it just me or has the desire to own a brand new car somewhat lost its appeal in recent years?
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 21st November 21:30
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 21st November 21:31
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 21st November 21:47
It’s because cars have become white goods.
And I don’t buy Autofridge or TopTemperature magazines, for fridges and ovens respectively.
Just like I no longer read any car reviews, because they’re pretty much all dull and we all know they are, we just pretend they’re not by finding vanishingly small differences to become excited over like they make a difference any more.
Yes Ferrari and Porsche are still a bit exciting, just like a Fridge that AI scans your food and tells Starmer if you’re eating green traffic light foods or red, and to NHS tax you accordingly
I’d just buy a car you do like and look after it and enjoy it.
I’m sure times will change again, and cars will be exciting again… but we’re definitely in a bad time for cars.
And I don’t buy Autofridge or TopTemperature magazines, for fridges and ovens respectively.
Just like I no longer read any car reviews, because they’re pretty much all dull and we all know they are, we just pretend they’re not by finding vanishingly small differences to become excited over like they make a difference any more.
Yes Ferrari and Porsche are still a bit exciting, just like a Fridge that AI scans your food and tells Starmer if you’re eating green traffic light foods or red, and to NHS tax you accordingly
I’d just buy a car you do like and look after it and enjoy it.
I’m sure times will change again, and cars will be exciting again… but we’re definitely in a bad time for cars.
Mr Whippy said:
It’s because cars have become white goods.
And I don’t buy Autofridge or TopTemperature magazines, for fridges and ovens respectively.
Just like I no longer read any car reviews, because they’re pretty much all dull and we all know they are, we just pretend they’re not by finding vanishingly small differences to become excited over like they make a difference any more.
Yes Ferrari and Porsche are still a bit exciting, just like a Fridge that AI scans your food and tells Starmer if you’re eating green traffic light foods or red, and to NHS tax you accordingly
I’d just buy a car you do like and look after it and enjoy it.
I’m sure times will change again, and cars will be exciting again… but we’re definitely in a bad time for cars.
That seems a bit synonymous with saying they’ve become “good”. And I don’t buy Autofridge or TopTemperature magazines, for fridges and ovens respectively.
Just like I no longer read any car reviews, because they’re pretty much all dull and we all know they are, we just pretend they’re not by finding vanishingly small differences to become excited over like they make a difference any more.
Yes Ferrari and Porsche are still a bit exciting, just like a Fridge that AI scans your food and tells Starmer if you’re eating green traffic light foods or red, and to NHS tax you accordingly
I’d just buy a car you do like and look after it and enjoy it.
I’m sure times will change again, and cars will be exciting again… but we’re definitely in a bad time for cars.
Character in cars is often some sort of flaw which we find endearing. Modern cars run like clockwork for the most part and development has converged - hence the lack of interest perhaps.
Dingu said:
That seems a bit synonymous with saying they’ve become “good”.
Yup. Examples of technology made before we have a chance to make it good are often more interesting. Steam trains are fascinating things, modern diesel-electrics are dull as hell. I'd still rather use a modern train to get to work.
I feel much the same, but I've put it down more to my age. I don't even flick through Autocar when I go to Tesco any more!
I grew up with manual RWD cars and they've all but disappeared. Having belatedly discovered N/A straight 6 BMWs in 2014 I'm on my 5th and 6th now and there are very few new cars I'd actually want now.
I don't like cross-overs or SUVs and have no reason to own one either, and as I don't like convertibles that rules MX5s out - apart from maybe the RFs.
Toyota GR86 is a good call, manual Supra, manual M2 and manual V8 Mustang and that's about it.
I don't get excited about supercars anymore as they all seem to have flappy-paddles which I just can't get excited about.
I'll never afford either of them but a Porsche Cayman GTS or 911T appeal. With a Lottery win a GMA T33 would be perfection!
I grew up with manual RWD cars and they've all but disappeared. Having belatedly discovered N/A straight 6 BMWs in 2014 I'm on my 5th and 6th now and there are very few new cars I'd actually want now.
I don't like cross-overs or SUVs and have no reason to own one either, and as I don't like convertibles that rules MX5s out - apart from maybe the RFs.
Toyota GR86 is a good call, manual Supra, manual M2 and manual V8 Mustang and that's about it.
I don't get excited about supercars anymore as they all seem to have flappy-paddles which I just can't get excited about.
I'll never afford either of them but a Porsche Cayman GTS or 911T appeal. With a Lottery win a GMA T33 would be perfection!
Mr Tidy said:
Toyota GR86 is a good call, manual Supra, manual M2 and manual V8 Mustang and that's about it.
I don't get excited about supercars anymore as they all seem to have flappy-paddles which I just can't get excited about.
Yep good shouts there. I don't mind convertibles so I'd add the ND MX5 to the list. I'd also add a GR Yaris and FL5 Type R. I'd have the 240i as a budget friendly alternative to the M2. I don't get excited about supercars anymore as they all seem to have flappy-paddles which I just can't get excited about.
I love my F56 JCW but not so keen on the new F66 sadly.
In terms of more premium cars, Alpine A110, Cayman 4.0 GTS, 911 ST. However, I'm not likely to be able to afford any of those any time soon.
To be honest I'm just going to do some tasteful mods to my F56 and hang on to it. Still a fairly modern car, but has lots of character. It's loud and silly. Something that has, by all accounts, become sanitised in later models and especially the latest F66. A common trend it would seem in the car world. Shame.
TameRacingDriver said:
Yep good shouts there. I don't mind convertibles so I'd add the ND MX5 to the list. I'd also add a GR Yaris and FL5 Type R. I'd have the 240i as a budget friendly alternative to the M2.
I love my F56 JCW but not so keen on the new F66 sadly.
In terms of more premium cars, Alpine A110, Cayman 4.0 GTS, 911 ST. However, I'm not likely to be able to afford any of those any time soon.
To be honest I'm just going to do some tasteful mods to my F56 and hang on to it. Still a fairly modern car, but has lots of character. It's loud and silly. Something that has, by all accounts, become sanitised in later models and especially the latest F66. A common trend it would seem in the car world. Shame.
Had an R56 MINI and loved it but it was rather problematic, I've often wondered if I would like an F56. Possibly a better mechanical package but the exterior and interior styling is a bit less appealing and has possibly lost a bit of character?I love my F56 JCW but not so keen on the new F66 sadly.
In terms of more premium cars, Alpine A110, Cayman 4.0 GTS, 911 ST. However, I'm not likely to be able to afford any of those any time soon.
To be honest I'm just going to do some tasteful mods to my F56 and hang on to it. Still a fairly modern car, but has lots of character. It's loud and silly. Something that has, by all accounts, become sanitised in later models and especially the latest F66. A common trend it would seem in the car world. Shame.
That new Nissan Z car looks fantastic (better than the Supra IMHO) but as we can't buy one here I didn't mention it. I guess of all the new BMWs, the M2 manual is the most appealing but I don't think that I liked it as much as the old M2 Comp, which I liked less than the pre-Comp M2, which I liked less than the 1M (you get the picture)!
A friend just ordered a new VW Id.7 Tourer. Ok, an EV estate with a 300 mile range is kind of interesting and I currently have a mk7 Golf Estate, so would probably quite like it but I asked him how much. Over 50k and that's the "short range" version! Difficult to get excited about a piece of "white goods" for 50k. He'll lease, so the list price might be irrelevant but in my head, a 50k budget on a new car should still get you into something more exciting than that.
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 21st November 23:00
white_goodman said:
Had an R56 MINI and loved it but it was rather problematic, I've often wondered if I would like an F56. Possibly a better mechanical package but the exterior and interior styling is a bit less appealing and has possibly lost a bit of character?
Yep, F56 infinitely better for reliability and build quality. Mine has the JCW Pro exhaust and K&N (will change to an Eventuri most likely) and it sounds really good. Mine had the heavy 18s, so I've swapped em out for lightweight 17s and got the Pro coilovers on the way. I think it will bring it very close to my R53 for character at that point. I think it looks pretty good and the interior is nice, and I'll be picking up some JCW Pro bits to enhance it further. I thought long and hard about spending the money but it got under my skin.Legislative pressure and the sheer cost of developing a dud all mean manufacturers play it safe and follow a set of rules that restrict or at least don’t reward creativity. Part sharing only speeds up the inevitable, where by all cars are the same, with brands distancing themselves by offering additional services or clothing lines.
I don’t find it hard to imagine that the skill set for developing, building, marketing and even looking after a car are so diverse that it is no longer financially responsible to try and be an expert at all. Instead you buy in the skills that are not core to you, hence these will be the same as other brands.
Add in a rush to EV and a table leveller of technology and the drivetrain of a car is now no longer a distinct variable tuneable to a brand.
All cars drive the same, look the same, impact us the same, hence we become desensitised to them and feel cheap logo changes and talk of colours is weak. In reality it is all they have.
I don’t find it hard to imagine that the skill set for developing, building, marketing and even looking after a car are so diverse that it is no longer financially responsible to try and be an expert at all. Instead you buy in the skills that are not core to you, hence these will be the same as other brands.
Add in a rush to EV and a table leveller of technology and the drivetrain of a car is now no longer a distinct variable tuneable to a brand.
All cars drive the same, look the same, impact us the same, hence we become desensitised to them and feel cheap logo changes and talk of colours is weak. In reality it is all they have.
Edited by markcoopers on Friday 22 November 08:23
I can't think of a single new car that excites me. Anything "normal" is too large, too ugly, too complicated and too expensive. Many "ordinary" cars have now been dragged into additional rate VED due to the high list price, so even if you get a massive discount or a really cheap lease deal you still get shafted by the tax man. Also, I like sleek, low slung, elegant looking cars and everyone's making SUVs and tall, blobby looking not-quite-an-SUV-but-nearly things.
Modern supercars aren't much better. Someone turned up in my street in a Ferrari F8 to pick his son up. Sat there revving the nuts off it to amuse the kids. The noise was weird as the revs wanged up and down... sort of rubbery, elasticky and artificial. No crispness, detail or tone... just weird. It sounded disappointing.
The whole car world seems to be merging into one massive blob of blandness.
Modern supercars aren't much better. Someone turned up in my street in a Ferrari F8 to pick his son up. Sat there revving the nuts off it to amuse the kids. The noise was weird as the revs wanged up and down... sort of rubbery, elasticky and artificial. No crispness, detail or tone... just weird. It sounded disappointing.
The whole car world seems to be merging into one massive blob of blandness.
Edited by MitchT on Friday 22 November 08:51
A bit left field here, but I think part of the reason is inflation.
An exclamation of "I'd never pay £lots for a XXXXXX" has become increasingly common.
The mental gymnastics required to appreciate that your £ doesn't buy you as much as it used to seem to trip up the moment people see an unfeasibly large number next to a relatively ordinary car, and we bypass reason and get straight to "f
k off". 
Even when you get to the supposedly more exciting end of the market, we've reached the point where a base spec 911 with a few 'essential' options costs the same as a GT3 from what seems like not that long ago (but in reality is probably 10-15 years ... maybe even more).
But the impact is probably felt hardest when reasonably boring cars are now selling for the sort of money that reasonably exciting ones were selling for just a decade ago.
That, combined with the fact legislation and buying habits have been making cars more boring generation after generation (more weight and driving 'aids', less pedals, cc's, noise and interaction), means that petrolheads are at the centre of a perfect storm where cars are getting less appealing (to us) and more expensive.
An exclamation of "I'd never pay £lots for a XXXXXX" has become increasingly common.
The mental gymnastics required to appreciate that your £ doesn't buy you as much as it used to seem to trip up the moment people see an unfeasibly large number next to a relatively ordinary car, and we bypass reason and get straight to "f
k off". Even when you get to the supposedly more exciting end of the market, we've reached the point where a base spec 911 with a few 'essential' options costs the same as a GT3 from what seems like not that long ago (but in reality is probably 10-15 years ... maybe even more).
But the impact is probably felt hardest when reasonably boring cars are now selling for the sort of money that reasonably exciting ones were selling for just a decade ago.
That, combined with the fact legislation and buying habits have been making cars more boring generation after generation (more weight and driving 'aids', less pedals, cc's, noise and interaction), means that petrolheads are at the centre of a perfect storm where cars are getting less appealing (to us) and more expensive.
I do agree, I don't think i'm particularly old at 43 but I have had the feeling for a while that cars made post about 2019 don't grab me and again it's not specifically an EV thing but even cars such as the new BMW M range and the Mercedes AMG range have gone off the boil for me.
I think it's probably partly do do with environmental legislation so manufacturers using smaller engines and partly do do with the design aspects, everything going touch screen and the touch screens being used seemingly looking like someone superglued an Ipad in to a car, no real thoughts on integration
I think it's probably partly do do with environmental legislation so manufacturers using smaller engines and partly do do with the design aspects, everything going touch screen and the touch screens being used seemingly looking like someone superglued an Ipad in to a car, no real thoughts on integration
Gastons_Revenge said:
Perhaps you're just getting old. Glib answer I know, but it seems to be a common theme with threads along these lines!
Perhaps but I'm the same age as my parents were in the 90s and I don't remember them eulogising about how much better cars were in the 60s/70s!I guess I was just hoping that I was wrong and someone would tell me about some hidden gems and explain why we've never had it so good!
Difficult when you drive an 8 year old, 100,000 mile car and for possibly the first time, you have no idea what newer car you would want to replace it with, as the direct replacement is tangibly worse. Our other vehicle is 3 years old but kind of "last generation" so I don't mind it but all the current generation vehicles that I have driven have just been really dull and annoying to interact with!
I saw an advert for the Vauxhall Grandland on TV last night and the very first thing it highlighted was the illuminated front logo. It went on to speak about 200+ high output LEDs. Nothing about any driving related niceties.
I've had a bee in my bonnet for some time about how trivial cars have become. Everything has an LED light - door handles, door cards, dashboard sections, bonnet shuts etc - as if that makes them more desirable. I think, in fact, there has been nothing more to add to the basic underlying mechanical package for some time now and so manufacturers have to resort to meaningless bells and whistles and differentiated styling (more chrome and more and more amazingly shaped and dazzling lights).
I own a 2006 Porsche 911 and a 2023 Audi S3. They're both nice cars and on the face of it capable of similar performance but the Porsche is a different beast altogether. The Audi is all bong this, ding that, ping the other. It feels like driving a computer game whereas the Porsche is involving and fun. For me cars peaked in the mid-2000s if not before, as at that point they were "modern" but had none of the artificial "enhancements" and "driving aids" that afflict modern cars. Also, not so many stupid illuminated things!!!
I've had a bee in my bonnet for some time about how trivial cars have become. Everything has an LED light - door handles, door cards, dashboard sections, bonnet shuts etc - as if that makes them more desirable. I think, in fact, there has been nothing more to add to the basic underlying mechanical package for some time now and so manufacturers have to resort to meaningless bells and whistles and differentiated styling (more chrome and more and more amazingly shaped and dazzling lights).
I own a 2006 Porsche 911 and a 2023 Audi S3. They're both nice cars and on the face of it capable of similar performance but the Porsche is a different beast altogether. The Audi is all bong this, ding that, ping the other. It feels like driving a computer game whereas the Porsche is involving and fun. For me cars peaked in the mid-2000s if not before, as at that point they were "modern" but had none of the artificial "enhancements" and "driving aids" that afflict modern cars. Also, not so many stupid illuminated things!!!
I live in an area with a lot of ‘tax savvy’ ( allegedly) folk of late. Seeing a Ferrari ( something or other ) or a Lamborghini ( which is actually an Audi Q7 with some Lamborghini badges really ) or a Mercedes ( thing with a V8 ), etc. etc. etc. is not in the least bit unusual, or interesting to me now. Most ‘supercar’ type stuff, that appears, would have me on the Google to tell what it was. Very rarely will a non ‘super’ new car, even stick in my memory, they really are just white goods, with various stickers that differ on them. Manufacturers don’t seem to care what they are churning out, and the result is dull dross, all (pretty much) platform sharing, with the only difference being the badge, and how much extra the mugs getting suckered into buying them, are willing to pay. Others mileage may vary, but I just can’t justify buying a brand new car anymore ( not that I ever did buy brand new anyway ). The rise of BEVs ( hopefully soon to be on the wane) doesn’t help. They’re all using exactly the same batteries and motors ( with some rare exceptions) that’s the ultimate suckers game.
Watch Harry's video on new cars, from 2024 we now have to have lane assist as standard on all cars and it can't be turned off with a single button it must require at least 2 clicks. The lane assist in my A7 is diabolical, I hate it, especially on narrow roads where the car is always trying to steer me into the verge or on (who would have thought) badly maintained roads where the system decides that a crack or rut is a white dividing line and yanks the car in an unexpected direction. Can you imagine pressing on in a nice Porsche or Ferrari and it suddenly decides to yank on the steering because of a phantom white line?
Modern cars have lost their appeal, I really can't think of a normal car (Aston, Porsche etc excluded) that makes me want to grab my chequebook. All this mandatory tech that nobody wanted has added to the weight and cost of all cars to such an extent it's beyond belief.
Modern cars have lost their appeal, I really can't think of a normal car (Aston, Porsche etc excluded) that makes me want to grab my chequebook. All this mandatory tech that nobody wanted has added to the weight and cost of all cars to such an extent it's beyond belief.
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