a Leaf in its Autumnal years
Discussion
I really want an EV in the fleet! For my main car i'm awaiting the tech settling down so I can invest in a car that can last a few years.
So, how about a cheap runaround for local only duties? An old Leaf that may only have 50 miles range left in its batteries.
3-4k gets a good looking car around 10 years old. what should I look out for? given the batteries will eventually die and the charging cable is obsolete I know I'm looking at a home charged dodo. £1k less gets you a 2011-12 model but I suspect moving up to 2015 is a wise move.
Any advice?
So, how about a cheap runaround for local only duties? An old Leaf that may only have 50 miles range left in its batteries.
3-4k gets a good looking car around 10 years old. what should I look out for? given the batteries will eventually die and the charging cable is obsolete I know I'm looking at a home charged dodo. £1k less gets you a 2011-12 model but I suspect moving up to 2015 is a wise move.
Any advice?
Anyone more knowledgeable please correct.
First "shape" Leaf.
There's the first version made in Japan until circa 2013.
The second version, same shape, made in Sunderland around 2014 onwards is much improved - the electrical running gear, heater efficiency etc so that's the "shed version" to go for.
It's essential to check these two versions of the first shape model out before buying.
We have a second version, 2014, 101k.
In ten years it's lost around 20% of battery.
Which means 85miles shown available when full.
Happy to do 65miles of reasonably economic driving without range concern.
In 101K miles - it's needed.
Tyres.
Electric @ 8p/kw
It does 5miles per kw - 40mpg equivalent = 65p gallon
No brakes.
No battery.
Nothing else.
It was serviced throughout the warranty period - meaning virtually just the pollen filter.
In terms of a "white goods" second / local / station car it's out on it's own.
Plus, some have a 3.3kw charging system, only a bit better than a granny charger.
Some have a 6.6kw charging system.
First "shape" Leaf.
There's the first version made in Japan until circa 2013.
The second version, same shape, made in Sunderland around 2014 onwards is much improved - the electrical running gear, heater efficiency etc so that's the "shed version" to go for.
It's essential to check these two versions of the first shape model out before buying.
We have a second version, 2014, 101k.
In ten years it's lost around 20% of battery.
Which means 85miles shown available when full.
Happy to do 65miles of reasonably economic driving without range concern.
In 101K miles - it's needed.
Tyres.
Electric @ 8p/kw
It does 5miles per kw - 40mpg equivalent = 65p gallon
No brakes.
No battery.
Nothing else.
It was serviced throughout the warranty period - meaning virtually just the pollen filter.
In terms of a "white goods" second / local / station car it's out on it's own.
Plus, some have a 3.3kw charging system, only a bit better than a granny charger.
Some have a 6.6kw charging system.
Edited by RGG on Wednesday 13th November 18:32
RGG said:
Anyone more knowledgeable please correct.
First "shape" Leaf.
There's the first version made in Japan until circa 2013.
The second version, same shape, made in Sunderland around 2014 onwards is much improved - the electrical running gear, heater efficiency etc so that's the "shed version" to go for.
It's essential to check these two versions of the first shape model out before buying.
We have a second version, 2014, 101k.
In ten years it's lost around 20% of battery.
Which means 85miles shown available when full.
Happy to do 65miles of reasonably economic driving without range concern.
In 101K miles - it's needed.
Tyres.
Electric @ 8p/kw
It does 5miles per kw - 40mpg equivalent = 65p gallon
No brakes.
No battery.
Nothing else.
It was serviced throughout the warranty period - meaning virtually just the pollen filter.
In terms of a "white goods" second / local / station car it's out on it's own.
Plus, some have a 3.3kw charging system, only a bit better than a granny charger.
Some have a 6.6kw charging system.
Thanks everybody. Sounds compelling. First "shape" Leaf.
There's the first version made in Japan until circa 2013.
The second version, same shape, made in Sunderland around 2014 onwards is much improved - the electrical running gear, heater efficiency etc so that's the "shed version" to go for.
It's essential to check these two versions of the first shape model out before buying.
We have a second version, 2014, 101k.
In ten years it's lost around 20% of battery.
Which means 85miles shown available when full.
Happy to do 65miles of reasonably economic driving without range concern.
In 101K miles - it's needed.
Tyres.
Electric @ 8p/kw
It does 5miles per kw - 40mpg equivalent = 65p gallon
No brakes.
No battery.
Nothing else.
It was serviced throughout the warranty period - meaning virtually just the pollen filter.
In terms of a "white goods" second / local / station car it's out on it's own.
Plus, some have a 3.3kw charging system, only a bit better than a granny charger.
Some have a 6.6kw charging system.
Edited by RGG on Wednesday 13th November 18:32
RGG - 5/kw sounds good for an old tech car. Nissan got it right!?
These are brilliant as a cheap and cheerful short range EV. Solid, reliable, roomy, comfortable etc - we’re on our fourth. The silence and smoothness of a limo with free tax and the equivalent of over 300mpg (Octopus GO at 8.5p/kWh) - what’s not to like? ;-)
I’d get Leafspy (pref Pro) so that you can see if there are any DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) as well as the SOH (State of Health) of the battery.
Degradation seems to have settled down at about 2% PA on these, a Leaf 24 had circa 22kWh usable when new so a 2014 would be about 18kWh usable now.
Ours has averaged 4.6 miles/kWh in the last 6 months, have seen over 80 from a tank when I’ve needed it.
I’d definitely get the later Sunderland built one (changeover was in 2013) as these had over 100 improvements, main one was said to be the battery chemistry. (early Japanese built ones had cream interior, big hump in the boot between struts, electronic handbrake)
I fancied a Tekna this time around - gains leather, LED lights, heated seats front and back, heated leather wheel, 360 cameras, 17” wheels, BOSE speakers. You want at least an Acenta IMHO as the base model (Visia) didn’t have a heat pump which helps with winter range, nor DC charging.
£3 - £4k gets a decent 24kWh with 11 bar battery (79.75 to 85% SOH) and not too many miles. £4.5k+ gets a 30kWh which would gain you about 20 miles range tho’ in general these had worse battery degradation than the 24. There is a pretty good FB group which has some bargains on there, that’s where I saw mine.
There are still plenty of CHAdeMO DC chargers out there, you might find you use it more than expected and venture furthur afield!
6.6kW on board charger is rare, 3.6kW fine for us, can easily fill the battery in the 5 hour Octopus GO cheap rate window (usually charge to 80% anyhow).
Good luck with the search!
PS I also wanted one registered pre April 1st 2017 as it’ll be £20 tax from April 2025 - EVs registered after that date will be £190 IIRC.
I’d get Leafspy (pref Pro) so that you can see if there are any DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) as well as the SOH (State of Health) of the battery.
Degradation seems to have settled down at about 2% PA on these, a Leaf 24 had circa 22kWh usable when new so a 2014 would be about 18kWh usable now.
Ours has averaged 4.6 miles/kWh in the last 6 months, have seen over 80 from a tank when I’ve needed it.
I’d definitely get the later Sunderland built one (changeover was in 2013) as these had over 100 improvements, main one was said to be the battery chemistry. (early Japanese built ones had cream interior, big hump in the boot between struts, electronic handbrake)
I fancied a Tekna this time around - gains leather, LED lights, heated seats front and back, heated leather wheel, 360 cameras, 17” wheels, BOSE speakers. You want at least an Acenta IMHO as the base model (Visia) didn’t have a heat pump which helps with winter range, nor DC charging.
£3 - £4k gets a decent 24kWh with 11 bar battery (79.75 to 85% SOH) and not too many miles. £4.5k+ gets a 30kWh which would gain you about 20 miles range tho’ in general these had worse battery degradation than the 24. There is a pretty good FB group which has some bargains on there, that’s where I saw mine.
There are still plenty of CHAdeMO DC chargers out there, you might find you use it more than expected and venture furthur afield!
6.6kW on board charger is rare, 3.6kW fine for us, can easily fill the battery in the 5 hour Octopus GO cheap rate window (usually charge to 80% anyhow).
Good luck with the search!
PS I also wanted one registered pre April 1st 2017 as it’ll be £20 tax from April 2025 - EVs registered after that date will be £190 IIRC.
Edited by danp on Thursday 14th November 11:14
I can help here too as I've owned a '64 reg Leaf from new.
- 1 - Do not buy one of the very earliest Japanese-built cars. On the face of it 'Japanese-built' sounds like a good thing, but they are to be avoided unless you want the absolute cheapest Leaf out there. They had an electronic handbrake, only one level of trim (So not Visia/Acenta/Tekna) and the heater was very inefficient. I think there were other disadvantages but I wouldn't wish to speculate.
- 2 - So you need a Sunderland-built one. That pretty much means '13 reg onwards, but the handbrake and very light interior trim will confirm where the car was built.
- 3 - My own experience tells me they don't go wrong and they don't rust. They do however suffer from laquer peel. In a decade an 80k miles I have needed to replace one wheel bearing outside of normal wear and tear. I am still on original disc/pads. Tyres last 20k-ish.
- 4 - Range depends on a number of factors. Outside temperature for sure, going up and down hills is a big factor too. Also, putting your foot down saps power. Even with my battery sat at around 80% of original capacity, I reckon I could cover 90 miles on a warm day on a flat road. However, in sub-zero temps, going entirely uphill with your foot down, it is entirely possible that 15-20 miles would be the limit. If I had to give an average figure for my car it would be 60 miles on a full charge.
- 5 - Get it on Octopus go and you're very close to free fuel. We do about 8k miles per year, and our electricity bill for the entire house is only £90/month. I have a British Gas Polar charger that I brought from the last house and installed at the new one. No doubt they can be had on eBay.
- 6 - Very few Visia trim cars out there, so ignore those. My guess is around 60/40 for the Acenta/Tekna trim. Tekna does give more goodies, but it's only heated seats that I miss in my Acenta spec car.
- 7 And finally, consider a second-gen car. The range is much improved, and they start at £7.5k rather than around £2.5k, so a big jump. However, resale value will be better so the cost of ownership shouldn't be much more if you don't mind weighing out the extra money. Whilst we do loads of local journeys, which is why we bought the car, I am starting to look at selling mine and upgrading. I find the EV experience to be great, and our RAV4 only leaves the house for longer journeys, trailer towing, or when the Leaf is also in use.
CABC said:
Some great advice that’s consistent from my own research too.
Not sure about a gen2, I think as longer range evs hit the second hand market the reduced range of all Leafs will hit them hard. At 2-5k they’re a bargain quality local errands option.
Post 2014 24kw it is then.
One last duplicate comment - as danp saidNot sure about a gen2, I think as longer range evs hit the second hand market the reduced range of all Leafs will hit them hard. At 2-5k they’re a bargain quality local errands option.
Post 2014 24kw it is then.
The 2014 onwards spec is Visia - Acenta - Teckna
The base Visia has old Japanese / previous electrical/battery tech in it.
It's the Acenta - Tekna that has the battery / charging improvements and are the ones to go for.
Depending on the journeys you do, spending more money nay be better value to get you a car that covers more of your journeys, and is likely to continue to meet your needs for more years to come.
If you want a Leaf to pay for itself, you have to 'sweat the asset' and get a lot of miles out of it, compared to just using your other car.
But then different people have different ways of looking at the costs of doing an extra journey in their car.
Example, matey down the road bought a cheap Leaf for £6k about 4 years ago, as an additional car.
It saves about 10p a mile on fuel compared to using their other cars.
It gets used heavily for shortish journeys and might rack up 12,000 miles a year.
It's now still worth a bit, so he's probably quids in.
But buying a Kona with decent range would allow getting rid of an IC car, doing more miles and probably quicker payback.
The Kona will have more years of expected battery life, and even when it's lost a chunk of range, it will still be a more capable car than the leaf ever was.
Somewhere between, there are i3's which might be tempting?
If you want a Leaf to pay for itself, you have to 'sweat the asset' and get a lot of miles out of it, compared to just using your other car.
But then different people have different ways of looking at the costs of doing an extra journey in their car.
Example, matey down the road bought a cheap Leaf for £6k about 4 years ago, as an additional car.
It saves about 10p a mile on fuel compared to using their other cars.
It gets used heavily for shortish journeys and might rack up 12,000 miles a year.
It's now still worth a bit, so he's probably quids in.
But buying a Kona with decent range would allow getting rid of an IC car, doing more miles and probably quicker payback.
The Kona will have more years of expected battery life, and even when it's lost a chunk of range, it will still be a more capable car than the leaf ever was.
Somewhere between, there are i3's which might be tempting?
OutInTheShed said:
Depending on the journeys you do, spending more money nay be better value to get you a car that covers more of your journeys, and is likely to continue to meet your needs for more years to come.
If you want a Leaf to pay for itself, you have to 'sweat the asset' and get a lot of miles out of it, compared to just using your other car.
But then different people have different ways of looking at the costs of doing an extra journey in their car.
Example, matey down the road bought a cheap Leaf for £6k about 4 years ago, as an additional car.
It saves about 10p a mile on fuel compared to using their other cars.
It gets used heavily for shortish journeys and might rack up 12,000 miles a year.
It's now still worth a bit, so he's probably quids in.
But buying a Kona with decent range would allow getting rid of an IC car, doing more miles and probably quicker payback.
The Kona will have more years of expected battery life, and even when it's lost a chunk of range, it will still be a more capable car than the leaf ever was.
Somewhere between, there are i3's which might be tempting?
Yes, project creep has developed in my own thoughts too. If you want a Leaf to pay for itself, you have to 'sweat the asset' and get a lot of miles out of it, compared to just using your other car.
But then different people have different ways of looking at the costs of doing an extra journey in their car.
Example, matey down the road bought a cheap Leaf for £6k about 4 years ago, as an additional car.
It saves about 10p a mile on fuel compared to using their other cars.
It gets used heavily for shortish journeys and might rack up 12,000 miles a year.
It's now still worth a bit, so he's probably quids in.
But buying a Kona with decent range would allow getting rid of an IC car, doing more miles and probably quicker payback.
The Kona will have more years of expected battery life, and even when it's lost a chunk of range, it will still be a more capable car than the leaf ever was.
Somewhere between, there are i3's which might be tempting?
However I think I’ll rein this in for now and keep it simple and for very local journeys only. Once I extend the use I’ll want a much nicer car, so I’ll wait until those become available. Things are moving so fast that today’s cars will be very dated in a couple of years. Things will settle down in a few years. My boring daily is only worth 15k but punches well above its weight. An equivalent ev is 2-3 times that. Then I looked at kw rates and realised the cost benefit is zero on public charging.
That said, I might change my mind! More range means less public charging of course.
CABC said:
That said, I might change my mind! More range means less public charging of course.
Regarding this, it is extremely rare that I charge my Leaf in public as it is a strictly local journeys car. We do loads of those. This of course helps preserve the battery too.As an aside, short journeys in a conventional care really hit fuel consumption. In an EV it makes not a jot of difference.
For long journeys I have a RAV4 diesel. Toyota so it won't go wrong, it has a towbar for many many tip runs in my trailer, and a cavernous boot.
For us Leaf/RAV is a perfect combo.
Turtle Shed said:
CABC said:
That said, I might change my mind! More range means less public charging of course.
Regarding this, it is extremely rare that I charge my Leaf in public as it is a strictly local journeys car. We do loads of those. This of course helps preserve the battery too.As an aside, short journeys in a conventional care really hit fuel consumption. In an EV it makes not a jot of difference.
For long journeys I have a RAV4 diesel. Toyota so it won't go wrong, it has a towbar for many many tip runs in my trailer, and a cavernous boot.
For us Leaf/RAV is a perfect combo.
We do quite a few journeys where an old leaf would have nowhere near sufficient range.
I think we'd just use the shed for those.
We do a lot of our miles as ~150 miles in a day. An EV with that kind of range could pay for itself much quicker.
If it can do the whole job of our long distance car wiith only say £500 a year of public charging, that is absolutely a tipping point.
MG5 for under 9 grand makes a Leaf look dear for what it does?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410205...
It will suffer over winter. I used mine for local journeys school runs. In the winter I’d plug it in and preheat when it was snowing or very cold temperatures.
When you’re doing the school run back and forth and nipping to the shops it’s great not having to scrape your car all the time.
I think they have pulled the app but you used to be able to use it to preheat the car eg at work.
But yeah fiited All season tyres and it excelled in the snow.
When you’re doing the school run back and forth and nipping to the shops it’s great not having to scrape your car all the time.
I think they have pulled the app but you used to be able to use it to preheat the car eg at work.
But yeah fiited All season tyres and it excelled in the snow.
update on thought process.
clearly a 5k Leaf 1 is the sensible choice.
But then.... a Leaf 2 has acceleration too. as well as range obviously (sensible hat).
Or a Tesla 3 for under 20k (massive project creep) offers all the tech, range and charging infrastructure. Has a few longevity & flexibility this one, even if it's not my first choice for a long term ev.
And an i3 looms very large for a local only car.
I must resist. keep it simple. A Leaf. Gen 2 - how many miles would put you off? as the 8k ones are naturally high mileage.
clearly a 5k Leaf 1 is the sensible choice.
But then.... a Leaf 2 has acceleration too. as well as range obviously (sensible hat).
Or a Tesla 3 for under 20k (massive project creep) offers all the tech, range and charging infrastructure. Has a few longevity & flexibility this one, even if it's not my first choice for a long term ev.
And an i3 looms very large for a local only car.
I must resist. keep it simple. A Leaf. Gen 2 - how many miles would put you off? as the 8k ones are naturally high mileage.
We’ve had a gen1 30kwh for 4 years, bought it at 49k, now at 91k
Pre heat still works, it doesn’t work on the 24kwh and it’s a monthly sub on the gen 2.
It’s been OK, the rear brakes are a crap design and I’m about to put another new set of handbrake cables on it after only being replaced a couple of years ago.
Battery degradation is poor compared to other ev’s.
I’d consider something like a Hyundai ioniq, despite a similar battery size they have much greater range than a leaf due to its amazing efficiency. Charges in about 20 minutes on CCS too
Pre heat still works, it doesn’t work on the 24kwh and it’s a monthly sub on the gen 2.
It’s been OK, the rear brakes are a crap design and I’m about to put another new set of handbrake cables on it after only being replaced a couple of years ago.
Battery degradation is poor compared to other ev’s.
I’d consider something like a Hyundai ioniq, despite a similar battery size they have much greater range than a leaf due to its amazing efficiency. Charges in about 20 minutes on CCS too
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