Coding for kids
Discussion
Got a 7 year old that would be ripe for learning to code, but as our ZX Spectrum stopped working a few decades ago I don't really know how to start him off.
What coding courses could he do on a tablet or laptop that aren't games focused? The only two I've found so far a based around building your own game, which I don't quite want him to get into yet.
Any websites/apps we should look at?
What coding courses could he do on a tablet or laptop that aren't games focused? The only two I've found so far a based around building your own game, which I don't quite want him to get into yet.
Any websites/apps we should look at?
Scratch is good and will (should) back up what they do in schools:
https://www.scratchjr.org/
https://scratch.mit.edu/
https://www.scratchjr.org/
https://scratch.mit.edu/
Small Talk was designed for this purpose and is pretty powerful.
A Raspberry Pi would be a great starter for ten and I think from memory Small Talk and Scratch are both on the default installation, but get it running on an external hard drive as SD cards don't last.
This site has pros and cons on scratch Vs small talk, although interestingly ST is only 15th (Scratch 18th) for a first programming language, so clearly things have moved on!
https://www.slant.co/versus/121/124/~smalltalk_vs_...
A Raspberry Pi would be a great starter for ten and I think from memory Small Talk and Scratch are both on the default installation, but get it running on an external hard drive as SD cards don't last.
This site has pros and cons on scratch Vs small talk, although interestingly ST is only 15th (Scratch 18th) for a first programming language, so clearly things have moved on!
https://www.slant.co/versus/121/124/~smalltalk_vs_...
ScotHill said:
Got a 7 year old that would be ripe for learning to code, but as our ZX Spectrum stopped working a few decades ago I don't really know how to start him off.
What coding courses could he do on a tablet or laptop that aren't games focused? The only two I've found so far a based around building your own game, which I don't quite want him to get into yet.
Any websites/apps we should look at?
If you want him to learn then you need to make it interesting for him...... The first thing i did after writing the obligatory 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 program was to try and write fun stuff and games.....What coding courses could he do on a tablet or laptop that aren't games focused? The only two I've found so far a based around building your own game, which I don't quite want him to get into yet.
Any websites/apps we should look at?
He's going to get pretty bored if the first task is to write a version of EXCEL...
Baldchap said:
although interestingly ST is only 15th (Scratch 18th) for a first programming language, so clearly things have moved on!
I can't find out how to get the ranked list on that website but I'd bet it would be aimed at adults too so stuff like Python would be up there.Will have a look at both of those, although a Pi sounds like it could be a Christmas present - I'd have to get up to speed on it before giving it to him though, don't want to be Bumbling Dad and have him lose interest before he's started!
super7 said:
If you want him to learn then you need to make it interesting for him...... The first thing i did after writing the obligatory 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 program was to try and write fun stuff and games.....
He's going to get pretty bored if the first task is to write a version of EXCEL...
Yeah I'm not about to get him to do my accounts for me, but games and programming languages have both moved on, it would probably be more like 10 PRINT "HELLO"; 20 alienplanet.target.launch.nuclear(turbo,maxpower)....He's going to get pretty bored if the first task is to write a version of EXCEL...
In my experience the coding isn't the biggest obstacle - there's lots of online advice available.
The biggest item to get over is setting up the programming environment. I'm currently messing about with Python (free, relatively simple syntax) and for me the hard bit is actually getting started. You need to decide whether to use Windows or (for most people) Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) [as much of the available help sort of assumes you are using Linux], Install software called IDLE (other "IDE's" are available). In Windows you need to be able to use the Command Prompt or PowerShell; in Linux it's the "Terminal".
For Python, as well as installing the program itself, you probably need to also install another program called "pip", which installs any addons you may need (similar to an "extension" on a browser).
For a seven year old, I'd hazard a guess that all the above would fall to you to do so they can concentrate on the actual coding & not get frustrated by just trying to get started.
I'm currently working on an idiot sheet for my own purposes as usually by the time I decide to do something new I've forgotten the startup procedures. You are welcome to a copy.
NB: Python & the Raspberry Pi work well together, so if you are thinking of going down the Raspberry Pi route, I'd recommend Python as a first language. The Pi OS is Linux based, so on a PC, WSL might be a better option than straight Windows.
The biggest item to get over is setting up the programming environment. I'm currently messing about with Python (free, relatively simple syntax) and for me the hard bit is actually getting started. You need to decide whether to use Windows or (for most people) Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) [as much of the available help sort of assumes you are using Linux], Install software called IDLE (other "IDE's" are available). In Windows you need to be able to use the Command Prompt or PowerShell; in Linux it's the "Terminal".
For Python, as well as installing the program itself, you probably need to also install another program called "pip", which installs any addons you may need (similar to an "extension" on a browser).
For a seven year old, I'd hazard a guess that all the above would fall to you to do so they can concentrate on the actual coding & not get frustrated by just trying to get started.
I'm currently working on an idiot sheet for my own purposes as usually by the time I decide to do something new I've forgotten the startup procedures. You are welcome to a copy.
NB: Python & the Raspberry Pi work well together, so if you are thinking of going down the Raspberry Pi route, I'd recommend Python as a first language. The Pi OS is Linux based, so on a PC, WSL might be a better option than straight Windows.
My kid is now 9. A couple of years ago I got him an RPi. The standard build comes with Scratch and Python environments installed and ready to go. We wrote a simple "asteroids" type game in Python and the boy has also done a fair bit of Scratch off his own bat as he was introduced to that at school.
Do not be put off by the gameyness of Scratch. It is teaching kids control structures and parallel, async, event-driven programming from day one.
Do not be put off by the gameyness of Scratch. It is teaching kids control structures and parallel, async, event-driven programming from day one.
Okay if Pi/Scratch works and is designed with children in mind then will go with that. Is there much guidance/handholding available, either through videos, books or tutorials?
Ideally I was looking for an enclosed environment that would teach them what they needed to know/do, like online learning modules, even from a web browser, but not found anything yet.
Ideally I was looking for an enclosed environment that would teach them what they needed to know/do, like online learning modules, even from a web browser, but not found anything yet.
The good bit about scratch is it doesn't get bogged down in the minutiae of brackets, semi colons and the like... and has sprite and sound handling and the like easily accessible and baked in. This means you can bang out an asteroids game in no time at all, then my tips there is to start tweaking it... why not have a machine gun? turbo movement etc, the kid will like that.
Python is pretty good for slightly older kids who don't quite need such quick and easy access to graphics, and can cope with doing all sorts in the future, so not always a stepping stone to something else.
Python is pretty good for slightly older kids who don't quite need such quick and easy access to graphics, and can cope with doing all sorts in the future, so not always a stepping stone to something else.
COBOL
I started as a trainee COBOL programmer in April 1995 and everyone said "what are you doing that for, it's a dead language!"
29yrs later I am still coding COBOL most days of the week.
Serious answer: my 9yo has been doing Scratch at school for the past 18 months and really enjoys it.
I started as a trainee COBOL programmer in April 1995 and everyone said "what are you doing that for, it's a dead language!"
29yrs later I am still coding COBOL most days of the week.
Serious answer: my 9yo has been doing Scratch at school for the past 18 months and really enjoys it.
ScotHill said:
Okay if Pi/Scratch works and is designed with children in mind then will go with that. Is there much guidance/handholding available, either through videos, books or tutorials?
Ideally I was looking for an enclosed environment that would teach them what they needed to know/do, like online learning modules, even from a web browser, but not found anything yet.
Are there no local companies that do kids lessons?Ideally I was looking for an enclosed environment that would teach them what they needed to know/do, like online learning modules, even from a web browser, but not found anything yet.
My sister set up a STEM-focussed company that teaches coding to children, either through school/afterschool club or via personal tuition (F2F or online), it's worth checking if you have an equivalent locally.
An Arduino kit or raspberry Pi kit with lights and motors and displays are ideal
Eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/Project-Starter-Tutorial-...
Coding and engineering all in one. Good thing, an arduino is so cheap they can fry them and you can replace them.
The other would be a BBC Micro with the book Assembly Language Programming for the BBC Micro by Ian Birnbaum
Got me started
Eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/Project-Starter-Tutorial-...
Coding and engineering all in one. Good thing, an arduino is so cheap they can fry them and you can replace them.
The other would be a BBC Micro with the book Assembly Language Programming for the BBC Micro by Ian Birnbaum
Got me started
A colleagues kid got very in to programming within Minecraft, coding within a game like that might be a good way of keeping it interesting. Personally I find it a lot easier learning something with a specific goal in mind rather than learning it abstractly...which is why I have many thousands of lines of code in a mod for Kerbal Space Programme 
ScotHill said:
Okay if Pi/Scratch works and is designed with children in mind then will go with that. Is there much guidance/handholding available, either through videos, books or tutorials?
Ideally I was looking for an enclosed environment that would teach them what they needed to know/do, like online learning modules, even from a web browser, but not found anything yet.
Scratch is absolutely designed for children, as is Swift Playgrounds. Scratch is used in most primary schools and would be a good start point - ask the school if they are? Ideally I was looking for an enclosed environment that would teach them what they needed to know/do, like online learning modules, even from a web browser, but not found anything yet.
Normally they start in Year 3 or 4.
Swift Playgrounds has loads of tutorials built in.
At 7 they don't need to learn a specific language, the need to understand the basics of coding in a fun way.
ScotHill said:
Got a 7 year old that would be ripe for learning to code,...
Does your 7 year old want to code or is it your idea?What does his school do in the way of teaching all things related to computers?
The BBC Micro Bit is a lot cheaper than a Raspberry Pi and has simple projects that may grab the attention of a 7 year old.
FlossyThePig said:
Does your 7 year old want to code or is it your idea?
He doesn't know coding exists yet but if he wants to play Minecraft he's going to learn to code. 
He played with an electronics set when he was younger so has a taste for that kind of stuff.Will look at the BBC device, looks simple but I guess it's good to have something else that isn't just on a monitor/screen.
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