KW V3 coilover, any experience here?

[k_m]

After 4000 km, I find my 2024 Pure a bit too lively on winding roads and would like to limit body roll and brake dive.

I originally wanted to install Life110 springs, but unfortunately they do not have TUEV approval, so they are illegal in Germany.

A legal alternative would be Eibach Pro springs, but these are still rather soft. The body roll could be reduced by installing A110S stabilizers, but the brake dive would remain almost unchanged. And the lowering is too much at -25 mm at the front, even with spacers it is still -19 mm, so I am afraid of bottoming out when driving over a pothole.

Another legal but more expensive option is the KW V3 coilover kit. Without a doubt the dampers play in a different league compared to the rather cheap OEMs, but the spring rates are very high, more like of an A110R.

I would be happy to hear any opinion on how the KW V3 handles B and C roads.

Thanks

[Jacobyte]

I think MP-Rezeau sell KW kits.
Could you get the kit then source TuV-approved springs of your preferred rates, or is mixing-and-matching not TuV-compatible?

[k_m]

Nope, unfortunately the only TUEV approved options are Eibach Pro springs with OEM dampers or the KW V3 coilover. Mixing is not an option,the TUEV certificate lists every little detail, like coil length, thickness, rates, markings, etc.

I could buy softer springs from KW which would fit but they have different markings.

Edited by k_m on Tuesday 22 October 14:03

[Debbiesd]

No direct experience of V3 on an Alpine but we used to work closely with them on a number of Porsche products with very good results , they are an excellent product.

The adjustment range is very good as well with a couple of clicks on any of the adjusters making a noticeable difference.

I don’t know about TUV but we are Nitron dealers and that’s what’s on my A110, again they are excellent, much better control with no loss of ride quality.

[BCA]

Worth contacting Rent4Ring for their recommendations.

[tony993]

Debbiesd said:

...we are Nitron dealers and that’s what’s on my A110, again they are excellent, much better control with no loss of ride quality.

Interesting. This sounds like what I'm looking for. Are you using one or the other of these Nitron kits with the 300/550 spring rates & their standard valving? I don't know what the Life AST road version spring rates are; if they're higher than the Nitrons' then I think I'd prefer to go with the Nitrons. Can the Nitrons be adjusted easily, with no jacking required? That would be another reason for me to go with the Nitrons, as I understand the car needs to be jacked to adjust the ASTs.

I suppose the Nitrons will require servicing (complete PITA + added expense), whereas I understand the ASTs are designed so servicing is not required.

[Jacobyte]

tony993 said:

Interesting. This sounds like what I'm looking for. Are you using one or the other of these Nitron kits with the 300/550 spring rates & their standard valving? I don't know what the Life AST road version spring rates are; if they're higher than the Nitrons' then I think I'd prefer to go with the Nitrons. Can the Nitrons be adjusted easily, with no jacking required? That would be another reason for me to go with the Nitrons, as I understand the car needs to be jacked to adjust the ASTs.

I suppose the Nitrons will require servicing (complete PITA + added expense), whereas I understand the ASTs are designed so servicing is not required.

AST Road are 50/90 nm (which equates to 286/514 lb/in)

[tony993]

Thanks, Jacobyte. That's good news. I think I'll go for the ASTs when I have time to get organised.

I suppose a more difficult question to answer would be: What are the spring rates on the base level MY22+ cars? It's not important. I'm just interested.

[k_m]

Spring rates Front/Rear in N/mm

Pure/GT: 30 / 60
Eibach Pro: 36 / 70 (+20 % / +16 %)
Life110: 43 / 80 (+43 % / +33 %)
S: 47 / 90 (+47 % / +50 %)
KW V3: 60 / 100 (+100 % / +66 %)

That's why I have some doubts about the KW V3 front springs.

[tony993]

Yes, probably a bit much if you're going to use your car through icy German winters.

I should think Ohlins could sell you a kit with a TUV cert, & then you can choose your own spring rates, & once you'd bought the kit (expensive) it probably wouldn't cost too much more if you were to send it back & say, I want harder/softer springs, or even different valving.

[k_m]

Ohlins and Intrax is beyond my budget and Nitron doesn't offer a TUEV certificate.

I might install the Life110 springs plus some spacers to get a lowering of just -12 or -14 mm. As they are black and look pretty much like the ORM springs it will not be a problem I am pretty sure, though it's not legal.

[Simon Owen]

k_m said:

Spring rates Front/Rear in N/mm

Pure/GT: 30 / 60
Eibach Pro: 36 / 70 (+20 % / +16 %)
Life110: 43 / 80 (+43 % / +33 %)
S: 47 / 90 (+47 % / +50 %)
KW V3: 60 / 100 (+100 % / +66 %)

That's why I have some doubts about the KW V3 front springs.

This is really helpful comps thanks, interesting that the AST Road are similar spring rates to the OEM S car, but clearly with much better valving. It would be really good to understand the AST damping spec/curves too, i.e. I'm assuming the AST's are linear spring rate but how has the valving been set up, digressive vs linear vs progressive etc. I've had some good experiences with Ohlins DFV for road use, it would be good to understand AST's approach with their valving technology/design at this price point.

[Debbiesd]

I will be listing on ebay shortly a set of Nitron R1

With their road set up of 400lb front, 650lb rear springs, complete with all paperwork having done less than 1500 road miles.literally brand new

Car has been sold back to Alpine and they wanted original dampers back on.

Will add a link once i get 5 mins to list them...

[k_m]

Is that realy the Nitron road setup? I am surprised, 400 front + 650 rear is even 15% harder than the KW V3.

[Debbiesd]

k_m said:

Is that realy the Nitron road setup? I am surprised, 400 front + 650 rear is even 15% harder than the KW V3.

TBF, just checked and that is the track set up ( dampers are the same between road track and race in R1 variant)
I didnt notice any poorer ride quality when i fitted them but MUCH better control, i can confirm after removal the ride is not quite as good on the standard damper and the control is much worse, ride quality is always a sign of a good damper, just go in a WRC car from recent times to experience unbelievable ride quality

[fridaypassion]

Sent you a PM would be interested in those

Are these spring rates really high enough? I guess new springs can be ordered or made up but I'm looking to make a quite aggressively set up fast road/track car and given the weight of the car I would have thought 600/700 minimum for a track spec damper. I run 800/900 on my VX220 track car and thats still road useable.

[Jacobyte]

fridaypassion said:

Sent you a PM would be interested in those

Are these spring rates really high enough? I guess new springs can be ordered or made up but I'm looking to make a quite aggressively set up fast road/track car and given the weight of the car I would have thought 600/700 minimum for a track spec damper. I run 800/900 on my VX220 track car and thats still road useable.

High enough for what? It depends what tracks you plan to drive on. Too stiff can be counterproductive on most UK circuits, as whilst you maintain theoretically the ideal geometry you can too easily lose out on traction and handling on bumpy areas and kerbs. You only need it stiff enough not to bottom out.

[fridaypassion]

Yes I understand that I have nearly 20 years in Lotus/Porsche/McLaren etc on track but the spring rates look quite soft to me. When you are pressing on and really leaning into the chassis you do get to need higher spring rates. I have sourced some Nitrons that are the "track" ones at 400/650 we'll see how we go. The spring stiffness is the primary control over body roll dont forget. I have the "S" ARBs to fit so we'll see how it goes. I am looking for a track spec really it will be road driven now and again but it's the track performance thats the main consideration. I can foresee ordering up some far heavier springs in the future but we shall see. As mentioned I run 800/900 on a 900 KG VX220 although we do have reasonably serious aero on that car which will suck up a bit of that weight but I would have thought the slightly heavier A110 would command higher spring rates for serious track use. 800/900 spring rates still allow for stable kerb climbing.

Edited by fridaypassion on Wednesday 30th October 19:10

[Jacobyte]

fridaypassion said:

The spring stiffness is the primary control over body roll dont forget.

I appreciate your background (mine is single seaters, saloon and GT racing since the '90s), but Anti-Roll Bars are the primary control over body roll.

S ARBs are spot-on for road and light track (I have them on my Pure). For your intended track-first application you may want to have some ARBs made that are stiffer than the S, thereby allowing the springs to do their job more efficiently.
Your Nitron setup will be excellent.

Edited by Jacobyte on Thursday 31st October 10:05

[fridaypassion]

Depends on the relative settings of your springs and ARBs for full PH pedantic response mode