EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
otolith said:
It's faintly irritating that they're so good at the usability stuff, as well as repeatedly nailing the efficiency (and thus range for a given weight) that they make all of the alternatives look a bit half baked - irritating because they have an embarrassing muppet at the helm. I'm probably going to hold off a bit longer, but I was having a proper look at the used market recently, and I just can't see past a Model 3.
It's really the benefit of Tesla and the Chinese to have started work years ahead of the others and to have approached the concept of the car in the 21st century with a 21st century mindset as opposed to carrying absolutely enormous mindset baggage from the previous century. You can see that some EV manufacturers are on the back foot precisely because they still think they're car manufacturers and not device manufacturers. Ultimately, if you approach the delivery of an EV on the assumption that it is nothing more than a white goods, mobile smart device then you end up with a better product than if you start with a 20th century car and then try and add in the 21st century bits.
Quite a simplistic and interesting view on why the US and European legacy car makers are now struggling:
https://youtu.be/LiamzUP6rjo?si=GGcZuG4TNnhmXP2n
In short, they were lazy and went for the quick buck while also treating the Chinese as they had the Africans, thinking they'd just waltz in and take over the market and syphon all the wealth out uninhibited.
There's an interesting remark made towards the end about how if they aren't willing to even attempt to compete against the Chinese in China they won't stand a chance when that have to compete against the Chinese in their domestic market. Something we are already seeing playing out.
At the moment the family load lugger is a Volvo V90 Cross Country. It's been ideal for, at times, moving five people and two large dogs. The boot is maybe slightly too small at 560 litres for the dogs particularly due to the sharp rake of the rear glass Volvo went with.
For ages I've been looking at Range Rovers around £45k as an upgrade to the Volvo. However for the majority of journeys an EV would make perfect sense. I could charge at home, I've got solar panels too, 95% of journeys wouldn't require charging away from home.
Maybe I need to look closer at the market but from previous research I've thought that my needs are ones that have been overlooked by EV makers.
For ages I've been looking at Range Rovers around £45k as an upgrade to the Volvo. However for the majority of journeys an EV would make perfect sense. I could charge at home, I've got solar panels too, 95% of journeys wouldn't require charging away from home.
Maybe I need to look closer at the market but from previous research I've thought that my needs are ones that have been overlooked by EV makers.
MightyBadger said:
There does seem to be a lot of people at the minute denouncing electric cars and going back to petrol.
Which would mean even more new people switching to EV wouldn't it as those first people aren't scrapping their EV when they get shot of it and go back to petrol. 
To be honest, you'd expect quite a few punters to rush out and grab the latest object as credit is just so easy and many punters are just so dumb. So you'd expect these folk who shop without engaging brain to then work out they can't use the product and not only go back to petrol but then whinge about it all being someone else's fault that they're dim. Back when Tesla's were the must have object for a champion consumer we had an office idiot buy one and then reveal that he couldn't charge it at his flat so had to drive out to Essex to his mum's house and run an extension lead from her front window. I suspect he went back to petrol.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 21st October 11:40
plfrench said:
Where?
Plenty of woes being told by electric car users all over youtube. Probably just people who should have bought a different car to start with.There was some interesting footage of people at a service station waiting for just two chargers, a scene if chaos. I doubt many experience this on here as you all home charge.
Well I can't wait for Monday. Held off as long as I could but faced with a potential £3k+ bill for something worth £1500 at best, not to mention potential borkage down the line it was the time to jump.
Insurance increase was an
mind.
Would have preferred to have held off another 18 months or a couple of years until some decent normal style 2/3 yr old estates filtered down to the market but can't win them all.
How to get rid of the old one. WBAC or maybe just bung it in auctions. Be a good buy for someone with a lift and a couple of weekends spare.
Insurance increase was an
mind.Would have preferred to have held off another 18 months or a couple of years until some decent normal style 2/3 yr old estates filtered down to the market but can't win them all.
How to get rid of the old one. WBAC or maybe just bung it in auctions. Be a good buy for someone with a lift and a couple of weekends spare.
plfrench said:
MightyBadger said:
There does seem to be a lot of people at the minute denouncing electric cars and going back to petrol.
Where?I don’t really have to care about depreciation as we run both cars through our businesses. Even without the massive tax advantages available here (VAT Refund, written off in first year against corp tax, no BIK), I’d still buy one over an ICE whether for business or private.
I’m of the opinion that anyone who doesn’t like EV has either tried the wrong one (one without a good charging network), or hasn’t tried one, or can’t afford one. If you can’t afford one then you will be able to soon as they’re only going to get cheaper and that’s a good thing.
It does make me laugh when people harp on about enjoying “the process” of changing gear, or the “emotion” of the sound an engine makes but then you ask them what they drive and it’s a 2.0tdi VAG. I could understand if it was a GT3 or some high revving V10, but the majority of nay sayers drive completely mundane cars and then insist an EV is a white good. Actually that’s exactly what a daily driver should be, hassle free and leaving space for a free head.
In general, EV are far less hassle to own than any ICE car as you just don’t have to care about things like whether there’s enough oil in it, if it needs a service, if you’ve checked the coolant etc. yawn.
The only use case for personal vehicles which I’m not convinced yet of EV is in touring motorbikes but I’m open to it. On the other hand, MX/Enduro is an almost perfect EV use case IMO - no maintenance just charge and go, clean it at the end of the day and forget about it. Same for scooters/local transport, a great application of EV.
This technology is getting better every week. If you think it doesn’t work for you now that’s fine, but it will soon.
MightyBadger said:
Plenty of woes being told by electric car users all over youtube. Probably just people who should have bought a different car to start with.
There was some interesting footage of people at a service station waiting for just two chargers, a scene if chaos. I doubt many experience this on here as you all home charge.
Even when I don't home charge, I go to a charger which I can see has plenty of free capacity. They all report their status these days, and if your car satnav doesn't report it then apps like ABRP and ZapMap do. There was some interesting footage of people at a service station waiting for just two chargers, a scene if chaos. I doubt many experience this on here as you all home charge.
From a technical standpoint it's a solved problem, except where there is a very limited number of rapid chargers in a given area in which case an EV driver is potentially still a bit buggered. It's never happened to me, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
rainmaker said:
You are better off charging later on in your journey TBH, the car will charge a lot quicker with a lower state of charge.
Not from a logistics perspective for me. I'd prefer to sail on by the favoured stopping point of the masses on a holiday run. I don't mind not getting the quickest recharge rate but what I do aim to avoid at all times is anywhere the masses are heading towards. So when heading to Cornwall in summer when loads of others are, I refill with petrol miles before most are hitting quarter full and thinking about stopping. I'd definitely do the same with electricity. And the joy of charging eventually will be that every motorway exit will offer a charging solution within a mile or so and that will mean never needing a motorway services hole.
charltjr said:
Even when I don't home charge, I go to a charger which I can see has plenty of free capacity. They all report their status these days, and if your car satnav doesn't report it then apps like ABRP and ZapMap do.
From a technical standpoint it's a solved problem, except where there is a very limited number of rapid chargers in a given area in which case an EV driver is potentially still a bit buggered. It's never happened to me, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
Im glad you have not experienced it, would be a ball ache.From a technical standpoint it's a solved problem, except where there is a very limited number of rapid chargers in a given area in which case an EV driver is potentially still a bit buggered. It's never happened to me, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
There is a video of chaos in realtime in autoalexs video, amusing to say the least.
MightyBadger said:
jonathan_roberts said:
This technology is getting better every week. If you think it doesn’t work for you now that’s fine, but it will soon.
It's not a case of 'the technology doesn't work for me', Im sure the tech is great. I could charge at home or work, just prefer old ICE.MightyBadger said:
Im glad you have not experienced it, would be a ball ache.
There is a video of chaos in realtime in autoalexs video, amusing to say the least.
It is an entertaining video, clearly Alex chose the very worst example of an electric car, apologies I can't remember the model other than Renault and I know it's not the Zoe, but still telling the issues he had which I can see a lot of drivers having that don't choose Tesla for an EVThere is a video of chaos in realtime in autoalexs video, amusing to say the least.
Jamescrs said:
but still telling the issues he had which I can see a lot of drivers having that don't choose Tesla for an EV
Yes indeed, I have noticed that on a lot of videoes.I have not seen many other evs that have moon miles apart from Teslas, It seems their batteries don't degrade that much unlike some other evs.
Setting aside (if one can) the rhetoric from the ICE industry and those countries pulling oil out of the ground, it comes down to having the correct tool for the job, surely?
I drive a 9 year old ICE (E63 Estate) that is a perfect load-lugger and holiday car, and we have a EV (our 2nd) - an ID3 that is exceptionally good at just getting us around. Easy to drive, easy to park, cheap as chips to run, quick if you need it.
No one is being forced to drive ICE or EV or Hybrid just yet, so pick what suits and don't decry any other choice as "complete madness"?
- Not fortunate enough to have off-road parking? EV probably isn't for you, yet.
- Drive several hundred miles daily (seems to be 100's who do....) EV probably isn't for you
MRRP mark-downs and corresponding depreciation of used stock means EV's are far more accessible than just 3 years ago, price parity can only be a good thing in my view and the price corrections resplendant of the industry-wide price gouging since 2020.
I drive a 9 year old ICE (E63 Estate) that is a perfect load-lugger and holiday car, and we have a EV (our 2nd) - an ID3 that is exceptionally good at just getting us around. Easy to drive, easy to park, cheap as chips to run, quick if you need it.
No one is being forced to drive ICE or EV or Hybrid just yet, so pick what suits and don't decry any other choice as "complete madness"?
- Not fortunate enough to have off-road parking? EV probably isn't for you, yet.
- Drive several hundred miles daily (seems to be 100's who do....) EV probably isn't for you
MRRP mark-downs and corresponding depreciation of used stock means EV's are far more accessible than just 3 years ago, price parity can only be a good thing in my view and the price corrections resplendant of the industry-wide price gouging since 2020.
krisdelta said:
Setting aside (if one can) the rhetoric from the ICE industry and those countries pulling oil out of the ground, it comes down to having the correct tool for the job, surely?
I drive a 9 year old ICE (E63 Estate) that is a perfect load-lugger and holiday car, and we have a EV (our 2nd) - an ID3 that is exceptionally good at just getting us around. Easy to drive, easy to park, cheap as chips to run, quick if you need it.
No one is being forced to drive ICE or EV or Hybrid just yet, so pick what suits and don't decry any other choice as "complete madness"?
- Not fortunate enough to have off-road parking? EV probably isn't for you, yet.
- Drive several hundred miles daily (seems to be 100's who do....) EV probably isn't for you
MRRP mark-downs and corresponding depreciation of used stock means EV's are far more accessible than just 3 years ago, price parity can only be a good thing in my view and the price corrections resplendant of the industry-wide price gouging since 2020.
We've a 2014 diesel Golf as a bit of a weekday runabout and to be honest if i was changing it to something a bit more up the money i honestly cant see why i wouldnt go EV. An ID.3 can be bought for less than the equivalent ICE Golf and it'll cost far less to run. I'd get an Approved Used one with a couple of years warranty.I drive a 9 year old ICE (E63 Estate) that is a perfect load-lugger and holiday car, and we have a EV (our 2nd) - an ID3 that is exceptionally good at just getting us around. Easy to drive, easy to park, cheap as chips to run, quick if you need it.
No one is being forced to drive ICE or EV or Hybrid just yet, so pick what suits and don't decry any other choice as "complete madness"?
- Not fortunate enough to have off-road parking? EV probably isn't for you, yet.
- Drive several hundred miles daily (seems to be 100's who do....) EV probably isn't for you
MRRP mark-downs and corresponding depreciation of used stock means EV's are far more accessible than just 3 years ago, price parity can only be a good thing in my view and the price corrections resplendant of the industry-wide price gouging since 2020.
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