Vantage 2020 Hero (manual)

[Sutitem]

Hi all,

Since this is my first post here, I think a short introduction is due. I bought a 2020 Vantage Hero last year. Before that, I always drove manual cars, including two Mustangs, the last one being a 2020 Bullitt. Much was said about the manual gearbox of the Bullitt, which used the older MT82, and many disliked it for being too raw but I just loved it.

I decided to buy the Hero because it came with a good package and was one of the few manual options among premium cars that I could find. However, it has been a disaster, to the point where I'm seriously considering giving up.

The car has been to Aston Martin dealerships many times, and there's always a new issue. There was a service bulletin related to the gearshift (which Aston Martin Savenooks "missed" while the car was still under warranty, leaving me to pay for it), then there was air in the system and misalignment of the gearbox cables. Despite all these visits to Aston Martin, the gearbox is still a disaster. I've driven enough manual cars to know that what's happening isn't normal, despite being told this gearbox is complicated. I can't engage gears properly, and very often I have to force the gears in so hard that it feels like something might break. At that point, I either have to try a different gear or allow the car to roll back a bit to get them to engage. This just can't be normal for a car of this caliber or any other car really.

I've also had a few other issues that make me question the quality of these cars, but that's a topic for another day. I have seen other posts about this car/gearbox issues, but I want to know if anyone else is experiencing the same problems.

Many thanks.

Edited by Sutitem on Tuesday 15th October 18:13

[Jon39]

Welcome Sutitem.

I am confused.

Some manuals were offered for the 2017 Vantage V12S ('The manual is a new 7-speed unit with a “dogleg” configuration, where switching from first to second gear requires moving into the adjacent slot of the H-pattern. This is better for days at the track when shifting between second and third is much more frequent than shifting between first and second').

I had (presumably mistakenly) thought that all the Mercedes-Benz engine Vantage cars are autos.

[AMRicardo]

The manual was indeed offered for a limited time in the 2C Vantage.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2020-as...

Its the same box as the VH era V12 Vantage S - the 7 speed dogleg Graziano.

I can’t however relate or help with the OP’s post, but what he describes doesn’t sound at all normal.

[M1AGM]

Jon39 said:

Welcome Sutitem.

I am confused.

Some manuals were offered for the 2017 Vantage V12S ('The manual is a new 7-speed unit with a “dogleg” configuration, where switching from first to second gear requires moving into the adjacent slot of the H-pattern. This is better for days at the track when shifting between second and third is much more frequent than shifting between first and second').

I had (presumably mistakenly) thought that all the Mercedes-Benz engine Vantage cars are autos.

Some cars were made with the 7-speed dogleg box, called AMR Hero models. Sorry OP cannot help other than to say that the car I tested did not have the issues you are experiencing. The box was a bit tricky on the gates as they are known to be, but it slipped between the ratios without issue.

[Minglar]

I have no experience of using the seven speed dog leg manual box myself, but I distinctly remember APs pledge and the “Hero” cars. If my memory serves me well the gear box first appeared in the AMR “59” version of the previous gen Vantage (with a rather hideously shaped gear lever) followed by the “Hero” scheme, which to all intents and purposes was just a tarted up version of the standard car. The gearbox became an option in the bog standard model too, although the take up was incredibly low and it was quietly phased out not long after AP left and LS took the reins. Imho the automatic gearbox suited the previous gen Vantage really well, and although the idea of a manual box sounded like a hark back to the old days in practice fitment was difficult to engineer, and the torque output had to be lowered. As far as I know this application was the only time an AMG V8 was ever mounted to a manual gearbox, although I may be wrong on that. As mentioned above, the problems you are experiencing do not sound normal to me either. The AM PH resident expert on the seven speed dog leg manual is Adam so hopefully he will see this thread and offer his expert advice. OP sorry to hear of your problems with this car. It must be incredibly frustrating for you. BRM.

[franki68]

I have the 7 speed dog leg but in a v12vs , no issues with it aside from it takes time to get used to , it sounds like yours is seriously faulty .

[BiggaJ]

As far as I know, most (if not all) of the AMR and HERO cars were manual in the AMG engined cars. The situation the OP finds themselves in certainly seems odd. If there were regular issues with the 7 speed box we would be hearing all sorts of tales by now. I thought it was a pretty robust and reliable gearbox.

It appears this box has more than it's fair share of problems, I would be taking it up with the supplying dealer, if you weren't the first owner I would also be trying to get a resume of the work the car had done prior to ownership, this may show the issues were being experienced by the previous owner and why they moved the car on. This would also give more weight the the OP's argument which surely must be heading towards the car not being 'fit for purpose' under trades descriptions.

As it stands the dealer appears to have seen this car on more than one occasion for the same problem which would also add weight to the above.

[mencan]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the comments.

This doesn’t seem like a normal situation at all, and I can't accept that this is how an Aston Martin manual gearbox should work. Multiple dealerships have told me that the gates are tricky, which I understand. Missing a few gears is fine, that’s just part of getting used to a new gearbox. The real issue is that I can't engage gears at all sometimes -they just seem stuck, almost as if something is blocking the cogwheels or something else moved around.

Honestly, I feel like I’m reaching the end of the road with this.

I've attached two short videos that show the issue to some extent, though it’s actually much worse than it appears. (I'm actually not allowed to post links just yet. I added them to YouTube (Gearbox issues #astonmartin #vantage #hero #gearbox #manual)

Many thanks,
Marco

[Jon39]

mencan said:

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the comments.

This doesn’t seem like a normal situation at all, and I can't accept that this is how an Aston Martin manual gearbox should work. Multiple dealerships have told me that the gates are tricky, which I understand. Missing a few gears is fine, that’s just part of getting used to a new gearbox. The real issue is that I can't engage gears at all sometimes -they just seem stuck, almost as if something is blocking the cogwheels or something else moved around.

Honestly, I feel like I’m reaching the end of the road with this.

I've attached two short videos that show the issue to some extent, though it’s actually much worse than it appears. (I'm actually not allowed to post links just yet. I added them to YouTube (Gearbox issues #astonmartin #vantage #hero #gearbox #manual)

Many thanks,
Marco

If people who are familiar with the 7 speed manual dogleg gear change, say yours does not seem right, but dealers are telling you it is normal, then it appears bringing it to the attention of Aston Martin Customer Services is your next step.

Ownership of an Aston Martin for most is a delight. Such a shame that your experience has been spoilt by a gear change.

[OLDBENZ]

franki68 said:

I have the 7 speed dog leg but in a v12vs , no issues with it aside from it takes time to get used to , it sounds like yours is seriously faulty .

I also have the manual 7 speed box in a 2016 v12vs and likewise have no issues with it (other than (i) as the other owner says it does take time to get used to and (ii) an AMShift display issue where the dash display occasionally indicated the wrong gear which was sorted out under warranty). In your position I would book the car into Works Service to take a look at. A shame you are no longer under warranty but if there is found to be a problem the factory could possibly assist as I cannot imagine there are many 2020 cars already out of warranty.

It looks to me from your YouTubes that there may be a problem with the linkage leading to a lack of self-centring. If you look at the Harry's Garage review on YouTube of the Aston Martin Vulcan Harry Melcalfe complains (@around 9.30) that the Vulcan has slop in the gear lever. The NP Vanquish has a completely different automated manual gearbox but I was put off the factory stick-shift conversion when I drove an example as I found the gearstick lacked self-centring (which I also found on the Callum re-gen version I was also lucky enough to drive). Suffice it to say, I have kept my 2007 Vanquish S on paddles.

Good luck and maybe let us know how you get on.

[volvodrummer]

Sorry to hear this. I test drove and passed on a manual AM6 Vantage in 2021. I have been after one ever since. I'm sorry to report that having spoken to someone with very intimate knowledge (all I'll say) I was advised to pass unless I REALLY had to have a manual. There are known issues with clutch wear, and shift engagement/quality etc. "There's a reason we don't offer them any more".

[mencan]

volvodrummer said:

Sorry to hear this. I test drove and passed on a manual AM6 Vantage in 2021. I have been after one ever since. I'm sorry to report that having spoken to someone with very intimate knowledge (all I'll say) I was advised to pass unless I REALLY had to have a manual. There are known issues with clutch wear, and shift engagement/quality etc. "There's a reason we don't offer them any more".

That's not what I wanted to hear, but it does make sense. I've read complaints about these cars here and there, but I didn't realize the issue was this widespread. I feel like the best option now is to take a loss and change cars before the problem gets worse. It's really disappointing, and I regret not going for the Porsche 718 GT4, which has a great manual gearbox. I could try escalating this to Aston Martin Lagonda, but if it's a design issue, as it seems to be, all I'd be doing is delaying the inevitable.

Since I bought this car (December 2023 with just 7,500 miles), it's been issue after issue. Three months after buying it, I started having problems with the driver's side window sensor not operating properly in rain conditions. The gearbox has been a problem almost since I bought it, and Aston Martin Sevenoaks initially said there was no issue. They ended up charging a lot to replace faulty parts, but after driving it in the rain again, the sensor they replaced is malfunctioning again. On top of that, the rattle from the air vent they replaced is also back.

Additionally, I'm now dealing with issues like the driver's seat squeaking a lot, the sun visor not holding, and the outdated infotainment system showing some strange "filter" effect on the screen. This is not what I expected from Aston Martin, but in hindsight, I should have stayed away from anything with their name on it, even though Aston Martin F1 is really just a branding thing.

Edited by mencan on Wednesday 16th October 21:05

[volvodrummer]

mencan said:

That's not what I wanted to hear, but it does make sense. I've read complaints about these cars here and there, but I didn't realize the issue was this widespread. I feel like the best option now is to take a loss and change cars before the problem gets worse. It's really disappointing, and I regret not going for the Porsche 718 GT4, which has a great manual gearbox. I could try escalating this to Aston Martin Lagonda, but if it's a design issue, as it seems to be, all I'd be doing is delaying the inevitable.

Not what I wanted to hear either. Sorry if you're holding the proverbial hot potato, man. I was a little leery from the get-go when AM claimed that the manual cars were detuned from the autos because there was less weight. Sounded to me like the gear box and diff weren't up to playing with the AMG V8. Seems that with the recent Valour/specials they have a better fitment using the 6spd box. I hope that lesson is learned if they ever decide to offer the manual in a Vantage again : (

That said, I did love the brand new car I drove back in '21. I found it great when fresh with 4 miles on the odo.

[LTP]

@Sutitem...or mencan.

I have driven manual Astons, but never the 7-speed manual, so I don't have direct experience. However, reading this thread, I'm still not sure whether you have a faulty gearbox, or whether the mechanical nature of the Aston Graziano gearbox doesn't suit you, and my advice would be to find out before you take the radical step of selling a car.

I appreciate you've taken the car back to a dealer several times, but there is plenty of experience on here of some dealers who will say TADTS (They all do that, Sir) as an alternative to doing their job. If I could make a couple of suggestions:

• You don't say where you are in the UK, but, as has already been suggested, book an appointment with Aston Martin Works in Newport Pagnell and ask them to assess your gearbox. Tell them you are extremely unhappy with the change quality and are thinking of leaving the brand and you need to be assured that there is nothing wrong with it.
• Ask on here if there's any other PH'er with a 7-speed gearbox who is prepared to meet, so you can assess their gearbox and they can opine on yours.

I will say, having watched your YouTube video, it didn't look that bad to me. but, as you said, it's worse in reality. The VH-era Aston gearboxes (6- and 7-speed) are known for their "mechanical" nature, which some find a engaging, but a Mk1 Ford Escort they ain't. If you want snicky, finger-tip changes through the gate then you'll probably be disappointed.

If you'll indulge me, I'll recount a personal anecdote of how an Aston manual gearbox nearly had me fail my Level 3 Aston Martin driving assessment - those who tire of my ramblings can stop reading now.

I have grown up in the UK driving manual cars. Like many of my age I learned to drive in them, drove many different cars as part of my jobs and through choice (the long list of cars I've owned is in my profile). So I'm conceited enough to believe I can master any gearbox and drive it smoothly. I was contemplating buying, and had a deposit on, a manual Vantage before I decided to go with the SSII - for reasons. I know the dog-leg 7 speed is different to the 6-speed I would have bought.

Now to the anecdote. I took myself off down to Millbrook for the driving assessment, and the car supplied was an old, LHD manual 6-speed DB9. I've driven many LHD cars when on assignment in Europe over the years, but mostly automatics - this is important to the tale, as my right hand and arm does not have the "muscle memory" that my left has gained over the years, so it's effectively inexperienced. The 6-speed Aston box is very heavily spring-biased to the 3-4 plane, to the point where I have been advised if changing from 2 to 3 (or 5 to 4), don't try to "steer" the gearshift through the gate, just push it out of gear, let it spring to the 3-4 plane itself (taking your hand with it), then engage the gear you want. So I'm driving this ratty old development LHD DB9 briskly up the hill route at Millbrook to demonstrate I'm safe to be allowed out in a prototype at speeds up to 140 mph and I'm occasionally but consistently grabbing the wrong gear (usually 4th rather than 2nd as I approach the top hairpin) as my right hand struggles to come to terms with the gearshift's spring bias, and I can almost feel the eyebrows of the ex-racing driver in the passenger seat approaching his hairline every time I miss a shift. The denouement is that, despite this, I managed to scrape a pass and didn't have to go back to the office to be mocked.

So why have I bored you with tales of a LHD 6-speed when you have a RHD 7-speed? Because the gearbox in an Aston can take some getting used to. In your video you show the gearshift apparently not wanting to move easily into the 6-7 plane and that's exactly what I'd expect of the 'box from my experiences of the 6-speed. Even on the 6-speed there's always the worry if you push too hard across the gate against the spring to get into 1st you'll end up in reverse, until you get used to it.

I think you owe it to yourself to be certain if your gearbox is faulty. Then, if you (probably) find that it isn't, only you can decide if you can be bothered to learn to drive it.

typo and options for OP's name added as I'm not sure which

Edited by LTP on Thursday 17th October 10:20

[Riddochg]

Can I suggest calling James at David Appleby. Aston specialist. What he doesn’t know isn’t worth knowing! Good luck.