First time supercar buyer (812)
Discussion
I‘ve always wanted a Ferrari and always wanted a V12 engined car. I am finally in a financial position to spend 200-220k on a 812.
„Toy“ car is currently an M8 and I expect I‘d be using the 812 in a similar way. Once a week commute to London, once a week weekend drive around Surrey. Very occassional trip further, Cotswolds or Dorset etc. The ownership would generally be more about scratching that decades-old itch, before these kind of cars are made illegal or prohibitively expensive to own.
Realistically I‘ll keep the car for 1-1.5 years, then sell on.
What‘s the reality of living with and buying/selling a car like this?
(1) does it attract a lot of unwanted attention?
(2) how much should I be prepared to lose when selling in say 12-18 months?
(3) is owning a Ferrari much different from owning a 70-100k Porsche/BMW? E.g. do you have to be particularly careful where you park? Do you use a regular car wash or some „premier“ one?
(4) should I go for 1 previous owner cars necessarily or would 2 or even 3 be fine, considering I‘ll be selling it in the near future?
I suspect the 1 year total cost (including depreciation, dealer spread, insurance and other bits) will be in the tens of thousands; I‘m prepared to spend that to scratch that itch, but then I want the least amount of hassle possible. I have the funds, but I definitely don‘t have much spare time and want no more hassle than owning a regular sports car (911 etc) would entail.
DB11 is the only alternative I‘m considering. Other than that, for pure driving enjoyment on B roads, Alpine A110 is the car I‘ll buy next, after this purchase - I‘ve rented one for a weekend once and loved it. I just didn‘t love that 4 pot engine sound and want to own a v12 at some point.
Any tips or views are welcome! In particular suggestions on 812 ownership which I may not have realised just yet, having only owned „normal“/premium cars (but not supercars)
„Toy“ car is currently an M8 and I expect I‘d be using the 812 in a similar way. Once a week commute to London, once a week weekend drive around Surrey. Very occassional trip further, Cotswolds or Dorset etc. The ownership would generally be more about scratching that decades-old itch, before these kind of cars are made illegal or prohibitively expensive to own.
Realistically I‘ll keep the car for 1-1.5 years, then sell on.
What‘s the reality of living with and buying/selling a car like this?
(1) does it attract a lot of unwanted attention?
(2) how much should I be prepared to lose when selling in say 12-18 months?
(3) is owning a Ferrari much different from owning a 70-100k Porsche/BMW? E.g. do you have to be particularly careful where you park? Do you use a regular car wash or some „premier“ one?
(4) should I go for 1 previous owner cars necessarily or would 2 or even 3 be fine, considering I‘ll be selling it in the near future?
I suspect the 1 year total cost (including depreciation, dealer spread, insurance and other bits) will be in the tens of thousands; I‘m prepared to spend that to scratch that itch, but then I want the least amount of hassle possible. I have the funds, but I definitely don‘t have much spare time and want no more hassle than owning a regular sports car (911 etc) would entail.
DB11 is the only alternative I‘m considering. Other than that, for pure driving enjoyment on B roads, Alpine A110 is the car I‘ll buy next, after this purchase - I‘ve rented one for a weekend once and loved it. I just didn‘t love that 4 pot engine sound and want to own a v12 at some point.
Any tips or views are welcome! In particular suggestions on 812 ownership which I may not have realised just yet, having only owned „normal“/premium cars (but not supercars)
if you want the least hassle, then buy from a dealer. Most expensive for sure, but they will take care of you - customer service at dealerships is really good in my opinion and they will also invite you to events etc which imo enhances the ownership experience.
I do think though that 1-1,5 years will cost you a lot as an "experience" - ideally you keep those cars longer as over time the annual cost decreases (spread). It is not easy to sell a car like that privately and if you sell it via a dealer, it will cost you.
or buy the cheapest car privately and roll the dice - but it needs to be much cheaper than a dealer car imo (esp if no warranty included)
good luck
I do think though that 1-1,5 years will cost you a lot as an "experience" - ideally you keep those cars longer as over time the annual cost decreases (spread). It is not easy to sell a car like that privately and if you sell it via a dealer, it will cost you.
or buy the cheapest car privately and roll the dice - but it needs to be much cheaper than a dealer car imo (esp if no warranty included)
good luck
pmn3 said:
Realistically I‘ll keep the car for 1-1.5 years, then sell on.
What‘s the reality of living with and buying/selling a car like this?
(1) does it attract a lot of unwanted attention?
(2) how much should I be prepared to lose when selling in say 12-18 months?
(3) is owning a Ferrari much different from owning a 70-100k Porsche/BMW? E.g. do you have to be particularly careful where you park? Do you use a regular car wash or some „premier“ one?
(4) should I go for 1 previous owner cars necessarily or would 2 or even 3 be fine, considering I‘ll be selling it in the near future?
I suspect the 1 year total cost (including depreciation, dealer spread, insurance and other bits) will be in the tens of thousands; I‘m prepared to spend that to scratch that itch, but then I want the least amount of hassle possible.
1) Depends what you mean by unwanted? If it’s schoolboys and 50yo blokes then yes. If it’s plod or criminals and vandals then it depends on where you park it and how you drive it.What‘s the reality of living with and buying/selling a car like this?
(1) does it attract a lot of unwanted attention?
(2) how much should I be prepared to lose when selling in say 12-18 months?
(3) is owning a Ferrari much different from owning a 70-100k Porsche/BMW? E.g. do you have to be particularly careful where you park? Do you use a regular car wash or some „premier“ one?
(4) should I go for 1 previous owner cars necessarily or would 2 or even 3 be fine, considering I‘ll be selling it in the near future?
I suspect the 1 year total cost (including depreciation, dealer spread, insurance and other bits) will be in the tens of thousands; I‘m prepared to spend that to scratch that itch, but then I want the least amount of hassle possible.
2) Main dealer spread is typically £20k. To be fair, that does include the cost of the 2 year new power warranty. And if you want ‘the least hassle’ then buy from a main dealer with warranty - but be aware that the warranty isn’t particularly comprehensive.
3) The driving experience is on another level in terms of enjoyment. That’s why they’re worth the hassle and expense. As for being careful, it’s a car like any other. You may have to be careful of ramp angles if you buy a car without lift but otherwise, no special treatment required.
4) Some people get hung up about the number of owners but that shouldn’t dissuade you from buying the car you like. Given the choice of two identical cars then obviously go for the lower owner count but it’s not something to worry about.
Other info on the 812;
1) Buy a pre-GPF car (you’ll need to check but I believe you’ll be looking at pre-2020 cars for this).
2) I know that your first Ferrari is supposed to be Rosso Corsa but don’t feel you have to buy one in this colour. The V12s are large cars and look better in darker or metallic colours. So if you want red, go for a metallic red.
3) As a above, the V12s are big and heavy and more suited to an A-road blast than a B-road hoon. You couldn’t choose something more diametrically opposed to the Alpine if you tried. With that in mind, plan on doing a Euro-road trip in the 812 while you own it. Then you’ll discover its true potential.
4) All 812s will still have their 7 year free servicing running and some will still have their factory warranty as well, especially if the previous owner extended the original three year warranty for an additional one or two years. Be aware that there are two types of Ferrari warranty - factory and new power. The factory covers everything, the new power only covers the drivetrain. The factory warranty can only be extended once (for 12 or 24 months) and is much more desirable than new power which is what the majority of the approved used cars will come with.
Good luck in your search and be prepared for the 812 to get under your skin and seduce you in a way no other car has.
Thanks a lot for the detailed replies. A lot to digest. I was actually looking at colours other than red, ~2019 cars, but not from a main dealer. Something like this https://www.bramley.com/stock/2019-ferrari-812-sup... stunning colour combo IMO.
20k dealer spread seems optimistic though? You‘re saying Ferrari dealer would sell a car for 230, then buy it back from me for 210? I was bracing myself for something more like 15-25% spread, i.e. 40-60k.
20k dealer spread seems optimistic though? You‘re saying Ferrari dealer would sell a car for 230, then buy it back from me for 210? I was bracing myself for something more like 15-25% spread, i.e. 40-60k.
pmn3 said:
Thanks a lot for the detailed replies. A lot to digest. I was actually looking at colours other than red, ~2019 cars, but not from a main dealer. Something like this https://www.bramley.com/stock/2019-ferrari-812-sup... stunning colour combo IMO.
20k dealer spread seems optimistic though? You‘re saying Ferrari dealer would sell a car for 230, then buy it back from me for 210? I was bracing myself for something more like 15-25% spread, i.e. 40-60k.
Nothing wrong with non Ferrari dealer cars - just avoid the usual dodgy dealers and you’ll be fine. You’ll also find that the majority of the cars at independents are on SoR so quality and prep can vary dramatically. You may also find that when you want out, you’ll also have to sell on a commission basis rather than have the dealer take it onto their books. 20k dealer spread seems optimistic though? You‘re saying Ferrari dealer would sell a car for 230, then buy it back from me for 210? I was bracing myself for something more like 15-25% spread, i.e. 40-60k.
£20k used to be the main dealer bid-offer spread (the last time I dealt was two years ago) but perhaps things have changed with inflation and the loss of economic confidence.
The two year warranty is worth about £8k if you’re to pay for it yourself so factor that in when price comparing Ferrari to independent dealers.
The Bramley car you linked to looks lovely and it’s an unusual spec. No wonder it’s sold. I’m glad you’re looking beyond ‘resale red over black’ spec cars. Part of what makes Ferrari ownership special is the option to drive a car with something nicer than the black interior which is so pervasive among the German marques.
ANOpax said:
1) Depends what you mean by unwanted? If it’s schoolboys and 50yo blokes then yes. If it’s plod or criminals and vandals then it depends on where you park it and how you drive it.
2) Main dealer spread is typically £20k. To be fair, that does include the cost of the 2 year new power warranty. And if you want ‘the least hassle’ then buy from a main dealer with warranty - but be aware that the warranty isn’t particularly comprehensive.
3) The driving experience is on another level in terms of enjoyment. That’s why they’re worth the hassle and expense. As for being careful, it’s a car like any other. You may have to be careful of ramp angles if you buy a car without lift but otherwise, no special treatment required.
4) Some people get hung up about the number of owners but that shouldn’t dissuade you from buying the car you like. Given the choice of two identical cars then obviously go for the lower owner count but it’s not something to worry about.
Other info on the 812;
1) Buy a pre-GPF car (you’ll need to check but I believe you’ll be looking at pre-2020 cars for this).
2) I know that your first Ferrari is supposed to be Rosso Corsa but don’t feel you have to buy one in this colour. The V12s are large cars and look better in darker or metallic colours. So if you want red, go for a metallic red.
3) As a above, the V12s are big and heavy and more suited to an A-road blast than a B-road hoon. You couldn’t choose something more diametrically opposed to the Alpine if you tried. With that in mind, plan on doing a Euro-road trip in the 812 while you own it. Then you’ll discover its true potential.
4) All 812s will still have their 7 year free servicing running and some will still have their factory warranty as well, especially if the previous owner extended the original three year warranty for an additional one or two years. Be aware that there are two types of Ferrari warranty - factory and new power. The factory covers everything, the new power only covers the drivetrain. The factory warranty can only be extended once (for 12 or 24 months) and is much more desirable than new power which is what the majority of the approved used cars will come with.
Good luck in your search and be prepared for the 812 to get under your skin and seduce you in a way no other car has.
@ANOpax What do you mean by pre GPF plse?2) Main dealer spread is typically £20k. To be fair, that does include the cost of the 2 year new power warranty. And if you want ‘the least hassle’ then buy from a main dealer with warranty - but be aware that the warranty isn’t particularly comprehensive.
3) The driving experience is on another level in terms of enjoyment. That’s why they’re worth the hassle and expense. As for being careful, it’s a car like any other. You may have to be careful of ramp angles if you buy a car without lift but otherwise, no special treatment required.
4) Some people get hung up about the number of owners but that shouldn’t dissuade you from buying the car you like. Given the choice of two identical cars then obviously go for the lower owner count but it’s not something to worry about.
Other info on the 812;
1) Buy a pre-GPF car (you’ll need to check but I believe you’ll be looking at pre-2020 cars for this).
2) I know that your first Ferrari is supposed to be Rosso Corsa but don’t feel you have to buy one in this colour. The V12s are large cars and look better in darker or metallic colours. So if you want red, go for a metallic red.
3) As a above, the V12s are big and heavy and more suited to an A-road blast than a B-road hoon. You couldn’t choose something more diametrically opposed to the Alpine if you tried. With that in mind, plan on doing a Euro-road trip in the 812 while you own it. Then you’ll discover its true potential.
4) All 812s will still have their 7 year free servicing running and some will still have their factory warranty as well, especially if the previous owner extended the original three year warranty for an additional one or two years. Be aware that there are two types of Ferrari warranty - factory and new power. The factory covers everything, the new power only covers the drivetrain. The factory warranty can only be extended once (for 12 or 24 months) and is much more desirable than new power which is what the majority of the approved used cars will come with.
Good luck in your search and be prepared for the 812 to get under your skin and seduce you in a way no other car has.
Fast Eddie said:
@ANOpax What do you mean by pre GPF plse?
Gas Particulate FilterIt restricts the exhaust flow a little and negatively affects the power output and exhaust note. Ferrari had to up the engine tune to compensate for the loss of power but they weren’t able to rescue the engine note.
ANOpax said:
Nothing wrong with non Ferrari dealer cars - just avoid the usual dodgy dealers and you’ll be fine. You’ll also find that the majority of the cars at independents are on SoR so quality and prep can vary dramatically. You may also find that when you want out, you’ll also have to sell on a commission basis rather than have the dealer take it onto their books.
Just so I understand. If I buy from an independent, that car can then only be re-sold through an independent, a Ferrari dealer won‘t touch it? (and then I run into the problem you describe i.e. many independents will not offer cash to buy it from me, but will only consider SOR instead?)And if I buy from a Ferrari dealer, is it quite likely they‘ll want to buy it back from me in a year or two?
These may be naive questions but precisely the sort of info I‘m looking for. Selling Porsches seemed much more straightforward…
pmn3 said:
Just so I understand. If I buy from an independent, that car can then only be re-sold through an independent, a Ferrari dealer won‘t touch it? (and then I run into the problem you describe i.e. many independents will not offer cash to buy it from me, but will only consider SOR instead?)
And if I buy from a Ferrari dealer, is it quite likely they‘ll want to buy it back from me in a year or two?
These may be naive questions but precisely the sort of info I‘m looking for. Selling Porsches seemed much more straightforward…
Not necessarily. In your case, all 812s will still be in their 7 year service plan so you should be looking at cars with full Ferrari service history. So you (or the independent) can put an official Ferrari warranty on the car subject to paying for an inspection at Ferrari. Unlike McL, the warranty is fully transferable, even if an independent dealer submits it for the warranty. However, also unlike McL, the warranty is not very comprehensive (as previously mentioned) to the extent that most long term owners choose to self insure. But in your case, two years of warranty is worth having for peace of mind as that’s your expected ownership timeframe.And if I buy from a Ferrari dealer, is it quite likely they‘ll want to buy it back from me in a year or two?
These may be naive questions but precisely the sort of info I‘m looking for. Selling Porsches seemed much more straightforward…
The reason that a Ferrari dealership is more likely to buy your car back if you bought it from them is brand goodwill and the fact that they will know the car and its provenance.
Most have already commented but just to post a pic of mine. Epic cars to drive, buy one. Good value at circ 210k. Edited to add I think mine was one of the last non GPF to be built, I received it in August 2019. Also agree with what someone else posted, if you go for red, a darker red looks much better than RC. RC doesn't really suit this car.
Edited by marky1 on Monday 14th October 13:28
Edited by marky1 on Monday 14th October 13:28
pmn3 said:
Thanks a lot for the detailed replies. A lot to digest. I was actually looking at colours other than red, ~2019 cars, but not from a main dealer. Something like this https://www.bramley.com/stock/2019-ferrari-812-sup... stunning colour combo IMO.
20k dealer spread seems optimistic though? You‘re saying Ferrari dealer would sell a car for 230, then buy it back from me for 210? I was bracing myself for something more like 15-25% spread, i.e. 40-60k.
Now that’s a gorgeous colour combo! 20k dealer spread seems optimistic though? You‘re saying Ferrari dealer would sell a car for 230, then buy it back from me for 210? I was bracing myself for something more like 15-25% spread, i.e. 40-60k.
I recently bought an 812 after having other cars (Aston V12, Mclaren, 911's etc) and can honestly say its in a different league to any of these. Mines is a late 21 plate car and i bought from an independent as I wanted to buy the best example i could and wanted a certain spec. The dealer arranged for it to go for Ferrari and have an inspection and warranty put on and the deal was done subject to it passing and getting the all clear. Ferrari Egham was excellent in trying to source a car for me but couldn't get the right spec. Others i found pretty poor to be fair and one didn't even return my call after 3 attempts.
I bought as a weekend car and it excites you every time you get in it. feels special every time. Not sure its a daily as people say.
When looking the bits i think you have to have, full cameras (its a big car and believe they are hard to sell without these), carbon steering wheel with shift lights and lift. Make sure you get the seats you want, mine has the carbon race seats with the optional extra manual lift which without that would be difficult to get the right driving position.
Wouldn't worry about the resale value as i dont plan on ever selling it and think your find it hard once you've lived with it.
I bought as a weekend car and it excites you every time you get in it. feels special every time. Not sure its a daily as people say.
When looking the bits i think you have to have, full cameras (its a big car and believe they are hard to sell without these), carbon steering wheel with shift lights and lift. Make sure you get the seats you want, mine has the carbon race seats with the optional extra manual lift which without that would be difficult to get the right driving position.
Wouldn't worry about the resale value as i dont plan on ever selling it and think your find it hard once you've lived with it.
As others have said, Ferraris in general are next level compared to “normal” brands. It’s difficult to explain but they are just special, you’ll know as soon as you drive one. You will get a lot of attention so if you don’t like that don’t get a Ferrari. My experiences have all been positive though, zero hate so far. 812s are going down in value (reasonably slowly) so if you want to shift in one year then expect it to cost you, especially combined with the dealer tax. Not sure I’d recommend an 812 for a year but you will love it and you won’t want to sell it. The 812 is brutally fast, once it hooks up it is ridiculous. Fun but also scary, not for the faint hearted, and completely different to a mid engined V8. I have a 458 as well and it’s a lot slower but more fun. The 812 is like a muscle car, it batters A roads and dual carriageways but is not a B road car, it’s too big and fast. Don’t get me wrong they are amazing.
pmn3 said:
If I were to buy a post-GPF i.e. 2020 or newer car; can the car exhaust note be made comparable to pre-GPF cars by installing Novitec or other 3rd party exhaust?
Would that sort of modification affect (1) warranty (2) main dealer’s willingness to buy the car back from me?
I have a GTS with a novitec system. Yes, it voids the warranty and, as such, I assume the dealer would not want to buy it back. But, surely you'd keep the standard exhaust and swap it back if there were any problems or when you come to sell the car.Would that sort of modification affect (1) warranty (2) main dealer’s willingness to buy the car back from me?
The Novitec system is extremely loud compared to the standard system though so be sure of what you want.
That reminds me, I have a thread about swapping the exhausts I should update with an audio clip...
I have been dithering on whether to Novitec my car. I spoke to the supplying Ferrari dealer and they would fit the cat back Novitec for me. They warned against new cats that delete the GPF saying it could lead to engine management problems. I think enough people have deleted the GPFs with the Novitec OBD module that it must be ok. The dealer said thar Novitec and Capristo were seen as high quality and wouldn't void the warranty but I guess you never know until you have a problem. My warranty has just expired so I'm likely going down the whole Novitec system route with GPF delete.
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