2018 XJR Timing chain
Discussion
Having owned a X308 XJR for many years I recall getting the timing chains replaces at some point.
I am thinking if buying a 2018 XJR and wondered what the view is regarding the timing chain(s) on this model.
Do they need replacing at some point ?
Is there a giveaway death rattle ?
Is it massive engine damage should it fail ?
Approximate cost to get the job done ?
Thankyou all, positive comments ate always appreciated
I am thinking if buying a 2018 XJR and wondered what the view is regarding the timing chain(s) on this model.
Do they need replacing at some point ?
Is there a giveaway death rattle ?
Is it massive engine damage should it fail ?
Approximate cost to get the job done ?
Thankyou all, positive comments ate always appreciated
Since 2015, the 5.0 is pretty good on chains and tensioners. I did suffer a valve stem issue that meant a new head under warranty and the other refurbed on my XFR-S. So far my F-Type has been no problem.
There’s 3 chains in total. One for each cam and a high pressure fuel pump one. The latter is at the back of the three. The first go at my issue saw the cam chain tensioners replaced with the engine in. It was about a £3k job at rhe dealer but under warranty. The second attempt was engine out and all three chains replaced. That was about £5 from memory. The last and successful attempt to fix the noise I had was about £9.5k in all.
There’s 3 chains in total. One for each cam and a high pressure fuel pump one. The latter is at the back of the three. The first go at my issue saw the cam chain tensioners replaced with the engine in. It was about a £3k job at rhe dealer but under warranty. The second attempt was engine out and all three chains replaced. That was about £5 from memory. The last and successful attempt to fix the noise I had was about £9.5k in all.
I think the issue on this may be overstated. A lot of these engines make a horrible, and I mean horrible knock on a hot start, from the high pressure fuel pumps, it really sounds like the engine is about to die. They're pretty noisy anyway, particularly once they have a few miles on them, and not just the familiar injector ticking but combustion noise and general racket.
Few revs and it goes away, it's at idle only, and if you drive it the noise vanishes. It's an excellent way to haggle the price of cars down though
I wonder how many get diagnosed with chain issues when it's something else. I find the sound of an untensioned chain singularly obvious but plenty of people don't seem to.
In any case based on even the most fantastical internet folklore a car that late should be fine.
Few revs and it goes away, it's at idle only, and if you drive it the noise vanishes. It's an excellent way to haggle the price of cars down though
I wonder how many get diagnosed with chain issues when it's something else. I find the sound of an untensioned chain singularly obvious but plenty of people don't seem to.
In any case based on even the most fantastical internet folklore a car that late should be fine.
GeniusOfLove said:
I think the issue on this may be overstated. A lot of these engines make a horrible, and I mean horrible knock on a hot start, from the high pressure fuel pumps, it really sounds like the engine is about to die. They're pretty noisy anyway, particularly once they have a few miles on them, and not just the familiar injector ticking but combustion noise and general racket.
Few revs and it goes away, it's at idle only, and if you drive it the noise vanishes. It's an excellent way to haggle the price of cars down though
I wonder how many get diagnosed with chain issues when it's something else. I find the sound of an untensioned chain singularly obvious but plenty of people don't seem to.
In any case based on even the most fantastical internet folklore a car that late should be fine.
Completely agree with you .Few revs and it goes away, it's at idle only, and if you drive it the noise vanishes. It's an excellent way to haggle the price of cars down though
I wonder how many get diagnosed with chain issues when it's something else. I find the sound of an untensioned chain singularly obvious but plenty of people don't seem to.
In any case based on even the most fantastical internet folklore a car that late should be fine.
reddiesel said:
Completely agree with you .
You've run cars with this engine from new haven't you? Were they early examples and did they sound bloody awful on a hot start?I've heard of people changing the HPFPs and eliminating the noise, and I can't imagine Jaguar didn't make efforts to redesign the part. Both my cars have invoices in their history from being taken back for knocking noises!
Hi,
I have an XFR 2013, and I'm unsure whether to change the chains.
The engine is 'quiet' at a cold start until it gets to normal temperature, then it has a definite 'knock' when hot. It sounds like it's from the front of the engine.
This is from idle up to about 2.5k. At that point, I can't differentiate between the engine revs, and with my Spires exhaust it all takes over. It's been like that for 8000 miles; it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.
I did take it to a Land Rover specialist when I first noticed it and the old mechanic who has worked on 'hundreds of em' said that he has heard worse and as it was not rattling / noisy on a cold start, did not think it was the chains.
There are no engine codes and pulls like it should.
I'm looking at either a Wraptor Customs Stage 4 or Autotech Tuning stage 4 (up to 700BHP). So, do I, for peace of mind get them changed anyway I have been quoted around £2.5K. (Wraptor).
Cheers.
Ian.
I have an XFR 2013, and I'm unsure whether to change the chains.
The engine is 'quiet' at a cold start until it gets to normal temperature, then it has a definite 'knock' when hot. It sounds like it's from the front of the engine.
This is from idle up to about 2.5k. At that point, I can't differentiate between the engine revs, and with my Spires exhaust it all takes over. It's been like that for 8000 miles; it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.
I did take it to a Land Rover specialist when I first noticed it and the old mechanic who has worked on 'hundreds of em' said that he has heard worse and as it was not rattling / noisy on a cold start, did not think it was the chains.
There are no engine codes and pulls like it should.
I'm looking at either a Wraptor Customs Stage 4 or Autotech Tuning stage 4 (up to 700BHP). So, do I, for peace of mind get them changed anyway I have been quoted around £2.5K. (Wraptor).
Cheers.
Ian.
If it doesn't make the noise from a cold start it's not the chain tensioners, a failing tensioner makes exactly the noise you'd expect a lightweight chain flapping about and hitting plastic guides to make. You'll 100% know it when you hear it.
I wonder if it's a variant of the fuel pump noise I've heard so much, you could get under the car with a long screwdriver/stethoscope and put it on the pumps to have a listen I suppose. My Supersport was doing it when I was underneath changing the ATF and it sounded particularly horrific.
If it's done it for 8k miles and not exploded it can't be that bad. Have you run it with the bonnet up and had a good listen about?
I wonder if it's a variant of the fuel pump noise I've heard so much, you could get under the car with a long screwdriver/stethoscope and put it on the pumps to have a listen I suppose. My Supersport was doing it when I was underneath changing the ATF and it sounded particularly horrific.
If it's done it for 8k miles and not exploded it can't be that bad. Have you run it with the bonnet up and had a good listen about?
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 8th October 13:48
Yes, many times...it also appears to be more prominent from the lower left (as you face the engine) but only slightly...
It's keeping me from really enjoying the car as I'm a bit nervous of pushing it very hard
.
I will have to make a video from cold and then with the noise and maybe post it if I can on here??
Thanks...
It's keeping me from really enjoying the car as I'm a bit nervous of pushing it very hard
.
I will have to make a video from cold and then with the noise and maybe post it if I can on here??
Thanks...
I'm convinced the hot knock on these is down to the fuel pumps,
I genuinely wonder how much of the timing chain doom and gloom is mis diagnosed fuel pump/lay shaft noise. The worst I've heard the noise is when underneath a running one where they basically sound like they're about to throw a rod, and yet that particular car is still going very strong years later.
While I haven't done a 5.0 chain yet touch wood, I've done and diagnosed enough chains on other engines to know that massively worn chain and tensioner faults will usually throw timing and other related codes way before giving up the ghost. Regardless a 2018 is likely to have much more life in it, particularly if it's ran on the proper "thinner than water" right spec oil
I genuinely wonder how much of the timing chain doom and gloom is mis diagnosed fuel pump/lay shaft noise. The worst I've heard the noise is when underneath a running one where they basically sound like they're about to throw a rod, and yet that particular car is still going very strong years later.
While I haven't done a 5.0 chain yet touch wood, I've done and diagnosed enough chains on other engines to know that massively worn chain and tensioner faults will usually throw timing and other related codes way before giving up the ghost. Regardless a 2018 is likely to have much more life in it, particularly if it's ran on the proper "thinner than water" right spec oil
reddiesel said:
GeniusOfLove said:
I think the issue on this may be overstated. A lot of these engines make a horrible, and I mean horrible knock on a hot start, from the high pressure fuel pumps, it really sounds like the engine is about to die. They're pretty noisy anyway, particularly once they have a few miles on them, and not just the familiar injector ticking but combustion noise and general racket.
Few revs and it goes away, it's at idle only, and if you drive it the noise vanishes. It's an excellent way to haggle the price of cars down though
I wonder how many get diagnosed with chain issues when it's something else. I find the sound of an untensioned chain singularly obvious but plenty of people don't seem to.
In any case based on even the most fantastical internet folklore a car that late should be fine.
Completely agree with you .Few revs and it goes away, it's at idle only, and if you drive it the noise vanishes. It's an excellent way to haggle the price of cars down though
I wonder how many get diagnosed with chain issues when it's something else. I find the sound of an untensioned chain singularly obvious but plenty of people don't seem to.
In any case based on even the most fantastical internet folklore a car that late should be fine.
GeniusOfLove said:
You've run cars with this engine from new haven't you? Were they early examples and did they sound bloody awful on a hot start?
I've heard of people changing the HPFPs and eliminating the noise, and I can't imagine Jaguar didn't make efforts to redesign the part. Both my cars have invoices in their history from being taken back for knocking noises!
An 18 plate and a 19 plate so neither were early examples but I had absolutely no issues with either . To be fair I have heard of one or two issues when they dropped the original 4.2 in the X150 for the 5.0 but this was on Forums rather than actually meeting Owners with problems . Obviously you are buying and selling them with greater frequency than most of us and I take my hat off to your experience regarding that but the 5.0 litre V8 is a reliable and proven power plant and probably one of Jaguars finest . It pains me when People come on here considering buying one and they are genuinely worried about all this largely internet rubbish that they have been reading . These armed with a little knowledge are just the easiest cars to buy secondhand , much moreso than a DB9 or anything by Porsche and again such tremendous value for money .I've heard of people changing the HPFPs and eliminating the noise, and I can't imagine Jaguar didn't make efforts to redesign the part. Both my cars have invoices in their history from being taken back for knocking noises!
NortonES2 said:
the timing chains on the 5.0 were changed from 6.3mm to 8mm in early 2014 apparently.
Internet misinformation. Very very early chains were from Tsubaki and were a 6.3mm pitch chain, very early on this moved to an INA system with an 8.0mm pitch which was used right up until the end. In this photo the one on top (top and side view) is the INA chain and the lower is the Tsubaki. Ironically the earlier one looks like a more expensive and higher quality chain. You can see from the parts finder that the X351 never had the Tsubaki chains, it was on early 5.0 XFs and XKs only (think 2009 cars). Everything is different between the chain designs; chains, guides, sprokets, the lot.There were 4 changes to the primary tensioner blade, you can see the VIN this changeover happened with on the JLR parts finder for a given model, this could be down to a change of supplier or a parts redesign but anecdotally they toughened the area where the tensioner cylinder pushes against the blade.
Looks like on the XJ VINV58603 has the most recent revision from the factory.
The earlier revisions had the plunger of the tensioner pushing into the aluminium of the guide, and apparently on some cars it has pushed into the aluminium a little and then run out of adjustment, giving slack chains. They also changed the shape of the guide and the angle of the tensioner so they need to be changed together.
I suspect you'd need a combination of the earlier tensioners and neglected oil changes to both wear the chain and possibly have the soot in the oil contribute to wearing the contact patch between tensioner and blade. I've never seen a knackered one in person so that's conjecture, but I have seen a forum post from a guy who took the early tensioners out of a 180k mile Range Rover and there was no wear on the contact point with the tensioner, it all looked fine.
I've also never known a timing chain give trouble without PLENTY of warning, and while I've seen examples of the 5.0 with noisy chains they've been absolute neglected dog XFRs that have obviously been owned by at least one complete idiot. I watched one turn up with a rattling chain and then murdered by being revved hard over and over and over until it went, if you weren't a total spud you'd have had ample warning that it needed attention, they also throw an EML when the timing goes way out from an elongated chain.
I really do believe that people just ignore noises and even EMLs and drive things to death.
I run two cars with this engine, one of which is about to reach 150k miles and does 1,500 miles a month, and I don't lose any sleep over the timing gear.
As with all direct injected engines it's really important to use the latest standard oils (they have additives to mitigate against sooting of the oil and low speed pre detonation) and change it regularly.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Thursday 10th October 10:52
Chimaera520 said:
Hi,
I have an XFR 2013, and I'm unsure whether to change the chains.
The engine is 'quiet' at a cold start until it gets to normal temperature, then it has a definite 'knock' when hot. It sounds like it's from the front of the engine.
This is from idle up to about 2.5k. At that point, I can't differentiate between the engine revs, and with my Spires exhaust it all takes over. It's been like that for 8000 miles; it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.
I did take it to a Land Rover specialist when I first noticed it and the old mechanic who has worked on 'hundreds of em' said that he has heard worse and as it was not rattling / noisy on a cold start, did not think it was the chains.
There are no engine codes and pulls like it should.
I'm looking at either a Wraptor Customs Stage 4 or Autotech Tuning stage 4 (up to 700BHP). So, do I, for peace of mind get them changed anyway I have been quoted around £2.5K. (Wraptor).
Cheers.
Ian.
look at the chain through the oil filler cap which of the two above is it?I have an XFR 2013, and I'm unsure whether to change the chains.
The engine is 'quiet' at a cold start until it gets to normal temperature, then it has a definite 'knock' when hot. It sounds like it's from the front of the engine.
This is from idle up to about 2.5k. At that point, I can't differentiate between the engine revs, and with my Spires exhaust it all takes over. It's been like that for 8000 miles; it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.
I did take it to a Land Rover specialist when I first noticed it and the old mechanic who has worked on 'hundreds of em' said that he has heard worse and as it was not rattling / noisy on a cold start, did not think it was the chains.
There are no engine codes and pulls like it should.
I'm looking at either a Wraptor Customs Stage 4 or Autotech Tuning stage 4 (up to 700BHP). So, do I, for peace of mind get them changed anyway I have been quoted around £2.5K. (Wraptor).
Cheers.
Ian.
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