A110 v MX5 ND2
Discussion
Ran both alongside each other for a few months....
Alpine is way more "car' like - much more comfortable on a cruise, quieter inside, the materials feel better.
ND2 is astonishing value for the money. The infotainment is leagues ahead of the Alpine. The roof is brilliantly quick. Gearbox is wonderful. But it's noisy top up (I ended up still wearing earplugs on motorway trips), and even less practical (less luggage space and cabin is much smaller). RF might be better top up, but when I drove a friends it was more turbulent and noisy than I expected top down.
Both close in economy although the ND2 probably edges it, especially when making progress (and probably well down your list of careabouts).
ND2 seats almost inexcusably bad. If I went back, I'd have to try a Recaro version. SWMBO has an NC, and the seats in that are /way/ better than the ND. Neither a patch on the buckets in the Alpine though.
Handling on both improved by a geo. ND2 still always a bit soggy, I'm sure could be cured with suspension upgrade.
I do miss not having the ragtop on the Alpine. I miss the naturally aspirated and revvy engine of the ND2. But overall the Alpine is much more complete as a sportscar - and not really surprising given the cost disparity.
Alpine is way more "car' like - much more comfortable on a cruise, quieter inside, the materials feel better.
ND2 is astonishing value for the money. The infotainment is leagues ahead of the Alpine. The roof is brilliantly quick. Gearbox is wonderful. But it's noisy top up (I ended up still wearing earplugs on motorway trips), and even less practical (less luggage space and cabin is much smaller). RF might be better top up, but when I drove a friends it was more turbulent and noisy than I expected top down.
Both close in economy although the ND2 probably edges it, especially when making progress (and probably well down your list of careabouts).
ND2 seats almost inexcusably bad. If I went back, I'd have to try a Recaro version. SWMBO has an NC, and the seats in that are /way/ better than the ND. Neither a patch on the buckets in the Alpine though.
Handling on both improved by a geo. ND2 still always a bit soggy, I'm sure could be cured with suspension upgrade.
I do miss not having the ragtop on the Alpine. I miss the naturally aspirated and revvy engine of the ND2. But overall the Alpine is much more complete as a sportscar - and not really surprising given the cost disparity.
8 years into original ND ownership here and have had the Alpine for coming up to 4 years, few headline points from me, not in any particular order.
(our ND is in BBR Super 200 tune, c214bhp, uprated ARB's and cheap and cheerful Koni springs and dampers)
- ND reliability beggars belief, one single fault in 8 years (window regulator)
- ND very cheap and cheerful to service compared to the A110
- Recaro seats in ND very good, standard seats less so
- ND very snug if over 6ft tall, Alpine very good for tall people
- Mazda have done a great job with the NA 4 pot in the ND, great blend of torque and top end
- Likewise (imho) Alpine have also done a great job with the 'blown 4 pot', mid range torque equally fun as ringing out the ND, just a different experience
- Alpine way more refined than the ND, we don't consider the ND unrefined though
- EPAS in the ND is average at best (later cars may be slightly improved)
- Steering in the Alpine way better overall, albeit perhaps not the Alpine's best point
- Steering feel, chassis stiffness and precision generally way better in the A110, the ND is very 'friendly', front engine, rwd etc but when you push on it's nowhere near as good as the Alpine, we ran a GT86 for while too, steering and turn in precision likewise in a different league to the ND
- Manual roof down motoring in the ND is great, a roofless version of the Alpine would be my ideal car !! Assuming no compromises of course.
- Alpine interior way nicer, feels a special place to be
- ND feels smaller than the Apline, we like this but is clearly subjective
- Both have plenty of space (for what they are), we have zero issues with packing for long trips in either car
- Alpine will feel way quicker than a stock ND, even the 180bhp version, ND's are not slow though
- Both great on economy, but the ND beggars belief even when driven hard !!
- Consumables like tyres way chaper on the ND
- Driving position and pedal location way better in the Alpine, slight clumsy offset in the ND, you do get used to it but jumping back in the Alpine after the A110 it is very noticeable
- Grip levels in the Alpine significantly higher than the ND
In summary as true drivers car I think the A110 is in a different league to the ND, particularly when pushing on, with the right set up the way the A110 dances around a B road is just sublime and never fails to amaze me, it's hard to describe in words but that rotation about itself feeling you get from the mid engine layout is brilliant. ND is still fun but (we've kept if for nearly 8 years) but just lacks that precision and control that you get in the Alpine. Modifying the ND improves things slightly but doesn't fix the average EPAS or lack of chassis stiffness does it. Unlike the A110 where (in our experience) some very subtle mods have made a great care even better !!
(our ND is in BBR Super 200 tune, c214bhp, uprated ARB's and cheap and cheerful Koni springs and dampers)
- ND reliability beggars belief, one single fault in 8 years (window regulator)
- ND very cheap and cheerful to service compared to the A110
- Recaro seats in ND very good, standard seats less so
- ND very snug if over 6ft tall, Alpine very good for tall people
- Mazda have done a great job with the NA 4 pot in the ND, great blend of torque and top end
- Likewise (imho) Alpine have also done a great job with the 'blown 4 pot', mid range torque equally fun as ringing out the ND, just a different experience
- Alpine way more refined than the ND, we don't consider the ND unrefined though
- EPAS in the ND is average at best (later cars may be slightly improved)
- Steering in the Alpine way better overall, albeit perhaps not the Alpine's best point
- Steering feel, chassis stiffness and precision generally way better in the A110, the ND is very 'friendly', front engine, rwd etc but when you push on it's nowhere near as good as the Alpine, we ran a GT86 for while too, steering and turn in precision likewise in a different league to the ND
- Manual roof down motoring in the ND is great, a roofless version of the Alpine would be my ideal car !! Assuming no compromises of course.
- Alpine interior way nicer, feels a special place to be
- ND feels smaller than the Apline, we like this but is clearly subjective
- Both have plenty of space (for what they are), we have zero issues with packing for long trips in either car
- Alpine will feel way quicker than a stock ND, even the 180bhp version, ND's are not slow though
- Both great on economy, but the ND beggars belief even when driven hard !!
- Consumables like tyres way chaper on the ND
- Driving position and pedal location way better in the Alpine, slight clumsy offset in the ND, you do get used to it but jumping back in the Alpine after the A110 it is very noticeable
- Grip levels in the Alpine significantly higher than the ND
In summary as true drivers car I think the A110 is in a different league to the ND, particularly when pushing on, with the right set up the way the A110 dances around a B road is just sublime and never fails to amaze me, it's hard to describe in words but that rotation about itself feeling you get from the mid engine layout is brilliant. ND is still fun but (we've kept if for nearly 8 years) but just lacks that precision and control that you get in the Alpine. Modifying the ND improves things slightly but doesn't fix the average EPAS or lack of chassis stiffness does it. Unlike the A110 where (in our experience) some very subtle mods have made a great care even better !!
Many thanks to both of you for your really in depth replies, much appreciated.
I've had a number of 'better' & faster cars than the ND2 but the ethos really does appeal, I like my cars small and light, perfect when you live rurally as I do.
Having watched every YT video & read every test on 110's & followed Dan Prosser's journey with them since he first visited the factory when he wrote for Evo I'm sure it's my next car, but the ND2 really does appeal too, & I felt it invaluable to get opinions from those with experience of both, whilst appreciating they're not direct rivals.
I do think as a daily or almost the 110 would make a better overall car plus it's so unique and I missed out on an Elise 20+ years ago favouring the MK3 MR2 as it was easier to live with.
Cheers
I've had a number of 'better' & faster cars than the ND2 but the ethos really does appeal, I like my cars small and light, perfect when you live rurally as I do.
Having watched every YT video & read every test on 110's & followed Dan Prosser's journey with them since he first visited the factory when he wrote for Evo I'm sure it's my next car, but the ND2 really does appeal too, & I felt it invaluable to get opinions from those with experience of both, whilst appreciating they're not direct rivals.
I do think as a daily or almost the 110 would make a better overall car plus it's so unique and I missed out on an Elise 20+ years ago favouring the MK3 MR2 as it was easier to live with.
Cheers
After 25 years Lotus Elise S1 ownership I was looking for something more reliable, more mature but still lightweight. Initialy I intended to buy a new MX-5 Homura, but after taking seat I changed my mind. Asked the dealer how to lower the Recaro seat to a more sporty position and he answered it was already down. Undriveable fmpov, even as a rather small person.
Test drove a A110 pure, GT and S and bought a new Pure in the end. Seat is in the lowest position.
Test drove a A110 pure, GT and S and bought a new Pure in the end. Seat is in the lowest position.
Edited by k_m on Thursday 26th September 06:20
Had an MX5 ND 30th anniversary for 4 years before trading in for an Alpine. I'd agree with everything Simon said. I'm 5'10" and found the recaro seat both supremely comfy and plenty low enough, plus the backrest is adjustable, unlike the Alpine. Plus you can set the headlights to 'off', unlike the Alpine
I had zero issues in 4 years of ownership. Indeed, it was my fourth consecutive Mazda over 15 years (Mazda 3, 3 MPS Mk1 & then Mk2) and I had a grand total of one defect, a loose ARB on the 2nd MPS.
The total lack of torque from the NASP engine is a shock at first but once you 'get' that it's a totally different way of driving, a throwback to a bye gone era, then it clicks and they're a total joy. You learn to ring the engine out and you're still not in licence losing territory, unlike the Alpine. I miss the manual box, nailing a throttle blip downchange never got old.
MX5 certainly cheaper to run. £145 road tax, £220 insurance for me, main stealer service £300. Alpine slightly thirstier on fuel.
Maybe a car between the MX5 and Alpine would be ideal.........GR86 ?
Could have saved £20k and bought a bulletproof Toyota. Having not seen any for ages I've seen a glut recently including several in Switzerland the other week. Front looks a bit frumpy but the rear is spectacular. The Alpine is the other way around IMO.
Think they are about 230/240 bhp and 1300 kg , so almost 300 kg heavier than the MX5, but with a far better chassis allegedly.
Col du Madelaine summit, June 2022, with Mont Blanc in the distance:-
Grande Dixence dam, Sion, Switzerland. Sept 2022
I had zero issues in 4 years of ownership. Indeed, it was my fourth consecutive Mazda over 15 years (Mazda 3, 3 MPS Mk1 & then Mk2) and I had a grand total of one defect, a loose ARB on the 2nd MPS.
The total lack of torque from the NASP engine is a shock at first but once you 'get' that it's a totally different way of driving, a throwback to a bye gone era, then it clicks and they're a total joy. You learn to ring the engine out and you're still not in licence losing territory, unlike the Alpine. I miss the manual box, nailing a throttle blip downchange never got old.
MX5 certainly cheaper to run. £145 road tax, £220 insurance for me, main stealer service £300. Alpine slightly thirstier on fuel.
Maybe a car between the MX5 and Alpine would be ideal.........GR86 ?
Could have saved £20k and bought a bulletproof Toyota. Having not seen any for ages I've seen a glut recently including several in Switzerland the other week. Front looks a bit frumpy but the rear is spectacular. The Alpine is the other way around IMO.
Think they are about 230/240 bhp and 1300 kg , so almost 300 kg heavier than the MX5, but with a far better chassis allegedly.
Col du Madelaine summit, June 2022, with Mont Blanc in the distance:-
Grande Dixence dam, Sion, Switzerland. Sept 2022
I have both and regularly use them for fast road driving. I love them both and rate them very highly. The Alpine has a couple of mods similar to the A110S, and the MX5 is a stock ND2 RF with Recaros and Bilsteins. Both weigh around 1110 kg with a full tank of gas.
I agree with 90% of the previous comments, so I'll try not to repeat everything
The MX5 is a fun car that makes you smile from the moment you get in, especially with the roof down. It doesn't take itself too seriously. The car feels small, nimble and light. It's defined by great linear controls, an NA engine, and long suspension travel, which soaks up bumps beautifully. It’s a very fun car to drive from 1/10 up to 8/10s. It’s not the easiest car to drive fast — you have to work hard, be very smooth, keep the engine on the boil, and meticulously manage weight transfer. Done right, it is extremely engaging and rewarding. However, pushing it beyond 8/10s doesn’t get better imo, and it can feel a bit over the top.
The Alpine is a much more serious car than the MX5, though not GT3-serious. It feels and looks like a very special place to be. It’s much easier to drive fast; you can be quite untalented and still be fairly quick on the road. The car feels light but larger. It’s defined by turbo power delivery, amazing rear grip, and eagerness to turn (although the stock front tires can be overwhelmed). The stock suspension is soft and a bit imprecise over the limit, and the turbo power delivery makes it less controllable. With a couple of mods, the car becomes very well-behaved, and given it’s mid-engined and equipped with an e-diff, it’s surprisingly good at sliding too. Driving it at slower speeds, 5/10 and below, can be a bit boring, though it still feels special. I enjoy it mostly going 7/10s and beyond — that’s where it shines. The firmer suspension still breathes well with the road, and it catapults out of corners. Even when overdriving the rear axle, it still accelerates (in contrast to an FR car).
Both have incredible seats — very comfortable and supportive. However, for my size (5'7"), the Recaros are a perfect width, while the Sabelts could be narrower. The Alpine has a much bigger cabin, built for taller people. While the Alpine isn’t bad for daily use, I would say the general ergonomics and equipment functionality are better in the Mazda — maybe it’s the Japanese attention to detail or the fact that it’s the fourth generation. For example: Mazda's infotainment and its controls, cruise and steering wheel controls, seat controls (spring-loaded), less bulky passenger seat, integrated seat speakers for phone calls, storage space, matrix headlights, etc.
In conclusion, both are exceptional driver’s cars, especially for the times we live in, though they have slightly different characters.
I agree with 90% of the previous comments, so I'll try not to repeat everything
The MX5 is a fun car that makes you smile from the moment you get in, especially with the roof down. It doesn't take itself too seriously. The car feels small, nimble and light. It's defined by great linear controls, an NA engine, and long suspension travel, which soaks up bumps beautifully. It’s a very fun car to drive from 1/10 up to 8/10s. It’s not the easiest car to drive fast — you have to work hard, be very smooth, keep the engine on the boil, and meticulously manage weight transfer. Done right, it is extremely engaging and rewarding. However, pushing it beyond 8/10s doesn’t get better imo, and it can feel a bit over the top.
The Alpine is a much more serious car than the MX5, though not GT3-serious. It feels and looks like a very special place to be. It’s much easier to drive fast; you can be quite untalented and still be fairly quick on the road. The car feels light but larger. It’s defined by turbo power delivery, amazing rear grip, and eagerness to turn (although the stock front tires can be overwhelmed). The stock suspension is soft and a bit imprecise over the limit, and the turbo power delivery makes it less controllable. With a couple of mods, the car becomes very well-behaved, and given it’s mid-engined and equipped with an e-diff, it’s surprisingly good at sliding too. Driving it at slower speeds, 5/10 and below, can be a bit boring, though it still feels special. I enjoy it mostly going 7/10s and beyond — that’s where it shines. The firmer suspension still breathes well with the road, and it catapults out of corners. Even when overdriving the rear axle, it still accelerates (in contrast to an FR car).
Both have incredible seats — very comfortable and supportive. However, for my size (5'7"), the Recaros are a perfect width, while the Sabelts could be narrower. The Alpine has a much bigger cabin, built for taller people. While the Alpine isn’t bad for daily use, I would say the general ergonomics and equipment functionality are better in the Mazda — maybe it’s the Japanese attention to detail or the fact that it’s the fourth generation. For example: Mazda's infotainment and its controls, cruise and steering wheel controls, seat controls (spring-loaded), less bulky passenger seat, integrated seat speakers for phone calls, storage space, matrix headlights, etc.
In conclusion, both are exceptional driver’s cars, especially for the times we live in, though they have slightly different characters.
GR86.... well, SWMBO has one of those, and I ran a BRZ for 5 years...
If you could take the steering feel, chassis stiffness and seats of the GR and put it with the ND2 gearbox and engine, that would be wonderful
The GR certainly fixes a lot of the criticisms of the GT86/BRZ, most notably the "torque dip" in the mid range (which if you were driving hard you could stay above, but it did make moderate levels of progress very frustrating). Moving from 17s to 18s between the cars has made the ride a little harsher.
It's by far the most practical of the 3 - even ignoring the rear seats for passengers, the boot is bigger, and you can still chuck luggage in the back seats too. NVH isn't great, the cabin is surprisingly noisy on the motorway (although not as bad as the ND), and the fake noise isn't brilliant - I know it can be disabled, but haven't been sufficiently annoyed to get that sorted/coded out.
It's probably the most playful of the 3 (as in, wants to go sideways most readily), but the least adjustable in terms of what geo settings can be changed (without resorting to after market parts). Steering feel is definitely the best of the 3 cars, although I think the GR isn't quite as good as the BRZ.
I had the BRZ alongside the Alpine and a Caterham - supposed to be my daily but I was still always happy to pick up the keys for a weekend blat in it too.
If you could take the steering feel, chassis stiffness and seats of the GR and put it with the ND2 gearbox and engine, that would be wonderful
The GR certainly fixes a lot of the criticisms of the GT86/BRZ, most notably the "torque dip" in the mid range (which if you were driving hard you could stay above, but it did make moderate levels of progress very frustrating). Moving from 17s to 18s between the cars has made the ride a little harsher.
It's by far the most practical of the 3 - even ignoring the rear seats for passengers, the boot is bigger, and you can still chuck luggage in the back seats too. NVH isn't great, the cabin is surprisingly noisy on the motorway (although not as bad as the ND), and the fake noise isn't brilliant - I know it can be disabled, but haven't been sufficiently annoyed to get that sorted/coded out.
It's probably the most playful of the 3 (as in, wants to go sideways most readily), but the least adjustable in terms of what geo settings can be changed (without resorting to after market parts). Steering feel is definitely the best of the 3 cars, although I think the GR isn't quite as good as the BRZ.
I had the BRZ alongside the Alpine and a Caterham - supposed to be my daily but I was still always happy to pick up the keys for a weekend blat in it too.
jont- said:
GR86.... well, SWMBO has one of those, and I ran a BRZ for 5 years...
If you could take the steering feel, chassis stiffness and seats of the GR and put it with the ND2 gearbox and engine, that would be wonderful
100% agree with this, and have said the same many many times !!!If you could take the steering feel, chassis stiffness and seats of the GR and put it with the ND2 gearbox and engine, that would be wonderful
We also had the GT86, and with some subtle mods, Bilstein's, mild camber bolts, tad bit of lowering, the turn in and steering felt brilliant. Engine was pants though, even post torque dip removal !!! Alpine A110 engine in a GT86 chassis would also be cool... even though I know it's not NA !!
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