A110 PE won't start, just clicks
Discussion
Hi All,
I have a PE with ~18,000 kms that is new to me as a 2nd owner.
It has a LiON battery with a bluetooth monitoring App, but othewise all very normal.
Other than a long drive home after buying it, it has only been on a couple of outings since in my posession. I took it out on Saturday for an hour to enjoy a drive, parked on the driveway to clean the windscreen inside & out, then put it in the garage.
Less than 24hrs later on Sunday it wouldn't start & remains that way till now. There is a click from a relay or 2 when pressing the start button (with foot on brake), but the engine doesn't try to turn over, ie no starter motor action.
The car locks & unlocks as usual. The dash lights up with the graphics & head lights can turn on & off. The car seems to do everything it should, other than try to start. My first thought was I had somehow enabled an immobilizer, but haven't been able to determine if these cars even have one.
Over the last few days I have tried (in no particular order)
Charging the battery
Removing a battery lead for ~10 mins to 'reset' the car's ECU
Using jumper leads from a brand new SLA battery
Tried both key cards
Tried both key cards in the emergency slot behind the passenger side panel
Scanned the OBD2 port for error codes (all clear using generic OBD2 check, but not Renault/Alpine specific).
Right now the battery is on a trickle charger & is at 13.61V. App says the state of charge is 96% with a green tick showing "battery OK". I've tried starting it when the battery was at >14V & SoC said 100%. I don't think the problem lies with the battery.
Are there any wiring diagrams available showing relay & fuse functions &/or locations? Is there a trick to these cars that I don't know about? The first owner has helped all he could but has never had this problem before.
I am ~2hrs by flatbed truck to nearest Alpine service location so that's not a convenient solution. Good news is it's in my garage & it's not a daily driver.
Many thanks.
I have a PE with ~18,000 kms that is new to me as a 2nd owner.
It has a LiON battery with a bluetooth monitoring App, but othewise all very normal.
Other than a long drive home after buying it, it has only been on a couple of outings since in my posession. I took it out on Saturday for an hour to enjoy a drive, parked on the driveway to clean the windscreen inside & out, then put it in the garage.
Less than 24hrs later on Sunday it wouldn't start & remains that way till now. There is a click from a relay or 2 when pressing the start button (with foot on brake), but the engine doesn't try to turn over, ie no starter motor action.
The car locks & unlocks as usual. The dash lights up with the graphics & head lights can turn on & off. The car seems to do everything it should, other than try to start. My first thought was I had somehow enabled an immobilizer, but haven't been able to determine if these cars even have one.
Over the last few days I have tried (in no particular order)
Charging the battery
Removing a battery lead for ~10 mins to 'reset' the car's ECU
Using jumper leads from a brand new SLA battery
Tried both key cards
Tried both key cards in the emergency slot behind the passenger side panel
Scanned the OBD2 port for error codes (all clear using generic OBD2 check, but not Renault/Alpine specific).
Right now the battery is on a trickle charger & is at 13.61V. App says the state of charge is 96% with a green tick showing "battery OK". I've tried starting it when the battery was at >14V & SoC said 100%. I don't think the problem lies with the battery.
Are there any wiring diagrams available showing relay & fuse functions &/or locations? Is there a trick to these cars that I don't know about? The first owner has helped all he could but has never had this problem before.
I am ~2hrs by flatbed truck to nearest Alpine service location so that's not a convenient solution. Good news is it's in my garage & it's not a daily driver.
Many thanks.
Welcome and good morning
Have you checked the brake switch- there’s a thread on here with all details as to how to replace. A few switches have failed.
The car needs the brake pedal to be pressed to start the car - pushing the start button without pressing the brake merely boots the systems. If there’s a problem with the brake switch I can see you having the issues you’ve discussed. It’s, apparently, an easy fix
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edit to add link
Have you checked the brake switch- there’s a thread on here with all details as to how to replace. A few switches have failed.
The car needs the brake pedal to be pressed to start the car - pushing the start button without pressing the brake merely boots the systems. If there’s a problem with the brake switch I can see you having the issues you’ve discussed. It’s, apparently, an easy fix
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edit to add link
Edited by Miserablegit on Tuesday 24th September 09:22
Life110 said:
Everything points to flat battery, symptoms are exactly the same, so I’d get a proper one on. Heard of a lot of problems with the small Lion ones fitted.
Or a weak connection which is sufficient to trigger the relay but not carry enough current to turn the starter motor. A friend had this on his TVR. A weak connection can carry low current but fails under higher demand. Thanks everyone for your suggestions & ideas - very encouraging to have such support.
@Miserablegit - the brake switch thread was an interesting read & I was hoping my problem could be that easy. I got the missus to press the brake & all the lights went on/off as expected. I can also see a symbol on the instrument display come & go with each brake push. I assume that these results rule out a brake switch malfunction. However, I will be buying a spare switch because if it's happened to others, chances are it'll happen to me eventually.
@Life110 - I took the LiPo battery to my local battery place & he tested it at >600 cranking amps & said "it would start a V8". He was confident it was perfectly OK, but I'm a little wary so have ordered a 'jump start" box to go with me on my travels.
@Simon_GH - you may have been onto something with your comment. The LiPo battery terminals are of a smaller size to the battery clamps, so they have a copper sleeve adapter to bring them up to the correct size. But they were not exactly right & I discovered the positive clamp could be twisted a little when I was removing the battery to have it tested. My battery guy "resized" them in a vice & now they are a proper press fit & can't be moved when tightened down. Alas, thsi didn't change anything.
@neon_fox - I had my missus do the button pushing while I went around the car listening to & feeling relays. There is no sound from the front box. Inside the cabin, every relay seems to click when the start button is pushed, but that might be the Body Control Modules waking up with ignition on.
In the engine compartment, I hear a high pitched whine whenever the car is awake (is that normal?), but a single (pretty loud) CLICK when the start is activated. It's not click click click (I've heard that sort of thing before), just a single one. I imagine it could be the starter motor solenoid operating.
I once had a old car where the starter pinion gear would get stuck occasionaly & I'd have to rock it back & forth to get it started. I thought I'd try that with the A110, but no change to my problem.
Other things I have done since the first post.
Checked every fuse (with battery disconnected) - almost all had 0 ohms across them, a couple of 3-5A fuses had 2 ohms. I think they are all good.
Made sure all relays were seated properly
Did another scan, but this time with proper Renault/Alpine system files. Only 2 faults remained after initially clearing a multitude of things, probably related to battery being removed, or previous fuel pump issues etc. One fault is due to the titanium exhaust not having the flap motor connected. The other remains a mystery, but unlikely to be connected to the non start fault. I'd be happy to be told otherwise.
To add to the knowledge base, here is the part numbers to start relays etc as sent by my closest Alpine service centre, that happens to shutting their doors to Renault & Alpine service in 2 days time!
Where to from here? Is it just me, or does it now look more like a mechanical fault than electrical?
Do I need to jack up the car, remove undertray & poke around?
All the best.
@Miserablegit - the brake switch thread was an interesting read & I was hoping my problem could be that easy. I got the missus to press the brake & all the lights went on/off as expected. I can also see a symbol on the instrument display come & go with each brake push. I assume that these results rule out a brake switch malfunction. However, I will be buying a spare switch because if it's happened to others, chances are it'll happen to me eventually.
@Life110 - I took the LiPo battery to my local battery place & he tested it at >600 cranking amps & said "it would start a V8". He was confident it was perfectly OK, but I'm a little wary so have ordered a 'jump start" box to go with me on my travels.
@Simon_GH - you may have been onto something with your comment. The LiPo battery terminals are of a smaller size to the battery clamps, so they have a copper sleeve adapter to bring them up to the correct size. But they were not exactly right & I discovered the positive clamp could be twisted a little when I was removing the battery to have it tested. My battery guy "resized" them in a vice & now they are a proper press fit & can't be moved when tightened down. Alas, thsi didn't change anything.
@neon_fox - I had my missus do the button pushing while I went around the car listening to & feeling relays. There is no sound from the front box. Inside the cabin, every relay seems to click when the start button is pushed, but that might be the Body Control Modules waking up with ignition on.
In the engine compartment, I hear a high pitched whine whenever the car is awake (is that normal?), but a single (pretty loud) CLICK when the start is activated. It's not click click click (I've heard that sort of thing before), just a single one. I imagine it could be the starter motor solenoid operating.
I once had a old car where the starter pinion gear would get stuck occasionaly & I'd have to rock it back & forth to get it started. I thought I'd try that with the A110, but no change to my problem.
Other things I have done since the first post.
Checked every fuse (with battery disconnected) - almost all had 0 ohms across them, a couple of 3-5A fuses had 2 ohms. I think they are all good.
Made sure all relays were seated properly
Did another scan, but this time with proper Renault/Alpine system files. Only 2 faults remained after initially clearing a multitude of things, probably related to battery being removed, or previous fuel pump issues etc. One fault is due to the titanium exhaust not having the flap motor connected. The other remains a mystery, but unlikely to be connected to the non start fault. I'd be happy to be told otherwise.
To add to the knowledge base, here is the part numbers to start relays etc as sent by my closest Alpine service centre, that happens to shutting their doors to Renault & Alpine service in 2 days time!
Where to from here? Is it just me, or does it now look more like a mechanical fault than electrical?
Do I need to jack up the car, remove undertray & poke around?
All the best.
The other real possibility is the dreaded fuel pump.
Twice prior to the pump failing I had exactly the same problem / symptoms.
Car refused to turnover, just clicked. First time it eventually restarted, second time RAC put in a bigger battery that worked until the pump completely failed.
Have you checked pump has been changed on your car?
Twice prior to the pump failing I had exactly the same problem / symptoms.
Car refused to turnover, just clicked. First time it eventually restarted, second time RAC put in a bigger battery that worked until the pump completely failed.
Have you checked pump has been changed on your car?
Miserablegit said:
Can you disable stop start by holding down the button or removing a fuse in case that’s a bug preventing starting?
I recall there were stop start software issues in the early days
Stop start is permanently disabled using a 3D printed piece that also blocks the light - a nice mod by the first owner.I recall there were stop start software issues in the early days
Monkeylegend said:
Do you have home start breakdown cover, if so I would be calling them.
They might at least be able to identify the issue even if they can't rectify it on the spot.
I do have breakdown cover, but they don't cover you unless you are away from home. I guess I could tow it down the street...They might at least be able to identify the issue even if they can't rectify it on the spot.
Martyn P said:
The other real possibility is the dreaded fuel pump.
Twice prior to the pump failing I had exactly the same problem / symptoms.
Car refused to turnover, just clicked. First time it eventually restarted, second time RAC put in a bigger battery that worked until the pump completely failed.
Have you checked pump has been changed on your car?
If the fuel pump was faulty, would it still turn over or do the circuits ‘talk’ to each other? I’d expect the engine to crank but not fire otherwise? Twice prior to the pump failing I had exactly the same problem / symptoms.
Car refused to turnover, just clicked. First time it eventually restarted, second time RAC put in a bigger battery that worked until the pump completely failed.
Have you checked pump has been changed on your car?
Could the starter motor be at fault? The solenoid is possibly receiving power from the relay (I’m guessing here based on the OP describing a relay click) but either not initiating the starter motor or the starter motor, for some reason, can’t spin the engine?
Highly unlikely but is it worth trying to rock the car in gear just to ensure the engine is free?
Martyn P said:
The other real possibility is the dreaded fuel pump.
Twice prior to the pump failing I had exactly the same problem / symptoms.
Car refused to turnover, just clicked. First time it eventually restarted, second time RAC put in a bigger battery that worked until the pump completely failed.
Have you checked pump has been changed on your car?
The pump has been changed four times I believe. Last time being the recall. It's quite the saga.Twice prior to the pump failing I had exactly the same problem / symptoms.
Car refused to turnover, just clicked. First time it eventually restarted, second time RAC put in a bigger battery that worked until the pump completely failed.
Have you checked pump has been changed on your car?
There's a chance it is the pump again. At least that is easy to access.
Simon_GH said:
If the fuel pump was faulty, would it still turn over or do the circuits ‘talk’ to each other? I’d expect the engine to crank but not fire otherwise?
Could the starter motor be at fault? The solenoid is possibly receiving power from the relay (I’m guessing here based on the OP describing a relay click) but either not initiating the starter motor or the starter motor, for some reason, can’t spin the engine?
Highly unlikely but is it worth trying to rock the car in gear just to ensure the engine is free?
I have rocked the car & it seems free enough, but I can't be sure if it was in gear or in neutral. Having owned the car for just days I'm not familiar with the operation of the gearbox other than to drive it when the engine is on.Could the starter motor be at fault? The solenoid is possibly receiving power from the relay (I’m guessing here based on the OP describing a relay click) but either not initiating the starter motor or the starter motor, for some reason, can’t spin the engine?
Highly unlikely but is it worth trying to rock the car in gear just to ensure the engine is free?
I will look into this again tomorrow, but right now, like you, I think the starter motor is most likely the cause.
If you are the new owner is it not worth talking to the dealer you bought it from?
Sorry if being obvious. You may have bought it privately.
I love mine, only had it a month and have put 1000 miles on it, now at 4800.
But there are so many electronic bits that can disable the car, it does worry me.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
Sorry if being obvious. You may have bought it privately.
I love mine, only had it a month and have put 1000 miles on it, now at 4800.
But there are so many electronic bits that can disable the car, it does worry me.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
croyde said:
If you are the new owner is it not worth talking to the dealer you bought it from?
Sorry if being obvious. You may have bought it privately.
I love mine, only had it a month and have put 1000 miles on it, now at 4800.
But there are so many electronic bits that can disable the car, it does worry me.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
Yes, private purchase & no warranty on the car as it was first registered in 2020. The last dealer to work on it are 8hrs drive away. I don't mind working on cars, but might take this to an independant workshop nearby if it gets too difficult. I'd love to dignose it first if I can though.Sorry if being obvious. You may have bought it privately.
I love mine, only had it a month and have put 1000 miles on it, now at 4800.
But there are so many electronic bits that can disable the car, it does worry me.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
As you have just bought it, I suppose you've contacted the dealer or was it private.
Such a shame with it being new to you.
I love mine and have put 1000 miles on it since buying a month ago. It only had 3800 at a year and a half old.
But all the dependency on electronics does worry me.
I know if the brake switch goes it can't send a signal to the gear selector switches to say that you are indeed pressing the brake, in order for you to be able to then select D, R or N.
It is my first modern auto.
Previous were a Cortina MK4, a Citroen CX2400 and a Mercury Grand Marquis.
Proper gas guzzling slush boxes.
Such a shame with it being new to you.
I love mine and have put 1000 miles on it since buying a month ago. It only had 3800 at a year and a half old.
But all the dependency on electronics does worry me.
I know if the brake switch goes it can't send a signal to the gear selector switches to say that you are indeed pressing the brake, in order for you to be able to then select D, R or N.
It is my first modern auto.
Previous were a Cortina MK4, a Citroen CX2400 and a Mercury Grand Marquis.
Proper gas guzzling slush boxes.
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