What is ownership through solemn rights? (Scotland)

[TonyRPH]

I've just seen a video on Youtube - the property owner is denying access to Network Rail and claiming land ownership through 'solemn rights'.

So what is / are solemn rights?

[mikebradford]

Likely easier to have written the term into Google

[silentbrown]

mikebradford said:

Likely easier to have written the term into Google

Seeing as this thread is already one of the top hits, that's unlikely.
My guess is it's FOTL wibble, but a link to the youtube clip might be more informative.

[bobthemonkey]

TonyRPH said:

I've just seen a video on Youtube - the property owner is denying access to Network Rail and claiming land ownership through 'solemn rights'.

So what is / are solemn rights?

Is this Altn*breac case?

Edited by bobthemonkey on Saturday 21st September 17:58

[TonyRPH]

bobthemonkey said:

Is this Altn*breac case?

Edited by bobthemonkey on Saturday 21st September 17:58

It is yes.

[Chrisgr31]

I have heard about this case several times recently. It’s odd

[reddiesel]

I believe this is done through the process of Adverse Possession where you have perhaps been in possession of the Land for a period of time and can make application to the Land Registry to be the Registered Owner , 12 years I think in Scotland . This said and being Scottish Law I wouldn't bet the house on it

[Chrisgr31]

That would explain why is was a dispute under the previous owner, as current owner not been there 12 years.

However quite how you can get adverse possession when people are catching trains is anyone's guess.

[surveyor]

This article is illuminating

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/couple-at-al...

Basically a couple of nutters making a pest of themselves.

[TonyRPH]

surveyor said:

This article is illuminating

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/couple-at-al...

Basically a couple of nutters making a pest of themselves.

This is what I watching on Youtube.

I had suspected this was something along the lines of adverse possession.

[ohreally]

I had a mate, who with his father, fenced off land to claim as theirs once enough time had elapsed if no-one challenged them. Iirc he was quoting 20 years and then they could claim ownership.

[surveyor]

Youtube threw this up on my timeline, so I watched a bit. Had to turn it off in exasperation.

Policeman. "Have you taken legal advice"
Nutter "I don't need to"

I occasionally deal with people like this, and they are exasperating. I can't say much more in case it comes back to haunt me...

[bobthemonkey]

surveyor said:

Youtube threw this up on my timeline, so I watched a bit. Had to turn it off in exasperation.

Policeman. "Have you taken legal advice"
Nutter "I don't need to"

I occasionally deal with people like this, and they are exasperating. I can't say much more in case it comes back to haunt me...

The individuals mentioned apparently have a habit of finding threads in which they feature and start to get involved. This normally doesn’t go too well in these ‘ere parts.

[silentbrown]

bobthemonkey said:

The individuals mentioned apparently have a habit of finding threads in which they feature and start to get involved. This normally doesn’t go too well in these ‘ere parts.

I was wondering why you'd stuck an asterisk in the name!

[Mont Blanc]

I'm engrossed in this Altnabreac soap opera at the moment!

It's like watching a car crash happen. It's awful but you can't look away. Fascinating.

At first you think the homeowners are being reasonable - Simply asking Network Rail to ask for their permission before crossing their garden to reach the station. They appear to have legit land titles printed off the Scottish version of Land Registry, and so on, showing the whole of their garden as belonging to the title.

But the more you watch... the more complicated it looks.

For anyone wondering what on earth we are all talking about, it is here:

https://www.youtube.com/@ALTNABREAC/videos

They posted a link to their title plan in one of their videos:

https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/map-search/CTH7726/1

Edited by Mont Blanc on Sunday 22 September 21:35

[guitarcarfanatic]

Yep, it’s a clearly a land registry error or similar. This is classic weaponise error, maximise ego and try to gain publicity. I just jokingly wished network rail good luck on one of the YouTube videos and had my morals questioned - I pointed out depriving a local community of a train station is the morally questionable thing here.

They just don’t seem to be acting like anyone not looking for a fight / publicity. Surely you engage with network rail, come up with a sensible agreement, I suspect they would even bung them some cash to tidy up the legal side of an easement.

[Mont Blanc]

guitarcarfanatic said:

Yep, it’s a clearly a land registry error or similar. This is classic weaponise error, maximise ego and try to gain publicity. I just jokingly wished network rail good luck on one of the YouTube videos and had my morals questioned - I pointed out depriving a local community of a train station is the morally questionable thing here.

They just don’t seem to be acting like anyone not looking for a fight / publicity. Surely you engage with network rail, come up with a sensible agreement, I suspect they would even bung them some cash to tidy up the legal side of an easement.

They claim in one of their videos that the previous owner had a written agreement with Network Rail whereby they agreed to give him notice for vehicle access where possible, and also paid a small nominal sum each time they needed to access the land with vehicles. They say that they just want the same written agreement as before, and Network Rail claim they don't need an agreement and that they can access whenever they like.

I obviously have no clue as to how true any of that is from either side.

[guitarcarfanatic]

Mont Blanc said:

They claim in one of their videos that the previous owner had a written agreement with Network Rail whereby they agreed to give him notice for vehicle access where possible, and also paid a small nominal sum each time they needed to access the land with vehicles. They say that they just want the same written agreement as before, and Network Rail claim they don't need an agreement and that they can access whenever they like.

I obviously have no clue as to how true any of that is from either side.

This feels more about them than finding a solution Good luck to Network Rail and good luck to them - the only people who suffer are the locals unfortunately.

They both jumped on my Youtube comment - the lady and then the bloke!

[Mont Blanc]

guitarcarfanatic said:

This feels more about them than finding a solution Good luck to Network Rail and good luck to them - the only people who suffer are the locals unfortunately.

They both jumped on my Youtube comment - the lady and then the bloke!

The locals are the ones suffering, I totally agree. The station has now been closed for almost a year now.

As I said, the YouTube channel is like watching a car crash happen!

If I had to guess wildly at what might happen, it is that a court will order them to allow access by Network Rail, but I could be wrong.

[surveyor]

Mont Blanc said:

guitarcarfanatic said:

This feels more about them than finding a solution Good luck to Network Rail and good luck to them - the only people who suffer are the locals unfortunately.

They both jumped on my Youtube comment - the lady and then the bloke!

The locals are the ones suffering, I totally agree. The station has now been closed for almost a year now.

As I said, the YouTube channel is like watching a car crash happen!

If I had to guess wildly at what might happen, it is that a court will order them to allow access by Network Rail, but I could be wrong.

It would need to be wider... To allow access by customers too...