Wednesday 18th September

'Make an offer' with PistonHeads auctions

Nervous about missing an auction? Here's how you can buy a car before it has even started

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In little over a year since its launch, we’ve helped you buy and sell more than £1million worth of cars, safe and hassle free with PistonHeads auctions. We want to make it as easy to buy and sell in our marketplace as it is to belong in our community, all in one curated place.

You’ve been vocal with your feedback in what is a rapidly evolving market, and we are constantly innovating and improving our platform as a result. Some of you have approached us wanting to make an upfront offer on a car before the auction has even started - and we get it. There's nothing worse than living in fear of someone else snapping up the perfect car you've been nervously waiting for. And now you don't have to with our new 'Make an offer' feature! 

Once you’ve registered to bid, you can make an offer to the seller based on what you think the car is worth on the auction listing. Offers can only be made while the car is in ‘coming soon’ and not when the auction is live. Just like regular bids, all offers are binding and subject to our buyer’s fee. You can make as many offers as you like up until 48 hours before the auction is due to start.

Offers will be sent to our consignment team, who will present it to the seller directly. If your offer is accepted, the car will be considered sold and there will be no subsequent auction. If your offer is rejected, you can place another one or wait and bid in the auction once it has gone live. It’s as simple as that.

And remember - for anyone with a dream car to sell, PistonHeads auctions are easy to use with no seller’s premium, so you’ll receive 100 per cent of the hammer price. We help to arrange photography, write a transparent description detailing everything under the hood, and manage your listing from start to finish until your car is sold. Get in touch today to find out more.

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Browse all live auctions here

[murphyaj]

So in this scenario the car goes on your website, someone sees it, decides what they are willing to pay for it and makes an offer to the seller. The seller then decides if they want to sell for that price and, if they do, accepts the offer. The buyer then meets the seller and buys the car.

In other words just like regular classified ads have been working for years. Except by calling it a new thing Pistonheads gets to keep 6% of the value of the car.

Whoever came up with this idea needs a promotion.

[Terminator X]

PH trying to make a $, give them a break!

TX.

[nismo48]

In for a penny etc.....

[Olivergt]

murphyaj said:

So in this scenario the car goes on your website, someone sees it, decides what they are willing to pay for it and makes an offer to the seller. The seller then decides if they want to sell for that price and, if they do, accepts the offer. The buyer then meets the seller and buys the car.

In other words just like regular classified ads have been working for years. Except by calling it a new thing Pistonheads gets to keep 6% of the value of the car.

Whoever came up with this idea needs a promotion.

Actually, you get to pay 6% over the offer price as there are no sellers fees, so the the buyer has to pay! Or am I reading that wrong.

[Olivergt]

Over £1 million worth of cars in a year.

That doesn't sound like very much at all. I wonder if that's a typo? Surely it should be a lot higher than that?

1,000,000 = 10 cars at 100,000 each
or
1,000,000 = 100 cars at 10,000 each

[murphyaj]

Olivergt said:

murphyaj said:

So in this scenario the car goes on your website, someone sees it, decides what they are willing to pay for it and makes an offer to the seller. The seller then decides if they want to sell for that price and, if they do, accepts the offer. The buyer then meets the seller and buys the car.

In other words just like regular classified ads have been working for years. Except by calling it a new thing Pistonheads gets to keep 6% of the value of the car.

Whoever came up with this idea needs a promotion.

Actually, you get to pay 6% over the offer price as there are no sellers fees, so the the buyer has to pay! Or am I reading that wrong.

Technically yes, the full offer price goes to the seller, then 6% of that gets added on and goes to PH, so you did read it right. Ultimately though it's just different sides of the same coin. The buyer will (or should) know they are paying 7.2% on top of the agreed price in fees (6% + VAT) and will factor that into the offer.

You can call it a buyers fee, a sellers fee, a transaction fee, a convenience fee, commission, surcharge or whatever other name you fancy, but whatever you call it PH is getting 6% of the value of the car.

Edited by murphyaj on Wednesday 18th September 16:18

[Scot44]

The Buyer fee is actually 7.2% once you have included VAT. Any sane person will reduce their offer by the 7.2% so they dont pay more than their idea of 'market', so it is the Seller who loses the 7.2% and PH takes it, even if a deal is done before the official auction starts. What isnt clear to me is if the Buyer has 'one bullet' to make an offer or whether the Seller can reject it and suggest a price they would accept? If so, you are already having a 1-2-1 auction and favouring the early worm who makes an offer before the auction starts. If the car is sold before the auction starts, there must be a cost saving for PH not having to run the online auction, so if I was PH I would reduce the Buyer's commission and get deals done early in the process and create some FOMO among buyers who miss out. When I approached PH to sell my car they told me they require the Seller pays £175 for a professional photo shoot in order that they have 'independent eyes' on the car, so that is jut another cost for the Seller. I agree with the comment that £1m is a disappointing value of cars sold at auction by PH, which is still a big brand for petrolheads, so it sounds like something isnt working. As a Seller, that uncertainty is just another reason I am going with a more established auction website for now.

[bigandclever]

Olivergt said:

Over £1 million worth of cars in a year.

That doesn't sound like very much at all. I wonder if that's a typo? Surely it should be a lot higher than that?

1,000,000 = 10 cars at 100,000 each
or
1,000,000 = 100 cars at 10,000 each

If you could be arsed (I know I can't) you could look at the 129 Sold ads on the Auctions page and work it out.

[12V8]

Perhaps they should auction the auction site

[Whatever123]

12V8 said:

Perhaps they should auction the auction site

Would it be open to offers before the auction starts though

[RacingPete]

murphyaj said:

Olivergt said:

murphyaj said:

So in this scenario the car goes on your website, someone sees it, decides what they are willing to pay for it and makes an offer to the seller. The seller then decides if they want to sell for that price and, if they do, accepts the offer. The buyer then meets the seller and buys the car.

In other words just like regular classified ads have been working for years. Except by calling it a new thing Pistonheads gets to keep 6% of the value of the car.

Whoever came up with this idea needs a promotion.

Actually, you get to pay 6% over the offer price as there are no sellers fees, so the the buyer has to pay! Or am I reading that wrong.

Technically yes, the full offer price goes to the seller, then 6% of that gets added on and goes to PH, so you did read it right. Ultimately though it's just different sides of the same coin. The buyer will (or should) know they are paying 7.2% on top of the agreed price in fees (6% + VAT) and will factor that into the offer.

You can call it a buyers fee, a sellers fee, a transaction fee, a convenience fee, commission, surcharge or whatever other name you fancy, but whatever you call it PH is getting 6% of the value of the car.

Edited by murphyaj on Wednesday 18th September 16:18

Yep, PistonHeads is getting on a bit and we lost our fuel allowance so we need to feed the hamsters somehow.

Though, seriously, we still have classifieds if you fancy that route and it is still free for long term members so we are just giving different options on how to buy and sell the PH type cars we all love. And with the auction cars you get a bit more of an editorial and hand holding experience.

On the amount we have sold we are rounding to a nice number for article sense and you can go and work it out for sure, but to help we have been increasing cars for sale and that average price month on month has gone up since the beginning of the year. We are around 40 cars a month now from a standing start which is where we hoped to be.

Thanks for all the feedback as always

[Dog Biscuit]

Id suggest a more palatable 'fee' for this route to conclusion of the sale would be a flat fee of say £250

Given the fact PH are not really hosting anything other than a glorified advert

I can see the logic in an increased revenue if PH hosts the auction in its entirety though.

6% of sale price is a bit rich

[StradoZ]

Just as a general comment on PH auctions, they actually worked for me, after having my vehicle listed on all the classified sites for quite a few months with a few people coming close to buying before dropping out for various personal and financial reasons and the usual dose of fraudsters and time wasters, I decided to investigate PH auctions.

I think the journalist-style write up they do is good and certainly the professional photographs help (although I have fed back about how this is suggested to the seller, it came across as a bit sketchy at first to me, forcing me to pay a photographer directly when I already had photos). Using the professional photographers and their own write-ups they do maintain a level of quality over all the listings.

The vehicle sold for more than I'd ended up reducing my classified ad to in the end and the extra covered the photographer fee so It worked out well for me.

PH does have access to a different audience than eBay, you'd assume there are more knowledgable and interested parties looking on PH and if you combine that with the standards of the listings using professional photographers and write-ups then I think they are making a good case for it to work.

I was suspicious at first but in my experience it worked well so I would consider using this method again.

[Panamax]

Dog Biscuit said:

Id suggest a more palatable 'fee' for this route to conclusion of the sale would be a flat fee of say £250

Why? It's an auction and the buyer fee is payable on the selling price. I don't see it makes any difference whether the auction runs to conclusion, has ended early or never starts. The car was entered for the auction process, the car has sold, the fee is payable.

[V12GT]

I’d normally expect to see a guide price on an auction, particularly for a “buy it now”.

Why does PH omit this, despite having them when the auctions started?

[Dog Biscuit]

Panamax said:

Dog Biscuit said:

Id suggest a more palatable 'fee' for this route to conclusion of the sale would be a flat fee of say £250

Why? It's an auction and the buyer fee is payable on the selling price. I don't see it makes any difference whether the auction runs to conclusion, has ended early or never starts. The car was entered for the auction process, the car has sold, the fee is payable.

Because the auction hasn't started so it's more like an advert.

There's an argument for either way tbh but for me it seems punchy

[Tye Green]

I'm not sure if previous poster on this thread realise, but when you're the 'winner' of the PH auction all you have bought is the contact details of the seller.
Specifically within PH T&C it tells you to negotiate or similar with the seller who has no obligation to sell the car to you and you have no obligation to buy it.

Of course, at this point you have already paid PH 6%+ vat ...

I fully expect this post to be redacted...

[Olivergt]

Tye Green said:

I'm not sure if previous poster on this thread realise, but when you're the 'winner' of the PH auction all you have bought is the contact details of the seller.
Specifically within PH T&C it tells you to negotiate or similar with the seller who has no obligation to sell the car to you and you have no obligation to buy it.

Of course, at this point you have already paid PH 6%+ vat ...

I fully expect this post to be redacted...

Looking at the Ts&Cs it appears you do have an obligation to buy, but I can't find anywhere that says the seller has an obligation to sell?

Maybe someone from PH can confirm that the final auction price (assuiming th reserve has been met) is binding on both buyer and seller?

[murphyaj]

Olivergt said:

Tye Green said:

I'm not sure if previous poster on this thread realise, but when you're the 'winner' of the PH auction all you have bought is the contact details of the seller.
Specifically within PH T&C it tells you to negotiate or similar with the seller who has no obligation to sell the car to you and you have no obligation to buy it.

Of course, at this point you have already paid PH 6%+ vat ...

I fully expect this post to be redacted...

Looking at the Ts&Cs it appears you do have an obligation to buy, but I can't find anywhere that says the seller has an obligation to sell?

Maybe someone from PH can confirm that the final auction price (assuiming th reserve has been met) is binding on both buyer and seller?

This is covered in the terms and conditions, section 4.1.4

> "it is the responsibility of a Buyer and Seller, respectively, to negotiate the terms of a binding transaction and enter into a formal contract, and such contracting, is outside of the scope of this Agreement and the Auction Services, neither of which bind the parties to each other"

This is also made very clear in section 2.6

> "PistonHeads is not a party to any vehicle sale contract between Buyers and Sellers that originates on or through the Site or Auction Services."

So when the bidding finishes (or, presumably, a pre-auction offer is accepted) PH take their fee, and that is the end of the matter for them. Any subsequent transaction between the buyer and seller is between the two of them, PH have nothing to do with it. When you place your bid you agree to pay 7.2% of that amount (inc VAT) to PH, but the seller does not appear to be under any contractual obligation to sell you the car if they don't like the price.

Conversely if the buyer decides the car doesn't match the description, If they turn up and discover an undisclosed fault, then they still pay their multi-thousand pound fee to PH and it's up to them to try and recover those costs from the seller if they can.

PH are perfectly up front and honest that you have absolutely zero buyer protection in any way from them, they do not pretend otherwise. Their fee is payable on the end of the auction, is non-refundable under any circumstances, and once paid you are on your own. They are also crystal clear that they make no attempt to inspect the car in any way, beyond a history check and a visual inspection by their approved photographer (if the seller chooses to use one), as per section 4.8:

> "We do not inspect any vehicles that a Seller lists on the Auction Services. You acknowledge and agree that PistonHeads bears no risk associated with purchasing a vehicle from a Seller listed via the Auction Services."

Thus I actually see a PH auction as much more risky than buying a car on eBay. If I win an eBay auction I can turn up, inspect the car, and if I find it's not as described I can walk away. The seller might be annoyed, but they'll be able to re-list it for free. I've actually bought a few cars on eBay and felt quite comfortable, knowing that there isn't really any risk on my side as if it's not as described I've lost nothing. Had I done the same through PH I might find myself hundreds or even thousands of pounds poorer facing a choice of taking a hit or trying to reclaim my buyers fee from the seller in court.

[Dog Biscuit]

Thanks for digesting and posting up the salient points.

Very clear.

Personally there's not a snowballs chance in hell I'd risk a 'buy' via this format.

Aside from the potential expenses, it's all weighted to the seller and the platform with the very real possibility of a wallet hoovering and no car to show for it.

I just can't see the attraction tbh