Bought a counterfeit watch

[TCruise]

Hi

Hoping for some advice please

I bought a watch at auction.
Lot details stated " watch marked Breitling"
The Lot stated it has a genuine Breitling movement.
The Lot also stated that they do not give any assurance over authenticity.
The auction T&C's state it's a trade auction, the buyer basically has no rights, it rules out various legal rights etc.

I (stupidly as it turns out) bought a watch which is mostly fake.
The bracelet which has Breitling branding on it, is fake.
The case, which has Breitling branding on it, is fake.

I have not delved further, but am guessing other parts could be fake as well.

I would like to return the watch.

I just wondered what on what basis I have, if any, right to return the watch?

I wondered if they have the right to exclude all of my rights, simply because they say they can?

I also wonder the legality of them selling fake goods, even if they state they cannot assure the authenticity of what they are selling? Was the sale illegal in any event, as a branded item (eg the Breitling branded bracelet) is fake.

Also, whether I can twist their arm with Trading Standards, or anything similar.

Pretty gutted about my stupidity on this. I thought I'd conducted all checks, turns out I did not. I am thousands out of pocket.

Thanks.

[EW109]

I can't help on the actual question but (without rubbing it in) making a high-value purchase at auction without inspecting the lot is pretty foolish.

There are two golden rules when buying at auction:

1. Do not believe a word in the catalogue entry.
2. Inspect the lot in person and form your own view.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Sorry mate, the listing seems to make it crystal clear it might not be a genuine Breitling from what you say. It isn't illegal to sell a 'homage' unless they say it's genuine, which they haven't.

Think you're stuffed.

[alscar]

The Lot also stated that they do not give any assurance over authenticity.
The auction T&C's state it's a trade auction, the buyer basically has no rights, it rules out various legal rights etc.

Unfortunately I think you have answered your own question.

[Caddyshack]

Bung it back in the auction and forget about it. Or wear it if you like it.

[Tony_T]

How much did you pay for it? which auction was it from?

[DickyC]

Caddyshack said:

Bung it back in the auction and forget about it. Or wear it if you like it.

Maybe a different auction. I've seen cars bought at auction that came back the following week and were avoided like the plague. I imagine that holds good for most auctions. If it has to be the same auction, leave it a while.

[Mont Blanc]

Photos?

[CloudStuff]

TCruise said:

Hi

Hoping for some advice please

I bought a watch at auction.
Lot details stated " watch marked Breitling"
The Lot stated it has a genuine Breitling movement.
The Lot also stated that they do not give any assurance over authenticity.
The auction T&C's state it's a trade auction, the buyer basically has no rights, it rules out various legal rights etc.

I (stupidly as it turns out) bought a watch which is mostly fake.
The bracelet which has Breitling branding on it, is fake.
The case, which has Breitling branding on it, is fake.

I have not delved further, but am guessing other parts could be fake as well.

I would like to return the watch.

I just wondered what on what basis I have, if any, right to return the watch?

I wondered if they have the right to exclude all of my rights, simply because they say they can?

I also wonder the legality of them selling fake goods, even if they state they cannot assure the authenticity of what they are selling? Was the sale illegal in any event, as a branded item (eg the Breitling branded bracelet) is fake.

Also, whether I can twist their arm with Trading Standards, or anything similar.

Pretty gutted about my stupidity on this. I thought I'd conducted all checks, turns out I did not. I am thousands out of pocket.

Thanks.

[bad company]

A case of Caveat emptor imo.

[Wheelspinning]

For obvious reasons you have not mentioned the auction site, but having a skiff through the watch collecting auction site t&t's I think that there seems to be zero comeback if you are the buyer....

Maybe I have misinterpreted that though.

[Durzel]

TCruise said:

Hi
I wondered if they have the right to exclude all of my rights, simply because they say they can?

I don't think you (anyone) necessarily has immutable rights that it ought to be impossible for you to be sold something that is counterfeit.

People buy counterfeit products all the time, usually knowing by virtue of the source and/or their cost that they are counterfeit.

Since you say you're "thousands out of pocket" it would be reasonable to presume you thought you were buying a genuine watch, as opposed to if you'd paid £200 or something - it wouldn't be a credible argument in such cases.

Unfortunately it sounds like the T&Cs are pretty solid, I'd be surprised if they weren't legally robust given the risks inherent in the business opartions of a auction house. It is a reasonable position that they could not practically authenticate everything that comes through, hence the disclaimer.

Sadly I think you're probably stuffed if they just point you to their T&Cs.

[Gareth79]

Was it a legitimate auctioneer? I ask because if they were able to say that the movement was genuine but silent about the rest then it sounds like they may have been in the know on the source and authenticity, although they may have been repeating a description from the vendor.

[dudleybloke]

Get the movement checked for authenticity.
If its moody you could stand a chance of rejecting it as they said it was genuine.

[Jamescrs]

I have to say based on the description in the original past it would jump out at me as some kind of fake or butchered watch in some way.

Will be very difficult to do anything about it given the description, unless you can prove that the movement inside the watch is not a Brietling movement maybe?

[Rushjob]

If it is a UK site then it matters not what their T&C's say, they cannot override UK law and UK law has lots of interesting things to say about selling counterfeit items.

A quick chat with Citizens Advice or any lawyer knowing about trade marks and IP stuff may be useful.

[Rushjob]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Sorry mate, the listing seems to make it crystal clear it might not be a genuine Breitling from what you say. It isn't illegal to sell a 'homage' unless they say it's genuine, which they haven't.

Think you're stuffed.

Quite the opposite. They have suggested in their own listing that they are offering a counterfeit item which is actually an aggravating factor for them in any legal case. You cannot represent any trademarked item as anything other than genuine.

[Vasco]

TCruise said:

Hi

Hoping for some advice please

I bought a watch at auction.
Lot details stated " watch marked Breitling"
The Lot stated it has a genuine Breitling movement.
The Lot also stated that they do not give any assurance over authenticity.
The auction T&C's state it's a trade auction, the buyer basically has no rights, it rules out various legal rights etc.

I (stupidly as it turns out) bought a watch which is mostly fake.
The bracelet which has Breitling branding on it, is fake.
The case, which has Breitling branding on it, is fake.

I have not delved further, but am guessing other parts could be fake as well.

I would like to return the watch.

I just wondered what on what basis I have, if any, right to return the watch?

I wondered if they have the right to exclude all of my rights, simply because they say they can?

I also wonder the legality of them selling fake goods, even if they state they cannot assure the authenticity of what they are selling? Was the sale illegal in any event, as a branded item (eg the Breitling branded bracelet) is fake.

Also, whether I can twist their arm with Trading Standards, or anything similar.

Pretty gutted about my stupidity on this. I thought I'd conducted all checks, turns out I did not. I am thousands out of pocket.

Thanks.

Not at all sure why you went ahead to buy it. Just about everything suggests that it's one to avoid.
The listing is perfectly clear that they have no responibiity and there's nothing more you can do.
At least you've recognised that it was a mighty stupid thing to do.
.

[TCruise]

Rushjob said:

If it is a UK site then it matters not what their T&C's say, they cannot override UK law and UK law has lots of interesting things to say about selling counterfeit items.

A quick chat with Citizens Advice or any lawyer knowing about trade marks and IP stuff may be useful.

Honestly, trying to speak to Citizens Advice is as helpful as screaming into an echo chamber

[TCruise]

dudleybloke said:

Get the movement checked for authenticity.
If its moody you could stand a chance of rejecting it as they said it was genuine.

Thanks, am doing that.