Petrol plug in hybrid & long trips
Discussion
Hi,
Perhaps stupid question, I'm starting to consider the next family car and am thinking a hybrid would be a good choice. Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
I'm looking at petrol plug in hybrids as they happen to be the cars I like, and whilst they seem to work well for my day to day school drop off life, I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
I'm looking at the Q7 3.0 TFSI e Hybrid. I like german stuff, if there is something from BMW, Merc etc that could do a better job as a hybrid please point me in the right direction. I don't need 7 seats but want a larger car as have a couple of larger dogs as well as 2 kids.
Cheers
Perhaps stupid question, I'm starting to consider the next family car and am thinking a hybrid would be a good choice. Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
I'm looking at petrol plug in hybrids as they happen to be the cars I like, and whilst they seem to work well for my day to day school drop off life, I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
I'm looking at the Q7 3.0 TFSI e Hybrid. I like german stuff, if there is something from BMW, Merc etc that could do a better job as a hybrid please point me in the right direction. I don't need 7 seats but want a larger car as have a couple of larger dogs as well as 2 kids.
Cheers
I used to have a 2017 Panamera Hybrid, it did have an option to charge, and retain the charge for when you need it, traffic jams on the motorway were always nice in E mode..
I think most other hybrids have the same option. The EV range on that car was never very good though. On a longer run the MPG did suffer, I found I had to be doing a lot of EV driving to get the best MPG figures. But most as of my trips were small, I usually didn't have to fill it's tank for a month which was nice.
Not sure what your budget is, but another option for you could be the X5 45e, with the larger battery, you should be able to get an EV range of 44 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409023...
I think most other hybrids have the same option. The EV range on that car was never very good though. On a longer run the MPG did suffer, I found I had to be doing a lot of EV driving to get the best MPG figures. But most as of my trips were small, I usually didn't have to fill it's tank for a month which was nice.
Not sure what your budget is, but another option for you could be the X5 45e, with the larger battery, you should be able to get an EV range of 44 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409023...
Deranged Rover said:
Genuine question - given that self-charging hybrids exist, why would anyone bother with one that still needs to be plugged in? It seems to me to offer both the disadvantages of ICE and electric in one handy package!
The plug ins self charge as well through regen, anything beyond that on a self charge is using fuel to recharge, when grid electricity is cheaper when parked up.VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Hi,
Perhaps stupid question, I'm starting to consider the next family car and am thinking a hybrid would be a good choice. Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
I'm looking at petrol plug in hybrids as they happen to be the cars I like, and whilst they seem to work well for my day to day school drop off life, I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
I'm looking at the Q7 3.0 TFSI e Hybrid. I like german stuff, if there is something from BMW, Merc etc that could do a better job as a hybrid please point me in the right direction. I don't need 7 seats but want a larger car as have a couple of larger dogs as well as 2 kids.
Cheers
Watch this review of the X5 45e, goes into all of that and yes the car will eek out the electric to support your fuel economy, my experience of both a 45e and 50e is that they can run through the EV power pretty soon and yes you'll end up with sub 20mpg if you don't set off with a full battery. Perhaps stupid question, I'm starting to consider the next family car and am thinking a hybrid would be a good choice. Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
I'm looking at petrol plug in hybrids as they happen to be the cars I like, and whilst they seem to work well for my day to day school drop off life, I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
I'm looking at the Q7 3.0 TFSI e Hybrid. I like german stuff, if there is something from BMW, Merc etc that could do a better job as a hybrid please point me in the right direction. I don't need 7 seats but want a larger car as have a couple of larger dogs as well as 2 kids.
Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y__PfXB4f0g
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Hi,
Perhaps stupid question, I'm starting to consider the next family car and am thinking a hybrid would be a good choice. Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
I'm looking at petrol plug in hybrids as they happen to be the cars I like, and whilst they seem to work well for my day to day school drop off life, I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
I'm looking at the Q7 3.0 TFSI e Hybrid. I like german stuff, if there is something from BMW, Merc etc that could do a better job as a hybrid please point me in the right direction. I don't need 7 seats but want a larger car as have a couple of larger dogs as well as 2 kids.
Cheers
On long journeys the battery system of a PHEV offers no benefits to speak of. There is often an option to make the engine charge up the battery, but this offers no mpg benefit and would only be of use if (for example) you wanted to switch to battery only when driving in a built up area.Perhaps stupid question, I'm starting to consider the next family car and am thinking a hybrid would be a good choice. Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
I'm looking at petrol plug in hybrids as they happen to be the cars I like, and whilst they seem to work well for my day to day school drop off life, I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
I'm looking at the Q7 3.0 TFSI e Hybrid. I like german stuff, if there is something from BMW, Merc etc that could do a better job as a hybrid please point me in the right direction. I don't need 7 seats but want a larger car as have a couple of larger dogs as well as 2 kids.
Cheers
As others have said, the PHEV battery is no use at all on longer trips - the big benefit is the ability to use EV/hybrid for lots of shorter trips (basically EV running costs for that), while also being able to fill up with petrol for longer trips.
If your usage is lots of short trips with occasional long ones, then it makes sense, whereas if most of your trips are longer than the EV range you're probably better off with something else (BEV/ICE).
Our 2020 XC60 T8 will do about 70/80mpg while running on hybrid for 20ish miles, but drops to about 30mpg when the battery is done, although it's hard to drive a near 400php car with fuel economy as a top priority.
Older PHEVs will tend to do about 20 miles on electric, whereas newer ones might do 40-50.
If your usage is lots of short trips with occasional long ones, then it makes sense, whereas if most of your trips are longer than the EV range you're probably better off with something else (BEV/ICE).
Our 2020 XC60 T8 will do about 70/80mpg while running on hybrid for 20ish miles, but drops to about 30mpg when the battery is done, although it's hard to drive a near 400php car with fuel economy as a top priority.
Older PHEVs will tend to do about 20 miles on electric, whereas newer ones might do 40-50.
We do Reading to near Exeter a few times a year in a X3 PHEV. It's around 150 miles going M4/M5. FWIW there is usually a bit of battery left by the time we arrive. No idea what MPG it achieves but I enjoy the extra shove from the battery. It obviously tops up a fair bit when off the gas or braking when motorway cruising.
It's a company car so the choice was dictated rather than trying to save fuel costs.
It's a company car so the choice was dictated rather than trying to save fuel costs.
I did the maths on a Volvo Recharge for us but came to the conclusion that other than the first 30 miles or so of our three day drive to Spain that we would be going slower and using more fuel because the empty batteries need hauling about.
So naturally the only alternative was a V8.
So naturally the only alternative was a V8.
JD said:
For such low mileage why wouldn’t you get an EV?
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Usage profile is I work from home, take kids to school (max 25 mile round trip if doing both schools) and it's used for long trips to France, Spain, Scotland, Wales etc.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
I can't get a straight answer from the dealers on what sort of benefit the battery system has on my longer trips. Will it recharge and support the fuel economy on a 500-1000 mile drive or will I effectively have a thirsty petrol engine doing 18mpg pulling along a heavy car so diesel still makes more sense?
IINM, the latest tech plug-in hybrids work in conjunction with the sat-nav to use the battery power in the most efficient way.So, for example, if you programme a destination as Central London, with a long motorway journey to get there followed by a city drive to reach your final destination, it will save the battery power for the city part and revert to the ICE on the motorway section.
Ultimately, it depends on how many of these long 500-1000 mile drives you're doing.
If it's once every other month, you'll maybe benefit from a plug-in hybrid.
If it's every week, you may not.
I borrowed a Velar P400e petrol plug-in hybrid for a trip to Le Mans last year as my ropey old L322 let me down.
It typically wants to use the battery as much as possible during the first part of your journey, so most people will use the EV mode most often. In this kind of driving the economy is excellent, if you can charge at home it'd be nearly as good as a proper EV.
On a longer motorway journey it uses the battery up then uses regen to recharge it in small increments, pretty much running the petrol engine all the time and using the battery for torque fill performance. In this mode the economy was OK but not exceptional. Absolutely loaded with 3 people and luggage, driven at the speed limits, it managed 30.2mpg over the 600-odd mile journey.
One definite bonus of this kind of drivetrain is the performance available - the 400hp combined peak power really does give it a hefty shove, and the torque fill from the batteries gives it a really good feeling most of the time.
It typically wants to use the battery as much as possible during the first part of your journey, so most people will use the EV mode most often. In this kind of driving the economy is excellent, if you can charge at home it'd be nearly as good as a proper EV.
On a longer motorway journey it uses the battery up then uses regen to recharge it in small increments, pretty much running the petrol engine all the time and using the battery for torque fill performance. In this mode the economy was OK but not exceptional. Absolutely loaded with 3 people and luggage, driven at the speed limits, it managed 30.2mpg over the 600-odd mile journey.
One definite bonus of this kind of drivetrain is the performance available - the 400hp combined peak power really does give it a hefty shove, and the torque fill from the batteries gives it a really good feeling most of the time.
Deranged Rover said:
Genuine question - given that self-charging hybrids exist, why would anyone bother with one that still needs to be plugged in? It seems to me to offer both the disadvantages of ICE and electric in one handy package!
Benefit of a hybrid system = more efficient use of petrol by means of regenerative braking and in some cases clever power split arrangements leveraging most efficient operation of the engineBenefit of a plug in hybrid system - exactly the same as a hybrid system, plus a larger battery which can be charged from the mains with energy that's cheaper than petrol.
If you don't plug in a PHEV it works exactly like a standard hybrid. If you do plug it in, you get whatever the plug in range is at the energy cost of mains power, not petrol power.
Thanks all. Budget is £30-35k, the BMW looks nice but out of budget. I suppose there are a no diesel hybrids, none that I can find anyway.
RE the comment why not full EV - I can't see how it would work for us. On our European trips for example I am already limited on the AirBnBs I can book due to the dog, so adding an EV charger would limit further. In addition it's not unusual for me to cover 600 miles in a day, at the moment i stop once or twice and not for very long (in the UK it is a different story, our roads are tiring to drive on). I don't currently need to refuel at all, to me an EV would just be more hassle and prevent me using the autoroutes as intended and paid for a great expense - to cover great distances at speed. I'd be limited to truck speeds with an EV if I wanted to get decent range and not have to stop every 160-180 miles.
Longer trips for us are usually once every 3 weeks. I'm already planning on switching my wife's Q2 petrol to a full on EV so will have an EV for her commute and running about, it's just my own car is also used and some of its use profile would suit electric.
We also do running around for kids clubs etc on other weekends but the are well within EV ranges - 100 miles - however my wife's car can handle that as she doesn't work at the weekends.
RE the comment why not full EV - I can't see how it would work for us. On our European trips for example I am already limited on the AirBnBs I can book due to the dog, so adding an EV charger would limit further. In addition it's not unusual for me to cover 600 miles in a day, at the moment i stop once or twice and not for very long (in the UK it is a different story, our roads are tiring to drive on). I don't currently need to refuel at all, to me an EV would just be more hassle and prevent me using the autoroutes as intended and paid for a great expense - to cover great distances at speed. I'd be limited to truck speeds with an EV if I wanted to get decent range and not have to stop every 160-180 miles.
Longer trips for us are usually once every 3 weeks. I'm already planning on switching my wife's Q2 petrol to a full on EV so will have an EV for her commute and running about, it's just my own car is also used and some of its use profile would suit electric.
We also do running around for kids clubs etc on other weekends but the are well within EV ranges - 100 miles - however my wife's car can handle that as she doesn't work at the weekends.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Thanks all. Budget is £30-35k, the BMW looks nice but out of budget. I suppose there are a no diesel hybrids, none that I can find anyway.
It looks like there are some Merc diesel plug-in hybrids, but I think for your budget it would be a saloon or estate, not an SUV. IIRC Peugeot did some diesel hybrids, not sure if they were plug-in or not.VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Thanks all. Budget is £30-35k, the BMW looks nice but out of budget. I suppose there are a no diesel hybrids, none that I can find anyway.
RE the comment why not full EV - I can't see how it would work for us. On our European trips for example I am already limited on the AirBnBs I can book due to the dog, so adding an EV charger would limit further. In addition it's not unusual for me to cover 600 miles in a day, at the moment i stop once or twice and not for very long (in the UK it is a different story, our roads are tiring to drive on). I don't currently need to refuel at all, to me an EV would just be more hassle and prevent me using the autoroutes as intended and paid for a great expense - to cover great distances at speed. I'd be limited to truck speeds with an EV if I wanted to get decent range and not have to stop every 160-180 miles.
Longer trips for us are usually once every 3 weeks. I'm already planning on switching my wife's Q2 petrol to a full on EV so will have an EV for her commute and running about, it's just my own car is also used and some of its use profile would suit electric.
We also do running around for kids clubs etc on other weekends but the are well within EV ranges - 100 miles - however my wife's car can handle that as she doesn't work at the weekends.
Having just driven from Leeds to Rome and back (and some general travelling around Italy, I go to Italy at least once a year) in my Model Y, long distance just isn't an issue. The "Frunk" and under boot storage of the Y take 3 peoples luggage (2 adults and a teenager) and my Retriever has the boot. I get 250 miles to a charge without thinking about economy. Germany I drove at between 110 and 120 mph where ever traffic allowed. I have driven quicker in petrol cars, but even then found the effect on fuel economy and traffic meant I only did it for short blasts. Not once do I wait for the car to charge more then the time it takes me to walk the dog and grab a coffee, go for a pee etc. RE the comment why not full EV - I can't see how it would work for us. On our European trips for example I am already limited on the AirBnBs I can book due to the dog, so adding an EV charger would limit further. In addition it's not unusual for me to cover 600 miles in a day, at the moment i stop once or twice and not for very long (in the UK it is a different story, our roads are tiring to drive on). I don't currently need to refuel at all, to me an EV would just be more hassle and prevent me using the autoroutes as intended and paid for a great expense - to cover great distances at speed. I'd be limited to truck speeds with an EV if I wanted to get decent range and not have to stop every 160-180 miles.
Longer trips for us are usually once every 3 weeks. I'm already planning on switching my wife's Q2 petrol to a full on EV so will have an EV for her commute and running about, it's just my own car is also used and some of its use profile would suit electric.
We also do running around for kids clubs etc on other weekends but the are well within EV ranges - 100 miles - however my wife's car can handle that as she doesn't work at the weekends.
I'm not saying BEV is right for yourself, but I wouldn't rule one out completely. My next car will be another BEV, but now the tesla supercharger network is open to all I can't see it being another Tesla due the number of issues i'm having with it.
ZiggyNiva said:
Having just driven from Leeds to Rome and back (and some general travelling around Italy, I go to Italy at least once a year) in my Model Y, long distance just isn't an issue. The "Frunk" and under boot storage of the Y take 3 peoples luggage (2 adults and a teenager) and my Retriever has the boot. I get 250 miles to a charge without thinking about economy. Germany I drove at between 110 and 120 mph where ever traffic allowed. I have driven quicker in petrol cars, but even then found the effect on fuel economy and traffic meant I only did it for short blasts. Not once do I wait for the car to charge more then the time it takes me to walk the dog and grab a coffee, go for a pee etc.
I'm not saying BEV is right for yourself, but I wouldn't rule one out completely. My next car will be another BEV, but now the tesla supercharger network is open to all I can't see it being another Tesla due the number of issues i'm having with it.
I agree Tesla is the leader for BEV but I don't think other manufacturers can match that sort of range at those speeds. I have 2 retrievers too. I'm not saying BEV is right for yourself, but I wouldn't rule one out completely. My next car will be another BEV, but now the tesla supercharger network is open to all I can't see it being another Tesla due the number of issues i'm having with it.
Just checked and interestingly the Model Y is now in my price range. Last time I looked they were not.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Thanks all. Budget is £30-35k, the BMW looks nice but out of budget. I suppose there are a no diesel hybrids, none that I can find anyway.
RE the comment why not full EV - I can't see how it would work for us. On our European trips for example I am already limited on the AirBnBs I can book due to the dog, so adding an EV charger would limit further. In addition it's not unusual for me to cover 600 miles in a day, at the moment i stop once or twice and not for very long (in the UK it is a different story, our roads are tiring to drive on). I don't currently need to refuel at all, to me an EV would just be more hassle and prevent me using the autoroutes as intended and paid for a great expense - to cover great distances at speed. I'd be limited to truck speeds with an EV if I wanted to get decent range and not have to stop every 160-180 miles.
Longer trips for us are usually once every 3 weeks. I'm already planning on switching my wife's Q2 petrol to a full on EV so will have an EV for her commute and running about, it's just my own car is also used and some of its use profile would suit electric.
We also do running around for kids clubs etc on other weekends but the are well within EV ranges - 100 miles - however my wife's car can handle that as she doesn't work at the weekends.
Only you'll know what will work for you, but.......RE the comment why not full EV - I can't see how it would work for us. On our European trips for example I am already limited on the AirBnBs I can book due to the dog, so adding an EV charger would limit further. In addition it's not unusual for me to cover 600 miles in a day, at the moment i stop once or twice and not for very long (in the UK it is a different story, our roads are tiring to drive on). I don't currently need to refuel at all, to me an EV would just be more hassle and prevent me using the autoroutes as intended and paid for a great expense - to cover great distances at speed. I'd be limited to truck speeds with an EV if I wanted to get decent range and not have to stop every 160-180 miles.
Longer trips for us are usually once every 3 weeks. I'm already planning on switching my wife's Q2 petrol to a full on EV so will have an EV for her commute and running about, it's just my own car is also used and some of its use profile would suit electric.
We also do running around for kids clubs etc on other weekends but the are well within EV ranges - 100 miles - however my wife's car can handle that as she doesn't work at the weekends.
As you're going EV with the second car, how about a diesel for the larger car (Audi 6-cyl engine is lovely)? This was a primne consideration for me before I got my Volvo - it's my long distance hack so it had to be diesel. I have a small, limited range EV do don't really use the diesel too much locally. I had 2 days with a V90 T8 PHEV. Fantastic car but on a 250 miles motorway journey the economy plummeted, especially as the ICE was charging the battery as well as driving the car.
PHEVs are a compromise, as many others here have highlighted. If you only had one car, it might make sense. But as you may have an EV in the near future, I can't see that a PHEV would best meet your needs for long journeys.
But, your choice........
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff