F12 questions!
Discussion
I have always been a V8 Ferrari buyer and have owned 348, 355, 360, 458 and 488. I have recently sold a 488, which I thought was a great car.
I’m toying with trying a V12 and love the shape of the F12, but I know very little about them.
So….
Any must have options (especially anything that makes it hard to sell one)?
Any issues to watch out for?
What are they like to drive (compared with a 488)? Do they feel much bigger and heavier to drive? Do they sound better due to NA engine? Do they need front lift (my 488 didn’t have it and I needed it)?
The ones up for sale seem to have been around a while annd anrent selling, and we are coming to the end of summer. Are v12’s harder to sell?
Any other advice/comment welcome!
I’m toying with trying a V12 and love the shape of the F12, but I know very little about them.
So….
Any must have options (especially anything that makes it hard to sell one)?
Any issues to watch out for?
What are they like to drive (compared with a 488)? Do they feel much bigger and heavier to drive? Do they sound better due to NA engine? Do they need front lift (my 488 didn’t have it and I needed it)?
The ones up for sale seem to have been around a while annd anrent selling, and we are coming to the end of summer. Are v12’s harder to sell?
Any other advice/comment welcome!
You’ll know what to expect from the interior and controls as the F12 is the same generation as your 458.
Plenty of threads with buying advice and what to look for etc. and some of that will be similar to your 458 (DCT, shocks, discs etc). The only thing F12 specific is the corrosion of the bodywork around the mesh vents at the rear (galvanic reaction) and a leaking third brake light which allows water into the tailgate. Also, the engine head gaskets can leak.
Of course, it goes without saying that the naturally aspirated F12 sounds better than your turbo 488. In fact, I’d venture to say that the F12 sounds better than all of the Ferraris in your history apart from the F355 (speaking as another former F355 owner).
I believe that the F12 rides higher than the 458/488 but if you needed lift in those, you might need it in the F12 too. The driving experience is different, for sure, but only you can know if it’s right for you. I always felt that you needed to be on it all the time to enjoy the V8 cars but the F12 is also rewarding when you aren’t pushing it. And when you do push it, it’s mental. There’s a duality to it which is missing from the mid engine cars but it can’t compete with the V8s on track as it’s simply too heavy. Some people complain that the steering on the F12 is too quick and fidgety but this isn’t something I’ve found to be a problem.
Good luck in your search.
Plenty of threads with buying advice and what to look for etc. and some of that will be similar to your 458 (DCT, shocks, discs etc). The only thing F12 specific is the corrosion of the bodywork around the mesh vents at the rear (galvanic reaction) and a leaking third brake light which allows water into the tailgate. Also, the engine head gaskets can leak.
Of course, it goes without saying that the naturally aspirated F12 sounds better than your turbo 488. In fact, I’d venture to say that the F12 sounds better than all of the Ferraris in your history apart from the F355 (speaking as another former F355 owner).
I believe that the F12 rides higher than the 458/488 but if you needed lift in those, you might need it in the F12 too. The driving experience is different, for sure, but only you can know if it’s right for you. I always felt that you needed to be on it all the time to enjoy the V8 cars but the F12 is also rewarding when you aren’t pushing it. And when you do push it, it’s mental. There’s a duality to it which is missing from the mid engine cars but it can’t compete with the V8s on track as it’s simply too heavy. Some people complain that the steering on the F12 is too quick and fidgety but this isn’t something I’ve found to be a problem.
Good luck in your search.
Anopax covered the 2 common problem areas mesh corrosion and third brake light leak, most cars remedied now. On the market there are a few cars sticking but most are Red and large number of owners 6+. For F12 Red is not the colour and they take longer to sell, these F12’s just look better in the silver/Greys and blues compared to Red. Don’t be put off by higher mileage, I’m on my 3rd, 2 garage queens gave me problems the used one nothing, these V12’s need use and mileage and on the dot servicing, main dealer or great independent I would be looking for and preferably with at least 9 months Ferrari Approved Warranty on it, which you can then decide to renew at about £3300 per year.. lift not essential, rides slightly higher than 488, needed it on my Pista but never had the need on 488 or F12.
Something like this would be spot on for me.. colour price Carbon race seats low owners service history Ferrari warranty and 2000 miles per annum.
https://www.autostoresales.co.uk/ferrari-f12-grigi...
Brilliant brilliant cars, and when I had my first one in 2016 I did find the steering light and too sensitive but after buying my third I came from a SF90 AF and now I find the F12 steering beautifully weighted now.. like you had all the V8’s never crossed my mind to change to a front engined V12, but these F12’s feel front to mid engine setup, love them and it’s a different feeling to the V8 range. But respect cold tyres.. not the car to lean on straight off the driveway.
Congrats that you are in the market to buy, you won’t be disappointed if bought right.
Something like this would be spot on for me.. colour price Carbon race seats low owners service history Ferrari warranty and 2000 miles per annum.
https://www.autostoresales.co.uk/ferrari-f12-grigi...
Brilliant brilliant cars, and when I had my first one in 2016 I did find the steering light and too sensitive but after buying my third I came from a SF90 AF and now I find the F12 steering beautifully weighted now.. like you had all the V8’s never crossed my mind to change to a front engined V12, but these F12’s feel front to mid engine setup, love them and it’s a different feeling to the V8 range. But respect cold tyres.. not the car to lean on straight off the driveway.
Congrats that you are in the market to buy, you won’t be disappointed if bought right.
Edited by maura on Tuesday 3rd September 18:16
Chris355 said:
I have always been a V8 Ferrari buyer and have owned 348, 355, 360, 458 and 488. I have recently sold a 488, which I thought was a great car.
I’m toying with trying a V12 and love the shape of the F12, but I know very little about them.
So….
Any must have options (especially anything that makes it hard to sell one)?
Any issues to watch out for?
What are they like to drive (compared with a 488)? Do they feel much bigger and heavier to drive? Do they sound better due to NA engine? Do they need front lift (my 488 didn’t have it and I needed it)?
The ones up for sale seem to have been around a while annd anrent selling, and we are coming to the end of summer. Are v12’s harder to sell?
Any other advice/comment welcome!
this is a pretty one, its come down 8k already. likely you'd get it at a lower price and with approved used support.I’m toying with trying a V12 and love the shape of the F12, but I know very little about them.
So….
Any must have options (especially anything that makes it hard to sell one)?
Any issues to watch out for?
What are they like to drive (compared with a 488)? Do they feel much bigger and heavier to drive? Do they sound better due to NA engine? Do they need front lift (my 488 didn’t have it and I needed it)?
The ones up for sale seem to have been around a while annd anrent selling, and we are coming to the end of summer. Are v12’s harder to sell?
Any other advice/comment welcome!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407091...
Ignore that advert on autotrader… it’s a £188k car with 5000 miles..
https://www.sytner.co.uk/vehicle-details/8a91b56e-...
https://www.sytner.co.uk/vehicle-details/8a91b56e-...
Edited by maura on Tuesday 3rd September 19:35
I had a similar path. 430 -> 458 Spider -> 488 GTB -> F12 (then 488 Spider -> Huracan EVO RWD). I had a test drive in a Lusso V12 and decided then and there I needed to have the V12 noise in my life, so sold the 488 GTB for the F12.
Some context to my thoughts below. I live in the north of Scotland, so I have easy access to empty and good roads (the road where JC tested the F12 on Top Gear is about 40 minutes away). I don't track my cars, don't have to drive on motorways and don't commute in them - the cars are all weekend toys, but they do get used at the weekends.
Coming from the 488 GTB, although the F12 couldn't match its A-B pace on the roads I drive on, it was a lot of fun - much better noise (v. important to me), memorable even when not pushing on, not so easy to drive as the 488. Interior felt more luxurious, even though it was of an older generation. And it could do a decent job as a GT, if I ever did need to go somewhere with the wife, which the 488 wasn't so great at. My F12 had racing buckets, which I loved, from a looks, comfort and holding you in position pov, so don't feel you need to go comfort on the seats for it to do the GT part.
In the end though, despite all the positives, not surprisingly, it just didn't feel as nimble as the mid engined cars on the A and B roads I drive on - it just felt too big for them, even though it probably is only a few cm bigger in any direction. And this was after I switched it onto Michelin PS4S tyres and off the OEM ones (this transformed how much I could trust the F12, so highly recommend you consider this). So, I changed for a 488 Spider - thinking that would get me back the agility and with the roof down - get me the noises I had missed going from 458 Spider to 488 GTB.
I lost a bunch of money in a short period of time, because of getting in and then out of the F12, but you only live once and I don't regret it for a second. I didn't want to finish my sports car driving not having driven a Ferrari V12.
One person's perspective. Hopefully helpful ?
Some context to my thoughts below. I live in the north of Scotland, so I have easy access to empty and good roads (the road where JC tested the F12 on Top Gear is about 40 minutes away). I don't track my cars, don't have to drive on motorways and don't commute in them - the cars are all weekend toys, but they do get used at the weekends.
Coming from the 488 GTB, although the F12 couldn't match its A-B pace on the roads I drive on, it was a lot of fun - much better noise (v. important to me), memorable even when not pushing on, not so easy to drive as the 488. Interior felt more luxurious, even though it was of an older generation. And it could do a decent job as a GT, if I ever did need to go somewhere with the wife, which the 488 wasn't so great at. My F12 had racing buckets, which I loved, from a looks, comfort and holding you in position pov, so don't feel you need to go comfort on the seats for it to do the GT part.
In the end though, despite all the positives, not surprisingly, it just didn't feel as nimble as the mid engined cars on the A and B roads I drive on - it just felt too big for them, even though it probably is only a few cm bigger in any direction. And this was after I switched it onto Michelin PS4S tyres and off the OEM ones (this transformed how much I could trust the F12, so highly recommend you consider this). So, I changed for a 488 Spider - thinking that would get me back the agility and with the roof down - get me the noises I had missed going from 458 Spider to 488 GTB.
I lost a bunch of money in a short period of time, because of getting in and then out of the F12, but you only live once and I don't regret it for a second. I didn't want to finish my sports car driving not having driven a Ferrari V12.
One person's perspective. Hopefully helpful ?
I’ve got some threads and posts from my time in the F12.
Posts above cover the 2 main “reliability” issues. Agreed on Rosso Corsa, but there are a variety of reds. Mine was Fiorano which looked bloody fantastic. Don’t get a silver/grey one, that what German and Astons are for.
I used mine as my daily, because it’s just a car and should be used as a car and I put 12,000 miles/yr on her. Not some precious Sunday best bone China your nan never took out. As such she did her time doing 400miles/week from Devon to central England and back when I went to the office each week. She did my local rural Devon roads, complete with handling pot holes and I live on a farm, so down a rutted farm track otherwise known as my driveway. Never needed lift for any of that and I’m fairly certain my farm use case is a bit more hardcore than most.
Meh, I could talk for hours on the F12, but long story short - it’s in the conversation for the best car of all time. Everything Ferrari have produced since is the F12 in a fat suit. Or it’s got the wrong engine (8 is always, always less than 12. At all times, in every way). I do though acknowledge the Scottish A-B use case of the gentleman above and understand the middie argument. My previous car to the F12 was a 4C and 2 bigger contrasts you will not find. In a GT I always miss the agility of a light small middie, especially in the more interesting wilds of Devon as opposed to the monotony of the M4 & M5.
Posts above cover the 2 main “reliability” issues. Agreed on Rosso Corsa, but there are a variety of reds. Mine was Fiorano which looked bloody fantastic. Don’t get a silver/grey one, that what German and Astons are for.
I used mine as my daily, because it’s just a car and should be used as a car and I put 12,000 miles/yr on her. Not some precious Sunday best bone China your nan never took out. As such she did her time doing 400miles/week from Devon to central England and back when I went to the office each week. She did my local rural Devon roads, complete with handling pot holes and I live on a farm, so down a rutted farm track otherwise known as my driveway. Never needed lift for any of that and I’m fairly certain my farm use case is a bit more hardcore than most.
Meh, I could talk for hours on the F12, but long story short - it’s in the conversation for the best car of all time. Everything Ferrari have produced since is the F12 in a fat suit. Or it’s got the wrong engine (8 is always, always less than 12. At all times, in every way). I do though acknowledge the Scottish A-B use case of the gentleman above and understand the middie argument. My previous car to the F12 was a 4C and 2 bigger contrasts you will not find. In a GT I always miss the agility of a light small middie, especially in the more interesting wilds of Devon as opposed to the monotony of the M4 & M5.
Thanks for the replies, I’m definitely going to need to go and drive one. I have always stayed with the V8 range because of their size and agility.
Sounds like the F12’s are relatively issue free, which is good.
It’s interesting to hear that red is a harder sell in an F12. All my previous Ferraris have been red. So maybe this will be the first in a different colour (but I still might buy a red one! Lol).
I really like the carbon race seats in the 488, so would definitely look for an F12 with them (there don’t seem to be as many cars with them).
The 488 was great, so if I don’t get on with the way the F12 drives, I will look at 488 spiders with lift.
Sounds like the F12’s are relatively issue free, which is good.
It’s interesting to hear that red is a harder sell in an F12. All my previous Ferraris have been red. So maybe this will be the first in a different colour (but I still might buy a red one! Lol).
I really like the carbon race seats in the 488, so would definitely look for an F12 with them (there don’t seem to be as many cars with them).
The 488 was great, so if I don’t get on with the way the F12 drives, I will look at 488 spiders with lift.
In the world of Ferraris, I went 328 > 355 > F12. I still have the F12 today. Mine is rosso Berlinetta which is the launch colour and was a ridiculously expensive option. It’s amazing - and is not what I had originally expected to end up with… The F12 design is very pure but is colour sensitive. Flat colours, or any kind of black, washes out the beautiful curves and creases and turns it into a Toyota. F12 is undoubtedly one Pininfarinas finest pieces of work - and the last Pininfarina designed Ferrari. The engine is a work of art - beautiful to look at, and sounds amazing at any speed. I would rate the engine note better than my old 355. It’s also got hydraulic steering and no gpf garbage, so more feel than an electric set up and better sound.
As a road car it’s fantastic. It is basically bipolar. Put it into wet mode, box in auto, bumpy road mode, and it’s totally docile and easy to cruise around in. Switch to race or above, wind the engine up, and it turns into a wild mentalist. You will never want or need more power. It’s difficult enough to deploy the 730hp it already has. In fact, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand, the times I’ve been able to fully floor the throttle and give it all the beans for any length of time. I get excited at the mere thought of driving the thing. Every outing is an occasion to me.
Re buying - I went main dealer as they throw in a 2 year Ferrari warranty. Costs more than non main dealer but I felt it was worth it to get the car and peace of mind I wanted. When I bought mine, it had Pirelli’s on it, but they kindly changed them to new Michelins MP4S all round as part of the deal. They also addressed every other ‘ask’ I had for them (eg some cosmetic stuff).
Re options - carbon race seats command a premium, you’ll want the led steering wheel, and then as much interior carbon as possible. Exterior carbon was available but relatively few cars have it and it’s very expensive to fix. I don’t have nose lift, and haven’t missed it.
Reliability wise - mine had the leaky 3rd brake light in the hatch, and that was fixed by my nearest Ferrari main dealer no questions asked. Other than that it’s been faultless. Some have shrinking leather on the dash if they have been in the sun over an extended period. And get the active brake cooling ducts checked. These can seize shut (as they aren’t really needed on the road), and the bill to fix is pricey (Jay Emm did a video on this issue and how to sort it).
If you truly have the Ferrari V12 itch, then the F12 is a great place to be.
As a road car it’s fantastic. It is basically bipolar. Put it into wet mode, box in auto, bumpy road mode, and it’s totally docile and easy to cruise around in. Switch to race or above, wind the engine up, and it turns into a wild mentalist. You will never want or need more power. It’s difficult enough to deploy the 730hp it already has. In fact, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand, the times I’ve been able to fully floor the throttle and give it all the beans for any length of time. I get excited at the mere thought of driving the thing. Every outing is an occasion to me.
Re buying - I went main dealer as they throw in a 2 year Ferrari warranty. Costs more than non main dealer but I felt it was worth it to get the car and peace of mind I wanted. When I bought mine, it had Pirelli’s on it, but they kindly changed them to new Michelins MP4S all round as part of the deal. They also addressed every other ‘ask’ I had for them (eg some cosmetic stuff).
Re options - carbon race seats command a premium, you’ll want the led steering wheel, and then as much interior carbon as possible. Exterior carbon was available but relatively few cars have it and it’s very expensive to fix. I don’t have nose lift, and haven’t missed it.
Reliability wise - mine had the leaky 3rd brake light in the hatch, and that was fixed by my nearest Ferrari main dealer no questions asked. Other than that it’s been faultless. Some have shrinking leather on the dash if they have been in the sun over an extended period. And get the active brake cooling ducts checked. These can seize shut (as they aren’t really needed on the road), and the bill to fix is pricey (Jay Emm did a video on this issue and how to sort it).
If you truly have the Ferrari V12 itch, then the F12 is a great place to be.
Chris355.. how is the search going? I was looking to buy for last 18 months, dream car but I was very spec driven, when I found it couldn’t get past the finance actually its the Grigio silverstone linked before. I can confirm it’s a minter, met the owner and his incredible car collection in Summer. He was selling it to buy a F12 TDF! All his cars were serviced/maintained on the dot and big believer in using them over garage queens. Generally Agree about the Red on F12 but some 3/4 layer ones look much better, but I would probably be put off about blending in, if painting needed later on 3/4 layer paints. A Meridian Modena Rosso F1 2007 Red car I saw had a blending in problem with the Fender Shields Panel. Carbon Fibre Seats were a non negotiable to me, very comfortable seat and command the higher price, think they are £18k retrofit.. all the known problem areas are covered by posts above, but as im not a current F12 owner can only go on what I heard on my search. Post when you have news, as I’m always looking and trying to find an acceptable finance deal..
I drove one a fortnight ago and it wasn’t for me. It is very fast, but it didn’t feel it. It wasn’t loud unless really being pushed (sounded great on start up and when being pushed hard). The front felt too long and made the car feel big. The seats (not carbon buckets) didn’t feel comfortable at all to me. If it had different seats it would make a great euro cruiser. In many ways it reminded me of some of the Astons I have owned. It’s a great car, but it is not what I want from a Ferrari.
I’ve always bought the v8 range and i have decided I will continue to do so. So I’m going to buy another 488 (but a spider with lift this time).
Shows the value of a test drive!
I’ve always bought the v8 range and i have decided I will continue to do so. So I’m going to buy another 488 (but a spider with lift this time).
Shows the value of a test drive!
Chris355 said:
I drove one a fortnight ago and it wasn’t for me. It is very fast, but it didn’t feel it. It wasn’t loud unless really being pushed (sounded great on start up and when being pushed hard). The front felt too long and made the car feel big. The seats (not carbon buckets) didn’t feel comfortable at all to me. If it had different seats it would make a great euro cruiser. In many ways it reminded me of some of the Astons I have owned. It’s a great car, but it is not what I want from a Ferrari.
I’ve always bought the v8 range and i have decided I will continue to do so. So I’m going to buy another 488 (but a spider with lift this time).
Shows the value of a test drive!
Agree V8 mid handle different to the V12’s Ferrari, Agree Carbon Fibre Seat difference, Agree you got to try before you buy. Disagree F12 is similar to Aston’s. Not even close, haven’t driven a DB12, but maybe that’s closer now to the Ferrari.I’ve always bought the v8 range and i have decided I will continue to do so. So I’m going to buy another 488 (but a spider with lift this time).
Shows the value of a test drive!
I tour my F12 with my wife. The F12 takes her full size case in the boot and my bag on the shelf plus all the stuff she buys on tour, has carbon seats which I find very comfy and cruises down through Holland and Germany in comfort whilst being good fun in the mountains.
But. We're touring.
When I go with mates I take my 458 Spider.
I'm quicker in the Spider even though its less powerful simply because its more connected and more manageable.
I wouldn't take the F12 on a lads trip where its all about the driving, passes etc and I wouldn't take the 458 touring with my wife as we would end up with the roof up all the time and driving steady (ish) and not enough room for luggage.
For me that's the difference between the mid engined and V12 cars.
PS. Regards the F12 noise, mine's valves are locked open. Sounds ace even at steady speeds.
But. We're touring.
When I go with mates I take my 458 Spider.
I'm quicker in the Spider even though its less powerful simply because its more connected and more manageable.
I wouldn't take the F12 on a lads trip where its all about the driving, passes etc and I wouldn't take the 458 touring with my wife as we would end up with the roof up all the time and driving steady (ish) and not enough room for luggage.
For me that's the difference between the mid engined and V12 cars.
PS. Regards the F12 noise, mine's valves are locked open. Sounds ace even at steady speeds.
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