Discussion
300bhp is not really needed on the road.
But 250bhp isn't quite enough on trackdays: the A110 is so much quicker than much higher power cars through the corners, so you catch them mid-corner but they boot it on the straights, so you can get stuck behind them for a while. S/GT/Map makes a massive difference in this respect.
But 250bhp isn't quite enough on trackdays: the A110 is so much quicker than much higher power cars through the corners, so you catch them mid-corner but they boot it on the straights, so you can get stuck behind them for a while. S/GT/Map makes a massive difference in this respect.
Jacobyte said:
300bhp is not really needed on the road.
But 250bhp isn't quite enough on trackdays: the A110 is so much quicker than much higher power cars through the corners, so you catch them mid-corner but they boot it on the straights, so you can get stuck behind them for a while. S/GT/Map makes a massive difference in this respect.
So have a word with the organizer if they're not cooperating. Track days are non competitive and if you're faster they should be getting blue flagged.But 250bhp isn't quite enough on trackdays: the A110 is so much quicker than much higher power cars through the corners, so you catch them mid-corner but they boot it on the straights, so you can get stuck behind them for a while. S/GT/Map makes a massive difference in this respect.
Never found my 250bhp feels short of power on track unless you're talking big straights at Silverstone.
worldwidewebs said:
The (tiny) difference is at the top end. You won't notice the difference on the road
It's 50bhp, in my experience (of other cars) that's very noticeable at the top end, probably the difference between feeling slightly asthmatic above 5k rpm versus pulling much more strongly to 6k+.Olivera said:
It's 50bhp, in my experience (of other cars) that's very noticeable at the top end, probably the difference between feeling slightly asthmatic above 5k rpm versus pulling much more strongly to 6k+.
I would completely agree that 50bhp in this car is a lot, and it does come at the top end. I guess the answer to OP’s question will be informed by how he defines ‘normal road driving’. jont- said:
So have a word with the organizer if they're not cooperating. Track days are non competitive and if you're faster they should be getting blue flagged.
Never found my 250bhp feels short of power on track unless you're talking big straights at Silverstone.
Goodwood is my closest circuit, where they don't use blue flags and it has similar speeds to Silverstone, so I suppose the power difference is more prominent there. As you say it's only a trackday, so no real need build up frustration, it's just a bit of fun Never found my 250bhp feels short of power on track unless you're talking big straights at Silverstone.
I should get myself to Cadwell next.
Stablinski said:
Olivera said:
It's 50bhp, in my experience (of other cars) that's very noticeable at the top end, probably the difference between feeling slightly asthmatic above 5k rpm versus pulling much more strongly to 6k+.
I would completely agree that 50bhp in this car is a lot, and it does come at the top end. I guess the answer to OP’s question will be informed by how he defines ‘normal road driving’. Simon Owen said:
It's not that different, and certainly not as different as the numbers suggest, but there is a difference. As an owner for several years (lower powered car) and if I was 'starting again' I'd probably go for the higher powered option just because you can and other than perhaps cost there are zero downsides to it, why not ? also now available in both trim options. If cost is a consideration though, and in reference to to the road comment don't under estimate the 250bhp car, it's not slow and like virtually all things these days you can very quickly and easily drive at very unsociable speeds. The top end comment above is correct and I'd say there is a bit more character if you regularly chase the red line in the 300bhp car. ?
Absolutely, agree with everything you’ve said. I personally feel there is more than enough shove mid-range, where the cars will be broadly similar, and will OP’s normal road driving entail chasing higher revs in the 300bhp version? I certainly don’t, even though I have the GT; as you say, why not?!The extra gain of 50 hp and 20 Nm above 5000 RPM is only noticeable if you shift solely manual in Sports or Track mode and rev it to the red line prior chosing the next gear. In Auto Sports Mode the box usualy shifts prior the extra power is delivered. In Normal mode there is absolutely no difference as all versions feel asthmatic prior the whole rev range.
There’s also the option of the Life110 map, which takes the base engine up to ~300 ps. I treated my 2020 Legende to this upgrade after a year or so. I definitely noticed a difference - not only did the engine pick up really well it also just felt creamy smooth. There’s a good chunk of extra torque from 2,500 rpm onwards.
On the other hand, it doesn’t change the very civilised nature of the car when pootling about in auto mode, where the box usually changes up around 2,000 rpm. These days I almost exclusively use Manual mode and I’m often not changing up until 3,000 or more and really enjoying the extra shove. Like everything, you get used to it, but I don’t generally find myself thinking I need more power…
On the other hand, it doesn’t change the very civilised nature of the car when pootling about in auto mode, where the box usually changes up around 2,000 rpm. These days I almost exclusively use Manual mode and I’m often not changing up until 3,000 or more and really enjoying the extra shove. Like everything, you get used to it, but I don’t generally find myself thinking I need more power…
cejsmith said:
I’m looking a A110 and I was wondering if I would on normal road driving notice the difference between a base model and a GT.
What are peoples experience, I know I could probably notice on a track , but as I’ve only done 1 in the last 20 years I dont see it as an issue!!!
Mine is 300 so I'm used to that. After about 6 months I then drove a 250 and for me it felt a bit flat. If you only know 250 though I guess it would feel fine.What are peoples experience, I know I could probably notice on a track , but as I’ve only done 1 in the last 20 years I dont see it as an issue!!!
TX.
Remember the difference between a 250 and 300bhp cars is just a map, hardware is indentical so don’t pay too much extra. For road use the regular suspension is the most compliant and faster on a B Road, and Bucket seats in the base and S are preferred over the comfort seats in the GT for most as long as you fit.
cejsmith said:
I’m looking a A110 and I was wondering if I would on normal road driving notice the difference between a base model and a GT.
What are peoples experience, I know I could probably notice on a track , but as I’ve only done 1 in the last 20 years I dont see it as an issue!!!
I've got to say I'm going to go against the grain a bit here and disagree with what a lot of others are saying.What are peoples experience, I know I could probably notice on a track , but as I’ve only done 1 in the last 20 years I dont see it as an issue!!!
It depends which variants you're comparing. The older S with 292 PS I agree with what others here are saying, there isn't much of a difference between the base model (252 PS) and that version because the torque feels the same until you get higher in the revs, where the base model tails off the S keeps pulling.
But the GT and the newer S with the 300 PS maps feel very different in my experience, despite the small differences on paper they have a more aggressive "shove" when you put your foot down which makes them feel incredibly quick and exciting. They also continue to pull harder in the high revs. It's a great balance.
Try to drive one back to back with a base model and you'll see. I found the difference quite obvious though. Personally I picked a GT as I felt it was the best overall package (for the road) and I had a slight preference for the comforts seats due to my height.
That being said, the base model is not slow by any stretch and you could consider it the better option from a tuning perspective as in theory it's only a remap away from the same performance. But I happen to really like the factory 300 PS map and the remapped cars I've experienced haven't done much for me.
Edited by Rob_RCF on Wednesday 28th August 10:46
I wonder how often the upper limits of the rev range can be used on the road. Get above 5k in any gear from 3rd on and you are well over the speed limit. For road use lower to mid-range torque is what is needed and the 250bhp version has plenty of that. As a PE owner I am of course biased.
Tim
Tim
timhum said:
I wonder how often the upper limits of the rev range can be used on the road. Get above 5k in any gear from 3rd on and you are well over the speed limit. For road use lower to mid-range torque is what is needed and the 250bhp version has plenty of that. As a PE owner I am of course biased.
Tim
At least the gearing is short so you can basically use all of 3rd. Unlike my RCF which did 75mph in 2nd, similar with a lot of Porches apparently.Tim
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