Tuning a ONE and S vs. JCW

[21TonyK]

Bit of a ramble but be interested to hear peoples experience or comments.

First, got a 2011 ONE. 90K and runs like a dream, very little oil use, no leaks and well maintained. Just about to get the gearbox oil changed to MT90 and then considering Celtic tunings stage 1 to just bring it up to Cooper performance as its just "lacking" and it gets bogged down pulling away unless you work the engine. Thats it for the first bit, the cars too good to mess about with.

1) Anyone used Celtic tuning to remap?

This leads to the second musing. Having said the first car is too good to mess about with I'm toying with the idea of another Mini, maybe around 75-85K with major engine mechanicals done but possibly ready for a complete suspension and brake upgrade. Not looking at a later car as I am thinking of possibly tracking it and want small and light around the 200bhp mark.

2) Question is whether to go for R53 or 56 and S or JCW? Dont want to pump 1000's and 1000's into it but happy to spend a few grand getting a solid car then upgrading as I go.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[E-bmw]

Having tracked an r53 and known others with r56s I would have 3 recommendations.

1. Don't use an r56.

2. Don't use an r56.

3. Don't use an r56.

[21TonyK]

E-bmw said:

Having tracked an r53 and known others with r56s I would have 3 recommendations.

1. Don't use an r56.

2. Don't use an r56.

3. Don't use an r56.

Sounds pretty conclusive. Why?

[E-bmw]

21TonyK said:

E-bmw said:

Having tracked an r53 and known others with r56s I would have 3 recommendations.

1. Don't use an r56.

2. Don't use an r56.

3. Don't use an r56.

Sounds pretty conclusive. Why?

The good engines are made of chocolate, the bad ones are made of plasticine.

A standard one that has been cossetted for it's full lifespan and serviced religiously will last well, but a well used one that has been mapped etc will be a money pit.

[Kevin-y9fs3]

I don't know how relevant this is to your question, but earlier this year I bought a 100k miles 2011 JCW on the false assumption it was the later n18 engine (wrong...the JCW kept the N14 for another year or so).

Valves, timing chain and turbo all replaced. Went like the clappers and was great fun to drive. It had a mountain of service history and a lot of it recent. It had been pampered to the point of sitting on practically new Michelin PS5s.

Within weeks id needed to replace the front shocks, drive axle/shaft and CV joint, various bits of suspension, spark plugs, thermostat housing, turbo vacuum pipes and coolant sensor. In doing so I realised most of the sensors, hoses, looks etc were held on with cable ties because brackets had snapped off their mountings due to age or fragility.

Then the clutch started going. A health check at a garage ended up with me being sent a 'courtesy video' from under the car where the mech went around pointing out various issues. It was longer than an installment of LOTR; water pump leaking, engine mount bolts threaded and spinning, rear shocks misting, oil leaks emerging, turbo seals blowing etc etc. Most of these issues were not present or obvious when I bought the car.

It was epic fun to drive and easily returned 40mpg, but it was built from egg boxes and blue tack. I tried some F56s as potential replacements but nice as they are, they just don't have the same sense of 'energy' about the way they steer and rev.

I miss the little b-gger as I loved every drive in it (this coming from someone who has owned 70+ cars) but it was a flakey little money pit!

[21TonyK]

Thanks Kevin, thats quite a sobering list.

Maybe that puts it in perspective. No-one is buying a JCW to shuttle the kids to school or pop to the shops at the weekend. Anything of any age is going to show signs of use and abuse and probably need a long list of work as you describe.

I think possibly an S thats seen an easier life would be a better option for me. Cheaper and more plentiful as well so if I can grab one for a few grand if it costs a couple more to sort it out its not going to upset me. Plus I get to do what I want to it and know its been done properly.

2009 S with history <3K vs. 2008 JCW with replacement engine 5K. Both will probably need 2-3K over time and the loss on a 2008 JCW with 8K sunk into it is much bigger than an S at 5-6K

[E-bmw]

Don't forget the S & the JCW both share an almost identical engine with an equally large amount of fragility issues if not treated correctly.

[and31]

Get a standard R53, fit a 15 or 17 percent pulley, induction kit, and perhaps an uprated intercooler, you’ll love it!
Engine and box are very reliable on the whole-I would not have an R56.
Mine R53 has a 15 percent pulley, GRS motorsport intercooler, Oranje induction kit, non res Milltek cat back and ST xta’ coilovers, been like this for the last seven years - fantastic car. Might possibly look at a cam and bigger injectors in the future, but it’s quick enough as it is really.Always great fun to drive

Edited by and31 on Friday 2nd August 19:04

Edited by and31 on Friday 2nd August 19:05

[Dr Interceptor]

I agree with everything that has been said above about the R56... I definitely wouldn't touch one now, they're old cars and will be well outlasted by R50's and R53's.

Years ago I had a source a cheap MINI automatic for a charity to take on the Italian Job charity run to Italy... I bought an R56 Cooper Auto. When I bought it the a/c wasn't working - thought it would probably be a fuse or something. It wasn't a fuse, then thought it might be the rheostat, nope not that either. Turns out it was the fan motor.

On a LHD R56 changing the fan motor it easy, it can be got at from within the footwell. In a RHD MINI, you basically have to remove the whole dashboard.

[Catchme]

I got an R53 eight years ago. Still going strong. Upgrades are relatively easy and you can probably add around 25-30bhp with a modest outlay.

The problems are well documented - they all leak from various sources, most of which you can probably DIY.

A future classic in the making....

[CarsOrBikes]

nothing really wrong with an r56 if it's had some stuff done

people saying they're ste most likely don't work on them, and often never owned one, at one point I found myself writing stuff about them but then had a word with myself over it because it's not usually what I do, it was just falling into the trap of reading nonsense from other people and I stopped myself doing it because I didn't know the truth, so I went out and bought some, and some of the tools to do a few bits, rebuilt the engines on those, and have done a stack of them since, now I do know the truth, of some stuff at least, sure they have a few vulnerabilities but they're ok really, the bottom line is they're just an evolution of the petrol engine, and that happens every so many years, the gen1 was just old school in comparison

you know what I learnt? That I still prefer the 53 haha, also that the N14 is the simplest engine of any gen Mini after the gen1, and this will never be repeated, the N12, N16, N18 are all very similar to each other but more complex, the internet would have folk believe the 18 is much better, however it isn't, it actually has (they all have) some common issues either for oil usage or cooling system stuff, or timing chains, and the thing is, most of the parts causing the issues are the same across the board, and people writing junk about them have no actual idea, it's almost amusing

the engine isn't chocolate, you just need to not inherit one full of carbon and pitted valves, knackered chain or smoking its bits off, or having had the cheapest version of repairs done by patch it up owners and local bodge it bash it and scarper garages really

many 53 engines are rough now, blocks are rotten, bearings tired, motors abused with so many having pulleys stuffed on and the cars thrashed with no map to suit mods and plenty of stories about bottom ends failing, cooling systems bursting, oil use, even thrown rods, so the reality is that with either version anyone can run into a costly repair scenario, a difference being more will attempt the old school motor repairs as DIY

I've 53's here and 58's and others, a couple of 53's are quite quick, well one has been detuned a bit now to sell at a lower price but it still moves, and a couple of the 58's which are N14 FJCW's, one of those is just on a stage one map and is not a particularly slow car at all really, great road car, the other at least until last week was on a stage three, and was noticeably quicker, a 53 would struggle to keep up with one, and no doubt wouldn't catch the other

the gen1 is more engaging, the gen2 is still a good prospect and can go well, they just aren't as forgiving with poor maintenance

these are two examples I'm selling fwiw, the gen1 has just had a donor motor refreshed and is now on a different cam and still has the pulley and injectors with cat back, just not the special gearbox, ported head, manifold, alloy flywheel, scoop and wing, it does still have bigger brakes and coilovers but they'll go soon, people won't spend the money so it'll all go separately, head was sold to an R50 owner, the box is now in a RallyX car in N.I.



this one has had chains, head stripped and totally decoked, rings, stem seals, oil pump, clutch, front shocks and front wheel bearings, thermostat housing, cross over pipe, big end shells, ARP rod bolts, ARP head studs, Celtic Tuning stage1 as said, wheels powder coated and PS4's, it flies along for what it is, 208hp out of the box and being a JCW Celtic claim they get to ~246 on this map, nothing else is done to it, making it rather discreet



Coupe's aren't for everyone but they drive great and the boots are huge with no seats to mess with

[21TonyK]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm leaning towards a 2013 LCI S with the N18 engine at the moment based on spec and looks. Not going to do anything for a month or two as the existing ONE needs an MOT.

R53 or even R50 might be an option but I am a bit (unnecessarily?) concerned about age/subframe etc etc

I dont have a garage any more and it needs to live outside and be worked on outdoors so big jobs are not likely to be DIY

[SilverPhantom]

CarsOrBikes said:

nothing really wrong with an r56 if it's had some stuff done

people saying they're ste most likely don't work on them, and often never owned one, at one point I found myself writing stuff about them but then had a word with myself over it because it's not usually what I do, it was just falling into the trap of reading nonsense from other people and I stopped myself doing it because I didn't know the truth, so I went out and bought some, and some of the tools to do a few bits, rebuilt the engines on those, and have done a stack of them since, now I do know the truth, of some stuff at least, sure they have a few vulnerabilities but they're ok really, the bottom line is they're just an evolution of the petrol engine, and that happens every so many years, the gen1 was just old school in comparison

you know what I learnt? That I still prefer the 53 haha, also that the N14 is the simplest engine of any gen Mini after the gen1, and this will never be repeated, the N12, N16, N18 are all very similar to each other but more complex, the internet would have folk believe the 18 is much better, however it isn't, it actually has (they all have) some common issues either for oil usage or cooling system stuff, or timing chains, and the thing is, most of the parts causing the issues are the same across the board, and people writing junk about them have no actual idea, it's almost amusing

the engine isn't chocolate, you just need to not inherit one full of carbon and pitted valves, knackered chain or smoking its bits off, or having had the cheapest version of repairs done by patch it up owners and local bodge it bash it and scarper garages really

many 53 engines are rough now, blocks are rotten, bearings tired, motors abused with so many having pulleys stuffed on and the cars thrashed with no map to suit mods and plenty of stories about bottom ends failing, cooling systems bursting, oil use, even thrown rods, so the reality is that with either version anyone can run into a costly repair scenario, a difference being more will attempt the old school motor repairs as DIY

I've 53's here and 58's and others, a couple of 53's are quite quick, well one has been detuned a bit now to sell at a lower price but it still moves, and a couple of the 58's which are N14 FJCW's, one of those is just on a stage one map and is not a particularly slow car at all really, great road car, the other at least until last week was on a stage three, and was noticeably quicker, a 53 would struggle to keep up with one, and no doubt wouldn't catch the other

the gen1 is more engaging, the gen2 is still a good prospect and can go well, they just aren't as forgiving with poor maintenance

these are two examples I'm selling fwiw, the gen1 has just had a donor motor refreshed and is now on a different cam and still has the pulley and injectors with cat back, just not the special gearbox, ported head, manifold, alloy flywheel, scoop and wing, it does still have bigger brakes and coilovers but they'll go soon, people won't spend the money so it'll all go separately, head was sold to an R50 owner, the box is now in a RallyX car in N.I.



this one has had chains, head stripped and totally decoked, rings, stem seals, oil pump, clutch, front shocks and front wheel bearings, thermostat housing, cross over pipe, big end shells, ARP rod bolts, ARP head studs, Celtic Tuning stage1 as said, wheels powder coated and PS4's, it flies along for what it is, 208hp out of the box and being a JCW Celtic claim they get to ~246 on this map, nothing else is done to it, making it rather discreet



Coupe's aren't for everyone but they drive great and the boots are huge with no seats to mess with

Well said.
Your Correct, there is Absolutely nothing wrong with the R56, The diesels have a bad reputation if you believe the forums, you only ever hear the horror stories.
We run a few as courtesy cars these two 2012 1.6 Cooper D's where purchased at three years old and have been serviced religiously, they are still on their original engines and timing chains.
One fast approaching 200,000 miles the other has only done 170,000 miles the other two we have are around the 130,000 mile mark.
Don't use crap oil, crap diesel or crap parts and actually be bothered to service them more often than is recommended.
Don't buy one that has been neglected.

Edited by SilverPhantom on Sunday 15th September 14:20

[and31]

SilverPhantom said:

Well said.
Your Correct, there is Absolutely nothing wrong with the R56, The diesels have a bad reputation if you believe the forums, you only ever hear the horror stories.
We run a few as courtesy cars these two 2012 1.6 Cooper D's where purchased at three years old and have been serviced religiously, they are still on their original engines and timing chains.
One fast approaching 200,000 miles the other has only done 170,000 miles the other two we have are around the 130,000 mile mark.
Don't use crap oil, crap diesel or crap parts and actually be bothered to service them more often than is recommended.
Don't buy one that has been neglected.

Edited by SilverPhantom on Sunday 15th September 14:20

What is “crap diesel?”

[SilverPhantom]

and31 said:

What is “crap diesel?”

Biodiesel.

[Mr Peel]

N18 engine (184hp, not remapped) is reliable in my experience of an R60 Cooper S (2WD). Uses a bit of oil, but so many engines do. Much other stuff, notably clutch and high-pressure fuel pump, is less resilient however.