V12 Vantage Starting Issue?

[Linkin]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced the following problem.... and what the fix was.

My V12 Vantage lives in temperature controlled, dehumidified luxury, and most of the time sits on it's trickle charger.

Just a few times, when starting, the engine has started to crank and stopped abruptly, with some whirring and clicking noises.
Key removed and re-pressed and the engine has fired quickly without issue.

Yesterday, the car started fine at home and i enjoyed a drive to work where it sat outside my office.
I went to start the car and this time just clicking and whirring and no cranking of the engine at all. Checked the battery and the voltmeter suggested 12.6v. The nice man from the AA arrives and tries to jump start from a battery pack - no change.
Then he jumped it from the AA van - Evidently that throws out 14v+ ? and the car started fine.

After a decent run, it's starting fine again.
I don't want to get stranded again, so does anyone have any idea what's going on?

Thanks in advance.
Linkin

[LTP]

Linkin said:

Hi All,

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced the following problem.... and what the fix was.

My V12 Vantage lives in temperature controlled, dehumidified luxury, and most of the time sits on it's trickle charger.

Just a few times, when starting, the engine has started to crank and stopped abruptly, with some whirring and clicking noises.
Key removed and re-pressed and the engine has fired quickly without issue.

Yesterday, the car started fine at home and i enjoyed a drive to work where it sat outside my office.
I went to start the car and this time just clicking and whirring and no cranking of the engine at all. Checked the battery and the voltmeter suggested 12.6v. The nice man from the AA arrives and tries to jump start from a battery pack - no change.
Then he jumped it from the AA van - Evidently that throws out 14v+ ? and the car started fine.

After a decent run, it's starting fine again.
I don't want to get stranded again, so does anyone have any idea what's going on?

Thanks in advance.
Linkin

How old is the car? And has the battery been changed recently?

Because I'd bet your battery is on the way out.

[Calinours]

Sounds like insufficient CCA (cranking amps) to turn that huge V12.

After first checking the tightness and cleanliness of the battery terminal connections and also the battery earth strap connection to the cars chassis, then it's most likely to be a degraded battery. If you can't confirm with a peak CCA test, it's worth just fitting a decent new battery.

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 23 July 22:16

[Linkin]

Thanks for the replies.

The car is almost 10 years old and the current (ha ha) battery 5 years.
All earth straps, connections checked and all ok.
I've had a new battery fitted by the same independent dealer i bought the car from, and i pick it back up on Friday - Roll on.

Fingers crossed

Ta
Linkin

[Calinours]

Best of luck, and don't forget to post when the issue is resolved.

[Linkin]

Thanks Calinours - Will do.
I can't wait to get it back.... It's epic!

[hornbaek]

I have a couple of cars kept in storage all connected to CTEK chargers. But that is not always a guaranty that they will start even if the CTEK shows all is all right. So in order to avoid getting stranded when taking out a car that hasn’t been driven for some time, I disconnect the CTEK the prior day and then I know whether the battery will hold charge. Also, batteries despite being kept on a CTEK charger only seldomly last over 3-4 years, so I simply change them as a matter of maintenance rather than waiting for them to stop working.

[LTP]

Linkin said:

Thanks for the replies.

The car is almost 10 years old and the current (ha ha) battery 5 years.
All earth straps, connections checked and all ok.
I've had a new battery fitted by the same independent dealer i bought the car from, and i pick it back up on Friday - Roll on.

Fingers crossed

Ta
Linkin

When you say all the earth straps, do you include the braided one between the body and the powertrain that's underneath, in the transmission tunnel?

[snuffy]

LTP said:

When you say all the earth straps, do you include the braided one between the body and the powertrain that's underneath, in the transmission tunnel?

Connect a jump lead from the battery's negative to the chassis or the block.

Now, I've no idea where the battery on your car is, but I had a none staring problem on a car (Clio) many years ago. I found the earth strap and it fine. So I connected a jump lead from the battery's negative terminal to the block and it started straight away.

[cayman-black]

hornbaek said:

I have a couple of cars kept in storage all connected to CTEK chargers. But that is not always a guaranty that they will start even if the CTEK shows all is all right. So in order to avoid getting stranded when taking out a car that hasn’t been driven for some time, I disconnect the CTEK the prior day and then I know whether the battery will hold charge. Also, batteries despite being kept on a CTEK charger only seldomly last over 3-4 years, so I simply change them as a matter of maintenance rather than waiting for them to stop working.

Yes sometimes a car kept on constant trickle will hide a battery that is dying. The new Battery will sort this out.

[Hoofy]

hornbaek said:

I have a couple of cars kept in storage all connected to CTEK chargers. But that is not always a guaranty that they will start even if the CTEK shows all is all right. So in order to avoid getting stranded when taking out a car that hasn’t been driven for some time, I disconnect the CTEK the prior day and then I know whether the battery will hold charge. Also, batteries despite being kept on a CTEK charger only seldomly last over 3-4 years, so I simply change them as a matter of maintenance rather than waiting for them to stop working.

I thought the CTEK or similar meant it would keep a battery healthy?

I guess it really means it will keep a battery healthy for more than 2 weeks?

[EvoOlli]

No, a CTEK will keep a battery charged, not always healthy. It can discover some battery faults, but not all.

[LTP]

Hoofy said:

I thought the CTEK or similar meant it would keep a battery healthy?

I guess it really means it will keep a battery healthy for more than 2 weeks?

It will keep it healthier. Like all things, it can't turn back the tides of time, but it will prevent and can improve sulphation - more than letting the battery slowly discharge over time if the car isn't driven regularly and for long enough to fully charge the battery.

I bought my 2015 V8V at 3 years old with the original battery and since then it's been kept on an Ampmatic when it wasn't being driven or away from my garage. Last year I decided to replace the battery as a precaution, knowing how much Astons hate low battery voltages. Since then comparing the Ampmatic "battery health" lights on the new battery have shown just how much the original had deteriorated.

[Linkin]

Doh!
New battery fitted but the problem persists...

I guess a starter motor replacement is now on the cards - Can anyone let me know what the correct starter motor is please?
2014 V12 Vantage S Roadster

Thanks,
Linkin

[LTP]

Linkin said:

Doh!
New battery fitted but the problem persists...

I guess a starter motor replacement is now on the cards - Can anyone let me know what the correct starter motor is please?
2014 V12 Vantage S Roadster

Thanks,
Linkin

Up to you, and I'm no auto electrician but I dabble. I'd have thought a little more investigation to confirm it's the starter motor might be an idea before you buy what is probably an expensive item, but feel free to ignore the following if you wish and go straight for the starter.
You say the new battery didn't fix the issue (which is a bit of a surprise, but there we are). To me, the symptoms you describe don't shout that the starter is faulty, as I wouldn't expect a faulty starter to engage and crank the engine, then suddenly stop with sounds that, from your description, smack of a low cranking voltage

1. Did the starting issue occur immediately, or after the battery had been fitted for a while and the car driven?
2. Does the starting issue happen if the new battery is fully-charged and when it has been on the conditioner for a while?

• The reason I ask is in case the car isn't charging the battery - obviously a day or so on a conditioner should eliminate this possibility

1. Was the battery earth strap where it attaches to the body (not the battery terminal) cleaned and retightened when the new battery was fitted?

• It's possible you might have a poor battery earth

1. Do you have a set of decent, heavy-duty jump leads? If yes, have them handy and the next time the starting issue happens put a lead between a decent earth on the engine block and a decent earth on one of the underbonnet body castings and try again

• This would fix the issue if there is a bad earth between the engine and the body, as the main earth strap connection can corrode

You can categorise replacement of the battery as a preventative maintenance measure rather than a waste of money

Body casting clarified

Edited by LTP on Thursday 1st August 14:35

[Linkin]

Hi LTP,

No, haven't abandoned this thread, just gathering as much information as possible before taking a punt on the 'fix'.

Battery - Yes, preventative maintenance for sure, it was 5 years old anyway.

My Independent really isn't warming to the idea of a starter-motor, but thinks the issue may lie with a faulty 'key' slot/receptacle, whereby the electronic 'handshake' may not be happening correctly.....

[hornbaek]

Diagnosing the starter motor is pretty simple. You push the START engine button and you will hear the starter motor churn. If it churns it works and you will have to look at other issues such as the distributor (does it deliver sparks) and petrol pump which you can normally hear as a whizzing sound prior to starting. With a new battery and no churn it is an electronic connectivity issue. Have you checked the immobiliser.

[Minglar]

Linkin said:

Hi LTP,

No, haven't abandoned this thread, just gathering as much information as possible before taking a punt on the 'fix'.

Battery - Yes, preventative maintenance for sure, it was 5 years old anyway.

My Independent really isn't warming to the idea of a starter-motor, but thinks the issue may lie with a faulty 'key' slot/receptacle, whereby the electronic 'handshake' may not be happening correctly.....

Could it be the switch on the clutch pedal? When you depress the clutch the engine start glass surround should illuminate red. If this doesn’t happen the car won’t turn over at all. Just another possible avenue worth exploring perhaps. Hopefully it’s nothing too difficult or expensive to resolve. BRM.

[Linkin]

Hi Minglar,

Sportshift.
The starter motor does engage and the engine does start to turn, but only a tiny amount before it stops.

The problem is very intermittent, and normally resolved by removing the 'key' and trying again. It's been fine for the last few days and has only left me stranded once.

[paulrog1]

hornbaek said:

Diagnosing the starter motor is pretty simple. You push the START engine button and you will hear the starter motor churn. If it churns it works and you will have to look at other issues such as the distributor (does it deliver sparks) and petrol pump which you can normally hear as a whizzing sound prior to starting. With a new battery and no churn it is an electronic connectivity issue. Have you checked the immobiliser.

Sorry, that's not true, the Aston V12 does not have a "distributor" it has two PCM modules, primary and secondary which sends signals to 12 coils packs then to the spark plugs.

For the car to start the battery needs to be in tip top condition, anything other than that the cars PCM's will not even allow the motor to start.

Most issues points to the battery, a weak battery also pings up other faults that are just not there, what's happening is low power to some control modules, these will send error messages down the canbus system causing spurious faults.