M2 Brand New Loss of All Power
Discussion
I collected a brand new Toronto Red M2 on Saturday with 13 miles on the clock. I just want to proceed this by saying I like to car and it is everything it wanted it to be apart from this issue, and the dealer I bought it from have been fantastic during the purchase process and I have no doubt we'll get a resolution to this. I won't name them at this stage as I think it would be unfair as the issue is not their fault.
At 189 miles I was doing 50mph in an average camera zone with cruise on, in the middle lane of the M1, no hard shoulder due to roadworks (to build safety areas, can you believe it). An error message came up on the that dash that said 'Speed Stabilisation' and this is the new limp mode warning the tech said on Sunday. His words not mine.
Car loses all power, goes into limp mode from 50mph to 0 in the blink of an eye, I have nowhere to go as cars to the left and right but even then there is no hard shoulder just concrete barriers to protect the non-existent workers. So, I put the hazards on and it comes to a stop, right in the middle lane of the M1, two cars behind me and one goes to the left and one to the right and I am waiting to be hit, as it slows I contemplate do I make a run for the central reservation that is closer or to safer ground up the banking.
Just as it slows down at about 5mph and then stops and I am waiting to be hit, I switch it off and on, hey presto the thing starts with no error message, into first and I accelerate fairly briskly lets say.
If this had been 70mph, in busy traffic then I am in a very bad accident and so are other people, and I could quite easily be dead. My daughter should have been with me, and I cannot even think what would have happened if she had been and I had not been quick thinking enough to reboot the computer in it. (thank you South Park internet episode).
I ring BMW and the tech dials in remotely, cannot find anything. BMW tech comes out to the car next day, after completing another 50 miles or so home with no incident. He can find nothing and his response was that it was a 'glitch' and it 'shouldn't' happen again.
My wife said 'it is a very dangerous glitch' and has refused point blank to ever let my daughter or herself get in the car. A friend said it could happen anytime, any place in future again as there were no warning it was going to happen, no codes and BMW do not know what caused it. This was the worst outcome as I have no idea what it was or if it could happen again.
The one thing is I had never heard of 'Speed Stabilisation' and another dealer rang me the day after about a car of theirs I had been looking at and this is what they said when i mentioned i had collected a new car and had a terrifying experience in the way home. I quote 'that happens quite often....We had one car that did it this week.....it's not good enough when spending so much money....we have had an internal meeting in the group to discuss this issue.' i do not know if this is M cars and BMWs in general.
I do not want to send this car back at all, I got the perfect spec, right colour, good deal and the dealership I bought it from were sensational to say the least and highly recommended to anyone in the country. I will do a separate post on the buying experience as there is a vast difference in quality of service at BMW dealerships, the one I bought from was probably the best I have ever had at BMW.
I left my fantastic 440i at the BMW dealer to be collected by a 'Motorway' dealer and I now have to cancel that sale. I will see what the BMW dealership suggests as to sort this out, but I will have to refuse this car on safety grounds under the 14 day distance buying rules but if it had been 15 days the lack of safety in this car meant it should still go back as it is downright dangerous. It just cannot be trusted it will never happen again and frankly BMW should be taking this car back and dissecting it to see what happened. I would not want anyone else to have this car and go through the same or worse.
This was a terrifying moment, as the car is cutting power and I look at a lorry on the left and a car on the right and think 's
t'. It should also have gone into limp mode, rather than lose all power according to the tech.
This is just a post to let others know what happened. I can keep the car (impossible) let the dealer find me another, or let them put a factory order in although I want Toronto Red which cannot be ordered anymore or look to Porsche. It was dangerous, terrifying, ruined the new car purchase and is inconvenient as well as costing me money for the loss of sale on my 440i and the insurance etc. The last thing I want is to send it back but I don't think there is an alternative.
At 189 miles I was doing 50mph in an average camera zone with cruise on, in the middle lane of the M1, no hard shoulder due to roadworks (to build safety areas, can you believe it). An error message came up on the that dash that said 'Speed Stabilisation' and this is the new limp mode warning the tech said on Sunday. His words not mine.
Car loses all power, goes into limp mode from 50mph to 0 in the blink of an eye, I have nowhere to go as cars to the left and right but even then there is no hard shoulder just concrete barriers to protect the non-existent workers. So, I put the hazards on and it comes to a stop, right in the middle lane of the M1, two cars behind me and one goes to the left and one to the right and I am waiting to be hit, as it slows I contemplate do I make a run for the central reservation that is closer or to safer ground up the banking.
Just as it slows down at about 5mph and then stops and I am waiting to be hit, I switch it off and on, hey presto the thing starts with no error message, into first and I accelerate fairly briskly lets say.
If this had been 70mph, in busy traffic then I am in a very bad accident and so are other people, and I could quite easily be dead. My daughter should have been with me, and I cannot even think what would have happened if she had been and I had not been quick thinking enough to reboot the computer in it. (thank you South Park internet episode).
I ring BMW and the tech dials in remotely, cannot find anything. BMW tech comes out to the car next day, after completing another 50 miles or so home with no incident. He can find nothing and his response was that it was a 'glitch' and it 'shouldn't' happen again.
My wife said 'it is a very dangerous glitch' and has refused point blank to ever let my daughter or herself get in the car. A friend said it could happen anytime, any place in future again as there were no warning it was going to happen, no codes and BMW do not know what caused it. This was the worst outcome as I have no idea what it was or if it could happen again.
The one thing is I had never heard of 'Speed Stabilisation' and another dealer rang me the day after about a car of theirs I had been looking at and this is what they said when i mentioned i had collected a new car and had a terrifying experience in the way home. I quote 'that happens quite often....We had one car that did it this week.....it's not good enough when spending so much money....we have had an internal meeting in the group to discuss this issue.' i do not know if this is M cars and BMWs in general.
I do not want to send this car back at all, I got the perfect spec, right colour, good deal and the dealership I bought it from were sensational to say the least and highly recommended to anyone in the country. I will do a separate post on the buying experience as there is a vast difference in quality of service at BMW dealerships, the one I bought from was probably the best I have ever had at BMW.
I left my fantastic 440i at the BMW dealer to be collected by a 'Motorway' dealer and I now have to cancel that sale. I will see what the BMW dealership suggests as to sort this out, but I will have to refuse this car on safety grounds under the 14 day distance buying rules but if it had been 15 days the lack of safety in this car meant it should still go back as it is downright dangerous. It just cannot be trusted it will never happen again and frankly BMW should be taking this car back and dissecting it to see what happened. I would not want anyone else to have this car and go through the same or worse.
This was a terrifying moment, as the car is cutting power and I look at a lorry on the left and a car on the right and think 's
t'. It should also have gone into limp mode, rather than lose all power according to the tech. This is just a post to let others know what happened. I can keep the car (impossible) let the dealer find me another, or let them put a factory order in although I want Toronto Red which cannot be ordered anymore or look to Porsche. It was dangerous, terrifying, ruined the new car purchase and is inconvenient as well as costing me money for the loss of sale on my 440i and the insurance etc. The last thing I want is to send it back but I don't think there is an alternative.
Edited by Robbyman on Monday 15th July 10:55
"Speed Calibration" or "Speed Stablisation"? Neither are really limp mode, and if the car won't proceed at all it's not really limp mode, it's stop mode.
You mention you were in cruise, is this Autonomous Cruise Control? i.e the car can cruise to the applicable speed limit, and brake when required? It sounds like the ACC system reset itself (hence the displayed image) or set the speed to 0mph and brought the car to a stop.
You mention you were in cruise, is this Autonomous Cruise Control? i.e the car can cruise to the applicable speed limit, and brake when required? It sounds like the ACC system reset itself (hence the displayed image) or set the speed to 0mph and brought the car to a stop.
Yea sorry, it was Speed 'stabilisation' and not 'Calibration'. It happened so quick I forgot the terminology it used. The tech was very shifty on its causes, ducked a lot of questions on causes but he had seen it before.
The car is a manual, so normal cruise control and yes it was a very definite ‘STOP’ mode, the Tech said it was the new ‘limp’ mode.
The car is a manual, so normal cruise control and yes it was a very definite ‘STOP’ mode, the Tech said it was the new ‘limp’ mode.
Edited by Robbyman on Monday 15th July 11:02
Edited by Robbyman on Monday 15th July 11:37
I posted some of this on the other thread about M2s:
In my experiance, my first area to investigate would be the wheel sensors. Most modern car systems rely on them providing an accurate picture and if they can't, limp happens, and systems shut down. They could be poorly seated.
I note the comments of stabilisation vs calibration, but the old speed/ABS senors issues were called Drive Stabilisation so it makes sense to still be connected.
It could also be a design inherant earthing issue, maybe even M2 specific, given the apparently unknown cause. I would be very surprised if it is software related.
In your circumstances I would reject this particular one - because you have the option to, so you may as well take it. I would also request that BMW keep you mobile until they can provide you a replacement vehicle. Good luck.
In my experiance, my first area to investigate would be the wheel sensors. Most modern car systems rely on them providing an accurate picture and if they can't, limp happens, and systems shut down. They could be poorly seated.
I note the comments of stabilisation vs calibration, but the old speed/ABS senors issues were called Drive Stabilisation so it makes sense to still be connected.
It could also be a design inherant earthing issue, maybe even M2 specific, given the apparently unknown cause. I would be very surprised if it is software related.
In your circumstances I would reject this particular one - because you have the option to, so you may as well take it. I would also request that BMW keep you mobile until they can provide you a replacement vehicle. Good luck.
Thanks all for the comments and I have ran the car three times since this happened and it has been fine. Such as shame as I like the car so much.
To be frank, I have been less than impressed by the response that I have had from those involved, particularly with the issue of giving the car back, despite me being legally able to do so. I got the feeling BMW were playing silly devils from the communication I have had. No apology from BMW but the distinct feeling they wanted to ignore the 14 day rule or push me beyond it.
Dealer said BMW have to be sure there is an issue as they cannot just have everyone cancel. I felt as though BMW and not the dealer were in fact calling me a liar, so I could get out of the deal, when I had already asked them to replace the car with the exact same model. The dealer also said BMW must be not aware the car has been looked at already by their tech team, but the correspondence sent to BMW via the dealer from me clearly stated it had been looked at twice already.
BMW wanted to send the car to my local shamblesstone of a dealer in Leeds, I got the distinct impression the dealer was wanting BMW to give the ok to accept a return back and BMW wanted to look at it and do one of two things. 1 say it’s fine and try to give it me back or 2. Pretend they found the issue and give it me back saying it is now sorted. From the rhetoric used I could tell clearly what was happening so I refused and said I want to cancel the purchase and look for a replacement.
The dealer clearly said they were waiting on BMW to provide a response to what they wanted to do, and ignored completely my legal rights and request to return the car. I requested a return several times by email and it was ignored, a polite way of refusing I would say it was.
My request to return it was met by ‘we are waiting on BMW’ and it’s too early to look at replacements. All the time I do not have car to drive and a dealer is booked in to collect my 440i, as it is sold so time was very much in essence.
I have had to seriously push to get this accepted back which finally happened while I was on the phone to BMW customer services cancelling the finance agreement myself.
However more strange is the pricing from the dealer on a replacement car has been mind boggling. I was given assurances that the deal would be the same for a replacement car and I took that to be the price paid.
Given it left me stranded on the middle lane of the M1, for the same car but with buckets (that I don’t want) I was quoted over £8,000 more to swap to that car. Yes, same car but with buckets, track pack etc which is essentially buckets.
More surprising was that a dealer in their own group has that car for sale, the one they were now offering me is in fact for sale at £4,000 less than the original dealer just offered it to me at.
A new build of the same car but with individual paint, an option that costs £3500 more than Toronto Red, was quoted to me for £6500 more than the price of my original purchase. It’s just mad given the danger I have been put in. that my family could have been put in, the cost of plate transfers, fuel, insurance, a near heart attack and much stress that they are in fact just treating it like a new purchase.
Needless to say they are not looking after me at all. I have rejected this car, I have still not have had that confirmed, it got to the stage of going to BMW finance myself before they agreed to it, but nothing in writing.
All in all, this is now a st show from by both the BMW and the dealer.
Put me in a death trap, struggle to get it taken back, and then want to charge my £8,000 more for the closest replacement available.
I am not impressed at all. I won’t be naming the dealer, but I really should. I have asked for my deposit back, my 440i returned to me and I’ll look elsewhere. Absolute shambles they have both been today. I am still hoping this dealer comes good and the prices are an initial quote but I don’t think that will happen.
To be frank, I have been less than impressed by the response that I have had from those involved, particularly with the issue of giving the car back, despite me being legally able to do so. I got the feeling BMW were playing silly devils from the communication I have had. No apology from BMW but the distinct feeling they wanted to ignore the 14 day rule or push me beyond it.
Dealer said BMW have to be sure there is an issue as they cannot just have everyone cancel. I felt as though BMW and not the dealer were in fact calling me a liar, so I could get out of the deal, when I had already asked them to replace the car with the exact same model. The dealer also said BMW must be not aware the car has been looked at already by their tech team, but the correspondence sent to BMW via the dealer from me clearly stated it had been looked at twice already.
BMW wanted to send the car to my local shamblesstone of a dealer in Leeds, I got the distinct impression the dealer was wanting BMW to give the ok to accept a return back and BMW wanted to look at it and do one of two things. 1 say it’s fine and try to give it me back or 2. Pretend they found the issue and give it me back saying it is now sorted. From the rhetoric used I could tell clearly what was happening so I refused and said I want to cancel the purchase and look for a replacement.
The dealer clearly said they were waiting on BMW to provide a response to what they wanted to do, and ignored completely my legal rights and request to return the car. I requested a return several times by email and it was ignored, a polite way of refusing I would say it was.
My request to return it was met by ‘we are waiting on BMW’ and it’s too early to look at replacements. All the time I do not have car to drive and a dealer is booked in to collect my 440i, as it is sold so time was very much in essence.
I have had to seriously push to get this accepted back which finally happened while I was on the phone to BMW customer services cancelling the finance agreement myself.
However more strange is the pricing from the dealer on a replacement car has been mind boggling. I was given assurances that the deal would be the same for a replacement car and I took that to be the price paid.
Given it left me stranded on the middle lane of the M1, for the same car but with buckets (that I don’t want) I was quoted over £8,000 more to swap to that car. Yes, same car but with buckets, track pack etc which is essentially buckets.
More surprising was that a dealer in their own group has that car for sale, the one they were now offering me is in fact for sale at £4,000 less than the original dealer just offered it to me at.
A new build of the same car but with individual paint, an option that costs £3500 more than Toronto Red, was quoted to me for £6500 more than the price of my original purchase. It’s just mad given the danger I have been put in. that my family could have been put in, the cost of plate transfers, fuel, insurance, a near heart attack and much stress that they are in fact just treating it like a new purchase.
Needless to say they are not looking after me at all. I have rejected this car, I have still not have had that confirmed, it got to the stage of going to BMW finance myself before they agreed to it, but nothing in writing.
All in all, this is now a s
t show from by both the BMW and the dealer. Put me in a death trap, struggle to get it taken back, and then want to charge my £8,000 more for the closest replacement available.
I am not impressed at all. I won’t be naming the dealer, but I really should. I have asked for my deposit back, my 440i returned to me and I’ll look elsewhere. Absolute shambles they have both been today. I am still hoping this dealer comes good and the prices are an initial quote but I don’t think that will happen.
Edited by Robbyman on Tuesday 16th July 00:00
Edited by Robbyman on Tuesday 16th July 00:01
It's not BMW taking the car back, it's the dealer. You bought the car off the dealer, not BMW.
You reject the car, end of. It is your legal right to do so. They may postulate and play for time but essentially that's a moot point.
They are trying to ease this out until you are in a more accepting frame of mind. Then as you say it'll be no fault found or fault found and resolved (most likely the latter)
They are quoting you crazy money for another deal as that's part of compelling you to take the car back.
Is the car on finance? If so, involve the finance company. They have a vested interest in this.
You reject the car, end of. It is your legal right to do so. They may postulate and play for time but essentially that's a moot point.
They are trying to ease this out until you are in a more accepting frame of mind. Then as you say it'll be no fault found or fault found and resolved (most likely the latter)
They are quoting you crazy money for another deal as that's part of compelling you to take the car back.
Is the car on finance? If so, involve the finance company. They have a vested interest in this.
E-bmw said:
Mafioso said:
E-bmw said:
sunnyb13 said:
440i is a wonderful car. Keep it.
Nobody is saying it isn't, just not that one!
I am really intrigued by this thread. I'm borrowing a manual M2 overnight on Thursday which I'm looking forward to...
I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t react quite as extreme as everyone else, I’ve had 5 new BMW’s and my company runs them as company cars with at least 60 in my area and absolutely none of them have had this issue. I’d probably run the car a lot over the next week or so and put a decent amount of miles on it and see if it happens again. If it does then I’d be rejecting the car, if not I’d stick it in M1 and drive the life out of it like you intended to and enjoy every minute.
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