The 11th team on the Grid?
Discussion
It’s a great pity that F1 /Liberty will let a fictional team parade around the world’s circuits with real life teams on Grand Prix weekends using the F1 trademark when they won’t approve a team with the reputation and name of Andretti.
Team owners, managers, drivers and engineers are all featured in scenes with Brad Pitt and other actors which make a mockery of F1/Liberty’s professionalism or lack of it.
Yes, this has happened before with the movie Winning but in those days it was possible for anyone with an appropriate car to turn up to qualify and race but not now. It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
Team owners, managers, drivers and engineers are all featured in scenes with Brad Pitt and other actors which make a mockery of F1/Liberty’s professionalism or lack of it.
Yes, this has happened before with the movie Winning but in those days it was possible for anyone with an appropriate car to turn up to qualify and race but not now. It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
Tazar said:
I It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
The one consistent thing that new team entries get wrong is the time to be competitive, no matter how deep the pockets and facilities. Even more so if you aren't UK based where most of the current F1 talent is.Toyota, Jaguar, Haas, etc.
thegreenhell said:
It would have been more realistic if they'd made the film crew build their own cars and actually race them. Then they could have sold the lot to Andretti at the end of filming.
Not at all sure you'd want Hollywood accounting anywhere near F1, it's been fun getting rid of the bad influences as it is.vaud said:
Tazar said:
I It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
The one consistent thing that new team entries get wrong is the time to be competitive, no matter how deep the pockets and facilities. Even more so if you aren't UK based where most of the current F1 talent is.Toyota, Jaguar, Haas, etc.
thegreenhell said:
If they keep using that as an excuse for denying an entry then there can never be a new team, simply because they will be new and uncompetitive by definition. The only way to get them competitive is to get them competing and improving, but they have to have the door opened first.
I'm not saying it's excuse for the FIA. I'm just observing that it could be a flop and history tends to repeat itself... If they want to get in they could buy a team...
There is no "excuse" for not allowing a new team in, infact there should be 2 teams as the rules allow.
The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
SmoothCriminal said:
There is no "excuse" for not allowing a new team in, infact there should be 2 teams as the rules allow.
The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
Williams who finished 9th and 11th - and qualified within 0.8sec of P1 last weekend?The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
There’s another long-running Andretti thread here, which covers much of the same ground.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The OP’s angle of the juxtaposition of letting a fake team on the grid running two old F2 cars dressed up to look a little like the F1 show cars, is a good one though.
Did we all spot them at the back of the dummy grid on Sunday, carefully edited out of the highlights reels and ignored by the commentators?
Andretti are pushing for a Congressional investigation in the States against F1/Liberty.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The OP’s angle of the juxtaposition of letting a fake team on the grid running two old F2 cars dressed up to look a little like the F1 show cars, is a good one though.
Did we all spot them at the back of the dummy grid on Sunday, carefully edited out of the highlights reels and ignored by the commentators?
Andretti are pushing for a Congressional investigation in the States against F1/Liberty.
vaud said:
SmoothCriminal said:
There is no "excuse" for not allowing a new team in, infact there should be 2 teams as the rules allow.
The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
Williams who finished 9th and 11th - and qualified within 0.8sec of P1 last weekend?The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
Tazar said:
It’s a great pity that F1 /Liberty will let a fictional team parade around the world’s circuits with real life teams on Grand Prix weekends using the F1 trademark when they won’t approve a team with the reputation and name of Andretti.
Team owners, managers, drivers and engineers are all featured in scenes with Brad Pitt and other actors which make a mockery of F1/Liberty’s professionalism or lack of it.
Yes, this has happened before with the movie Winning but in those days it was possible for anyone with an appropriate car to turn up to qualify and race but not now. It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
Not entirely sure I understand your analogy.Team owners, managers, drivers and engineers are all featured in scenes with Brad Pitt and other actors which make a mockery of F1/Liberty’s professionalism or lack of it.
Yes, this has happened before with the movie Winning but in those days it was possible for anyone with an appropriate car to turn up to qualify and race but not now. It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
You can't really conflate the presence of a film crew on the grid and in the pits with the FIA's unwillingness to permit an 11th team. That would be like criticising the Home Office for allowing the filming of a Police Drama in a real Police Station yet not employing more Police Officers. You might be right to question the employment issue but it has zero to do with with the filming.
I don't see how the film is making a mockery of the sports professionalism, either. It may do when it's released, if it's a pile of poo. But then again, it may be awesome.
Personally I find it fascinating how they can leverage in a live film set alongside a working environment as dynamic as F1. If anything, I think it underlines of the level of professionalism that prevails.
StevieBee said:
Tazar said:
It’s a great pity that F1 /Liberty will let a fictional team parade around the world’s circuits with real life teams on Grand Prix weekends using the F1 trademark when they won’t approve a team with the reputation and name of Andretti.
Team owners, managers, drivers and engineers are all featured in scenes with Brad Pitt and other actors which make a mockery of F1/Liberty’s professionalism or lack of it.
Yes, this has happened before with the movie Winning but in those days it was possible for anyone with an appropriate car to turn up to qualify and race but not now. It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
Not entirely sure I understand your analogy.Team owners, managers, drivers and engineers are all featured in scenes with Brad Pitt and other actors which make a mockery of F1/Liberty’s professionalism or lack of it.
Yes, this has happened before with the movie Winning but in those days it was possible for anyone with an appropriate car to turn up to qualify and race but not now. It’s hardly the case that Andretti would be an embarrassment.
You can't really conflate the presence of a film crew on the grid and in the pits with the FIA's unwillingness to permit an 11th team. That would be like criticising the Home Office for allowing the filming of a Police Drama in a real Police Station yet not employing more Police Officers. You might be right to question the employment issue but it has zero to do with with the filming.
I don't see how the film is making a mockery of the sports professionalism, either. It may do when it's released, if it's a pile of poo. But then again, it may be awesome.
Personally I find it fascinating how they can leverage in a live film set alongside a working environment as dynamic as F1. If anything, I think it underlines of the level of professionalism that prevails.
vaud said:
Jimjimhim said:
Everyone will moan about this new film whatever they do so no point in moaning at all.
Everyone on PH will, but it's not aimed at us 
Also as with DTS, I’m sure my wife will drag me to watch it, probably out to the cinema to see Brad Pitt on the big screen.
Edited by Sandpit Steve on Tuesday 9th July 18:58
Sandpit Steve said:
As with Drive To Survive, it’s not aimed at those of us who spend too much time on a motorsport forum.
Also as with DTS, I’m sure my wife will drag me to watch it, probably out to the cinema to see Brad Pitt on the big screen.
I'll watch it but try to suspend my knowledge of reality and watch as some escapism. Also as with DTS, I’m sure my wife will drag me to watch it, probably out to the cinema to see Brad Pitt on the big screen.
SmoothCriminal said:
There is no "excuse" for not allowing a new team in, infact there should be 2 teams as the rules allow.
The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
You're right that the rules allow for it, but they also don't disallow sticking to just 10 teams..The fact is the teams don't want to dilute their prize fund money and are acting like a cartel.
All the noise about the new teams being uncompetitive etc etc so what? It's okay for sauber and Williams to be miles off the pace but bad for the sport because it's a new team?
It's very clear that the existing teams will fight tooth and nail to prevent a watering down of the F1 pie, in commercial terms I don't blame them frankly. I'm honestly not sure what prevents Liberty and the FIA from pushing through the Andretti deal - I can only assume they feel there is some serious value in maintaining the status quo and keeping the existing teams happy? Who knows what the real internal power politics are in the sport...
It has nothing to do with a new team being uncompetitive, that's totally irrelevant. The new team will still make commercial sense to the new teams owners even if performance is dire, that's a key reason they want to get in! And in time they can improve performance.
Not sure why the OP compares letting a film crew in that will pay for the privilege, to an 11th real team that would simply take more money out of the machine, away from the other teams. The two don't equate at all.
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