B2b changing terms of warranty after sale
Discussion
I buy 150-200k of hikvision cameras every year from trade wholesalers, at the time i bought all the kit in the last few years the warranty was 2 or 3 years depending on product with advanced replacement at the trade counter. Hand over a faulty item at the trade counter within the warranty period, they will give it a bench test and either replace it there and then or issue a credit note.
The manufacturer has told wholesalers to stop doing this from april and everything has to be sent back to them, and they take between 30 and 60 days to look at it before coming to a decision, leaving my customers without vital security equipment and invalid insurance cover unless i pay for the replacement out my own pocket.
How can they legally retrospectively make this change on product i have already bought, surely they have to honour the contract as it was at the date of sale?
I have been aggressively bullying the wholesalers and playing them off against each other, telling them that the other wholesalers are honouring the old warranty and i will just take my business there, and witholding payments for other stuff for the time being to get them to do the right thing, but I would rather not have to play those games, it takes valuable time and increases stress levels.
How best do I go about getting what i have paid for?
I have tried dahua and unifi, and uniview and a few others, but the image quality on the cameras just cant compete with hikvision.
The manufacturer has told wholesalers to stop doing this from april and everything has to be sent back to them, and they take between 30 and 60 days to look at it before coming to a decision, leaving my customers without vital security equipment and invalid insurance cover unless i pay for the replacement out my own pocket.
How can they legally retrospectively make this change on product i have already bought, surely they have to honour the contract as it was at the date of sale?
I have been aggressively bullying the wholesalers and playing them off against each other, telling them that the other wholesalers are honouring the old warranty and i will just take my business there, and witholding payments for other stuff for the time being to get them to do the right thing, but I would rather not have to play those games, it takes valuable time and increases stress levels.
How best do I go about getting what i have paid for?
I have tried dahua and unifi, and uniview and a few others, but the image quality on the cameras just cant compete with hikvision.
As above, what do the warranty terms say? They’re still honouring the warranty, but just making it take longer by forcing RTB.
We occasionally supply video conferencing equipment, and I’ve refused to supply Yealink since they started doing similar - it’s just not worth it for our reputation.
Axis cameras are way better than Hikvision - but damn they’re expensive!
We occasionally supply video conferencing equipment, and I’ve refused to supply Yealink since they started doing similar - it’s just not worth it for our reputation.
Axis cameras are way better than Hikvision - but damn they’re expensive!
Indecision said:
As above, what do the warranty terms say? They’re still honouring the warranty, but just making it take longer by forcing RTB.
We occasionally supply video conferencing equipment, and I’ve refused to supply Yealink since they started doing similar - it’s just not worth it for our reputation.
Axis cameras are way better than Hikvision - but damn they’re expensive!
So they haven't changed the actual terms? Ie they are still honouring what the terms say.We occasionally supply video conferencing equipment, and I’ve refused to supply Yealink since they started doing similar - it’s just not worth it for our reputation.
Axis cameras are way better than Hikvision - but damn they’re expensive!
Tje terms state advanced replacement in year 1, rtb year 2 and 3.
They are trying to force rtb in year 1 failures now though and turnaround for year 2 and 3 failures has increasd from 2 weeks to 4 to 8 weeks.
Axis lightfinder nightvision is not a patch on hiks colorvu, we have fitted lightfinder while working for clients who cant use hik or dahua.
They are trying to force rtb in year 1 failures now though and turnaround for year 2 and 3 failures has increasd from 2 weeks to 4 to 8 weeks.
Axis lightfinder nightvision is not a patch on hiks colorvu, we have fitted lightfinder while working for clients who cant use hik or dahua.
OldGermanHeaps said:
I am actively looking at other brands.
Doesnt help with the fleet of kit i have out there i have installed in the last 3 years that i am responsible to the end customer for warranty though.
That is why I suggested the swap-out stock so you can keep your customers happy while Hikvision take their sweet time on the warranty.Doesnt help with the fleet of kit i have out there i have installed in the last 3 years that i am responsible to the end customer for warranty though.
FMOB said:
That is why I suggested the swap-out stock so you can keep your customers happy while Hikvision take their sweet time on the warranty.
There are thousands of skus, for me to keep a spare of each would cost me tens of thosands, when its their f
kup.Just no.
If it comes down to it i will keep holding their current invoices to ransom until they sort their s
t out.OldGermanHeaps said:
FMOB said:
That is why I suggested the swap-out stock so you can keep your customers happy while Hikvision take their sweet time on the warranty.
There are thousands of skus, for me to keep a spare of each would cost me tens of thosands, when its their fkup.Just no.
If it comes down to it i will keep holding their current invoices to ransom until they sort their s
t out.As for with holding invoice payments, that just hurts your supplier and not Hikvision.
My contract of sale is with the suppliers, not hikvision. They allowed hikvision to do this st, they have the option to do the same to hik directly.
I have to stand by the product i sell, so my suppliers have to do the same.
Putting the onus on me to spend money to compensate for supplier fkery isnt very helpful, and it isnt going to happen without a dirty fight with zero tactics off limits.
t, they have the option to do the same to hik directly.I have to stand by the product i sell, so my suppliers have to do the same.
Putting the onus on me to spend money to compensate for supplier f
kery isnt very helpful, and it isnt going to happen without a dirty fight with zero tactics off limits.OldGermanHeaps said:
There are thousands of skus, for me to keep a spare of each would cost me tens of thosands, when its their fkup.
Just no.
If it comes down to it i will keep holding their current invoices to ransom until they sort their st out.
So you don't like someone changing T&Cs but you're ok with unlawfully offsetting unrelated invoices? That's sounds rather hypocritical.kup.Just no.
If it comes down to it i will keep holding their current invoices to ransom until they sort their s
t out.OldGermanHeaps said:
My contract of sale is with the suppliers, not hikvision. They allowed hikvision to do this st, they have the option to do the same to hik directly.
I have to stand by the product i sell, so my suppliers have to do the same.
Putting the onus on me to spend money to compensate for supplier fkery isnt very helpful, and it isnt going to happen without a dirty fight with zero tactics off limits.
Nobody is forcing you to hold stock are they?t, they have the option to do the same to hik directly.I have to stand by the product i sell, so my suppliers have to do the same.
Putting the onus on me to spend money to compensate for supplier f
kery isnt very helpful, and it isnt going to happen without a dirty fight with zero tactics off limits.Faulty unit, take it back, buy a replacement and receive credit when it’s proved faulty.
Easy.
Has there been a written change of terms from your supplier? It are they just not adheering to them?
Either way start by writing to your supplier telling them they are in breach. Then escalate from there.
The problem with escalating by not paying is it gets you stopped very quickly which is no help as you might as well find another door with a different brand.
Also what structure is your agreement? Does it have a duration of purchase? Say a year? Or is each other placed under a new agreement? If the latter then you are pretty stuffed anyway.
Either way start by writing to your supplier telling them they are in breach. Then escalate from there.
The problem with escalating by not paying is it gets you stopped very quickly which is no help as you might as well find another door with a different brand.
Also what structure is your agreement? Does it have a duration of purchase? Say a year? Or is each other placed under a new agreement? If the latter then you are pretty stuffed anyway.
OldGermanHeaps said:
My contract of sale is with the suppliers, not hikvision. They allowed hikvision to do this st, they have the option to do the same to hik directly.
I have to stand by the product i sell, so my suppliers have to do the same.
Putting the onus on me to spend money to compensate for supplier fkery isnt very helpful, and it isnt going to happen without a dirty fight with zero tactics off limits.
I doubt very much your suppliers have allowed Hikvision to do this, this will come down the pipe from Hikvision themselves, your supplier is caught in the middle of this st, they have the option to do the same to hik directly.I have to stand by the product i sell, so my suppliers have to do the same.
Putting the onus on me to spend money to compensate for supplier f
kery isnt very helpful, and it isnt going to happen without a dirty fight with zero tactics off limits.t show.Maybe pick up your toys and have a conversation with your supplier about any help they can offer such providing an advance replacement. If you are a valued customer they may do something to help but threatening not to pay invoices puts you squarely in the 'not worth the effort' camp.
Being pragmatic, it’s unlikely you’re going to get Hikvision to change their position on this, and it’s not worth your while to try to enforce the contract on existing gear. Contract Law disputes in the courts are VERY expensive - don’t even think about it. And it’s likely to hurt your businesss more if you get stopped by the wholesalers for non payment of invoices.
Also, if year 1 was advanced replacement and year 2 or 3 was RTB already then it’ll only take a year to flush out all the gear you’ve sold in that time to go onto an RTB warranty anyway.
Pragmatically if you want to offer your customers a continuous service in a years time then you’ll have to carry your own replacement stock anyway. You don’t need to carry thousands of skus as they’re all probably compatible with each other, so a customer might get a temporary replacement which is different (or better) than the one they had before, but I doubt most would mind. I’m no expert but if you had decent one of each type - coax and Ethernet, and a plain version and a PTZ one might cover it?
Domestic customer insurance probably won’t be invalidated; I have larger properties that cost x20 the average to insure with complex policies yet they still don’t care about CCTV working or even whether I have it or not. Businesses may need continuous coverage to be insured but in that case it’s a premium product and service for which they’ll pay.
TL;DR it’s annoying but rather than stress over the principle my advice would be to work out how you’re going to support new customers from now, when the RTB warranty kicks in legally (I presume they’ve changed the warranty terms on new sales since April?), and just support your customers with year old gear the same way. Or find a new supplier, but it sounds like you think Hik are the best on price/performance, so you might just have to find a way to live with them. It’s one of the issues of working with Chinese suppliers - their attitudes to customer rights aren’t always aligned with domestic companies.
Also, if year 1 was advanced replacement and year 2 or 3 was RTB already then it’ll only take a year to flush out all the gear you’ve sold in that time to go onto an RTB warranty anyway.
Pragmatically if you want to offer your customers a continuous service in a years time then you’ll have to carry your own replacement stock anyway. You don’t need to carry thousands of skus as they’re all probably compatible with each other, so a customer might get a temporary replacement which is different (or better) than the one they had before, but I doubt most would mind. I’m no expert but if you had decent one of each type - coax and Ethernet, and a plain version and a PTZ one might cover it?
Domestic customer insurance probably won’t be invalidated; I have larger properties that cost x20 the average to insure with complex policies yet they still don’t care about CCTV working or even whether I have it or not. Businesses may need continuous coverage to be insured but in that case it’s a premium product and service for which they’ll pay.
TL;DR it’s annoying but rather than stress over the principle my advice would be to work out how you’re going to support new customers from now, when the RTB warranty kicks in legally (I presume they’ve changed the warranty terms on new sales since April?), and just support your customers with year old gear the same way. Or find a new supplier, but it sounds like you think Hik are the best on price/performance, so you might just have to find a way to live with them. It’s one of the issues of working with Chinese suppliers - their attitudes to customer rights aren’t always aligned with domestic companies.
The question can’t be answered because without knowing the exact wording and whose terms you’re trading on, for example what you consider new terms could in fact have been there all along. Also what is considered standard practice in the industry and whether the terms are reasonable.
Your supplier cannot arbitrarily alter terms just because their supplier has without reasonable notice.
It seems as if you need goods and a reliable supply route, based on this it’s more of a negotiation than a contract matter and if your supplier is intransigent then that’s a problem beyond warranty.
I assume they want your significant account so try to resolve by reasoned persuasion
Your supplier cannot arbitrarily alter terms just because their supplier has without reasonable notice.
It seems as if you need goods and a reliable supply route, based on this it’s more of a negotiation than a contract matter and if your supplier is intransigent then that’s a problem beyond warranty.
I assume they want your significant account so try to resolve by reasoned persuasion
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