Martial Art / Self Defence? What to choose?
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.
Thanks all....
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.
Thanks all....
I took up Japanese Jiu-Jitsu recently, and have been doing it for 3 years. Really enjoy it and it ticks the boxes for what you're looking for.
It's not for profit, so cheap to get into, and all very friendly. ETA - there are people in their 50s who also joined my club recently.
https://www.jitsufoundation.org/about/japanese-mar...
It's not for profit, so cheap to get into, and all very friendly. ETA - there are people in their 50s who also joined my club recently.
https://www.jitsufoundation.org/about/japanese-mar...
JJ or BJJ is probably your best bet in a brawl/pub fight compared to other traditional martial arts. Krav Maga, Defence Labs and similar are better still as they should teach you situational awareness - self-defence is when the s
t hits the fan, self-protection is watching things build up then dissolving the situation (by running away if possible) before you need to defend yourself but also teaches you how to "bring it" should you not be able to escape. Also, trad MA doesn't really teach you how to deal with a knife or club attack. At least having an awareness might increase your chances of survival.
That all said, Tai Chi is the best. When someone gets lairy, you warn them you know a few moves, then drop a 20 minute ultra slow long form. That should diffuse the situation but it may cost you a round of drinks or two. Last laugh's on you, Xu Xiaodong!
t hits the fan, self-protection is watching things build up then dissolving the situation (by running away if possible) before you need to defend yourself but also teaches you how to "bring it" should you not be able to escape. Also, trad MA doesn't really teach you how to deal with a knife or club attack. At least having an awareness might increase your chances of survival.That all said, Tai Chi is the best. When someone gets lairy, you warn them you know a few moves, then drop a 20 minute ultra slow long form. That should diffuse the situation but it may cost you a round of drinks or two. Last laugh's on you, Xu Xiaodong!
I am a Dan grade and have taught for a bit over the decades that I have studied. My own kids started their training age 5.
Of all the disciplines that we cross trained with other from other dojos on a guest basis over those years, the most useful for every day defence would be Ju Jitsu. (In my opinion).
I base this from the experience of typically being picked as the demonstration dummy being the biggest guy in the room, which allows me to attest on how useful it is.
(Let’s just say that you won’t be able to shake hands with anyone without wincing the next day).
Of all the disciplines that we cross trained with other from other dojos on a guest basis over those years, the most useful for every day defence would be Ju Jitsu. (In my opinion).
I base this from the experience of typically being picked as the demonstration dummy being the biggest guy in the room, which allows me to attest on how useful it is.
(Let’s just say that you won’t be able to shake hands with anyone without wincing the next day).
Hoofy said:
JJ or BJJ is probably your best bet in a brawl/pub fight compared to other traditional martial arts. Krav Maga, Defence Labs and similar are better still as they should teach you situational awareness - self-defence is when the st hits the fan, self-protection is watching things build up then dissolving the situation (by running away if possible) before you need to defend yourself but also teaches you how to "bring it" should you not be able to escape. Also, trad MA doesn't really teach you how to deal with a knife or club attack. At least having an awareness might increase your chances of survival.
Concur. For actual self-defence situational awareness is key, not memorising set routines constricted by 'rules'. Krav Maga the best option should your SA or disengagement strategy fail.t hits the fan, self-protection is watching things build up then dissolving the situation (by running away if possible) before you need to defend yourself but also teaches you how to "bring it" should you not be able to escape. Also, trad MA doesn't really teach you how to deal with a knife or club attack. At least having an awareness might increase your chances of survival.For fitness anything will do.
My recommendation of Judo or another art that doesn't have striking cones from the fact that defending yourself is all very well, but many times your right to do so ends at the other fellas face, to paraphrase a famous judge...most 'fights' end up with two inept protagonists rolling around innefectually on the ground and having the ability to, in most cases, quickly and efficiently take the decision to put the other person on the ground and control them gives you an immediate upper hand.
I did 6/7 years of KM, twice a week plus various related courses.
This included weekends where things were set up to provoke an adrenaline response plus where you could strike full power at ‘bullet men’.
Things I learnt from all of this training:
If someone wants my wallet/phone/watch/car - they can take it.
If someone is getting a bit aggro in a pub or wherever, I’d leave.
Don’t get out of your car to argue with anyone; road rage.
Forget your male ego. Better to leave any be called names than get hit.
Have a stock of answers or responses to certain likely questions ‘did you spill my pint’ kind of stuff.
Verbal de-escalation is always the best response.
Don’t apologise, don’t tell people to calm down, don’t escalate (unless as a necessary tactic)
Understand what happens to you when adrenaline starts to kick in. You might be the best martial artist in the dojo but what happens to you in confrontation: happy feet, voice goes up an octave or two, scared to actually hit, mind goes blank, too ready to strike first? I’ve seen very well qualified martial artists go to pieces under stress.
Overall it taught me I never, ever want to get in a fight!
This included weekends where things were set up to provoke an adrenaline response plus where you could strike full power at ‘bullet men’.
Things I learnt from all of this training:
If someone wants my wallet/phone/watch/car - they can take it.
If someone is getting a bit aggro in a pub or wherever, I’d leave.
Don’t get out of your car to argue with anyone; road rage.
Forget your male ego. Better to leave any be called names than get hit.
Have a stock of answers or responses to certain likely questions ‘did you spill my pint’ kind of stuff.
Verbal de-escalation is always the best response.
Don’t apologise, don’t tell people to calm down, don’t escalate (unless as a necessary tactic)
Understand what happens to you when adrenaline starts to kick in. You might be the best martial artist in the dojo but what happens to you in confrontation: happy feet, voice goes up an octave or two, scared to actually hit, mind goes blank, too ready to strike first? I’ve seen very well qualified martial artists go to pieces under stress.
Overall it taught me I never, ever want to get in a fight!
jdw100 said:
I did 6/7 years of KM, twice a week plus various related courses.
This included weekends where things were set up to provoke an adrenaline response plus where you could strike full power at ‘bullet men’.
Things I learnt from all of this training:
If someone wants my wallet/phone/watch/car - they can take it.
If someone is getting a bit aggro in a pub or wherever, I’d leave.
Don’t get out of your car to argue with anyone; road rage.
Forget your male ego. Better to leave any be called names than get hit.
Have a stock of answers or responses to certain likely questions ‘did you spill my pint’ kind of stuff.
Verbal de-escalation is always the best response.
Don’t apologise, don’t tell people to calm down, don’t escalate (unless as a necessary tactic)
Understand what happens to you when adrenaline starts to kick in. You might be the best martial artist in the dojo but what happens to you in confrontation: happy feet, voice goes up an octave or two, scared to actually hit, mind goes blank, too ready to strike first? I’ve seen very well qualified martial artists go to pieces under stress.
Overall it taught me I never, ever want to get in a fight!
Would you be able to suggest examples of the bolded parts?This included weekends where things were set up to provoke an adrenaline response plus where you could strike full power at ‘bullet men’.
Things I learnt from all of this training:
If someone wants my wallet/phone/watch/car - they can take it.
If someone is getting a bit aggro in a pub or wherever, I’d leave.
Don’t get out of your car to argue with anyone; road rage.
Forget your male ego. Better to leave any be called names than get hit.
Have a stock of answers or responses to certain likely questions ‘did you spill my pint’ kind of stuff.
Verbal de-escalation is always the best response.
Don’t apologise, don’t tell people to calm down, don’t escalate (unless as a necessary tactic)
Understand what happens to you when adrenaline starts to kick in. You might be the best martial artist in the dojo but what happens to you in confrontation: happy feet, voice goes up an octave or two, scared to actually hit, mind goes blank, too ready to strike first? I’ve seen very well qualified martial artists go to pieces under stress.
Overall it taught me I never, ever want to get in a fight!
jdw100 said:
I did 6/7 years of KM, twice a week plus various related courses.
This included weekends where things were set up to provoke an adrenaline response plus where you could strike full power at ‘bullet men’.
Things I learnt from all of this training:
If someone wants my wallet/phone/watch/car - they can take it.
If someone is getting a bit aggro in a pub or wherever, I’d leave.
Don’t get out of your car to argue with anyone; road rage.
Forget your male ego. Better to leave any be called names than get hit.
Have a stock of answers or responses to certain likely questions ‘did you spill my pint’ kind of stuff.
Verbal de-escalation is always the best response.
Don’t apologise, don’t tell people to calm down, don’t escalate (unless as a necessary tactic)
Understand what happens to you when adrenaline starts to kick in. You might be the best martial artist in the dojo but what happens to you in confrontation: happy feet, voice goes up an octave or two, scared to actually hit, mind goes blank, too ready to strike first? I’ve seen very well qualified martial artists go to pieces under stress.
Overall it taught me I never, ever want to get in a fight!
....and there is the best answer yet. I spent years teaching conflict management and physical intervention skills and my first advice was always de-escalate, walk away, run away. I am a very emotional person with a quick temper and, thankfully, learnt years ago that the best way for me was to avoid triggers altogether and minimise them if that was impossible. I always operated on the principles that it's always easier to stop a fire starting than it is to subsequently put it out.....This included weekends where things were set up to provoke an adrenaline response plus where you could strike full power at ‘bullet men’.
Things I learnt from all of this training:
If someone wants my wallet/phone/watch/car - they can take it.
If someone is getting a bit aggro in a pub or wherever, I’d leave.
Don’t get out of your car to argue with anyone; road rage.
Forget your male ego. Better to leave any be called names than get hit.
Have a stock of answers or responses to certain likely questions ‘did you spill my pint’ kind of stuff.
Verbal de-escalation is always the best response.
Don’t apologise, don’t tell people to calm down, don’t escalate (unless as a necessary tactic)
Understand what happens to you when adrenaline starts to kick in. You might be the best martial artist in the dojo but what happens to you in confrontation: happy feet, voice goes up an octave or two, scared to actually hit, mind goes blank, too ready to strike first? I’ve seen very well qualified martial artists go to pieces under stress.
Overall it taught me I never, ever want to get in a fight!
I have a number of issues with Krav Maga or to be fair the few courses I experienced. I worked as a doorman for nearly 5 years in the early 90’s and have seen and been subjected to some horrible violence and gave a good bit back.
This is just my experience but anyone advocating grappling as a primary art for self defence does not under street confrontations, fights go to the ground but getting up is critical, I know of an incident where a random unconnected girl walked by and kicked the bloke on top in the eye, he lost his eye.
I’m mid 50’s and have trained on and off the nearly 40 years yet if I spar with my son who’s 17, he will beat me to the punch every time, it’s a matter of fact reactions drop massively with age but to remind him of danger I’ll close up and get in close where speed is not the king but precision is.
I worked with a guy who gouged someone’s eye out in a fight, Krav Maga will tell people to do that but 99% of normal people won’t so what’s the point in training it.
Situational awareness is key, at 7.30am today I was about to go into a Tesco with my wife and I heard shouting, I turned the trolley around and went back to the car but watched from a distance, it 3 people shop lifting getting out a a few staff sort of tussling, I waited until they left or in Lowndes Crescent where houses are £20m but I spied three guys having a heated conversation, they were near the pay machine, I said to the person with me why had the small guy not taken his left hand out of his pocket but was very animated, my friend told me I was paranoid, moments later the big aggressive guy was screaming as the little guy did a piston move with the knife.
We are not paid to be involved so unless it’s directly at you and an exit is not possible then avoid.
The law on self defence is more clear than the media portray but I know from both the door and an incident where I was not involved but one of a group ran at me and I hit them, the Police don’t take things at face value and rightly so. All the people mentioning Judo should consider the reasonableness of slamming someone onto a concrete floor and what a jury would make if it, same a chokeholds. Fights are horrible fast moving and unpredictable and best avoided as the other person may be better.
Context is important and not putting one’s self in a difficult situation is a good base.
For courses if you want to seriously understand street violence any of the protégés of Peter Consterdine or Geoff Thompson would be good.
Self defence and sport combat are different and ones not better but being able to batter someone is only one component of self defence, some others are legal, moral and financial.
None of this considers weapon's
I say this as it’s too easy get moderately proficient at something and then lose sight of the fact that the whole point is not fight. There was a study about new black belts in America and when they drilled down they found at a subconscious level they actually sort conflict to almost test themselves.
This is just my experience but anyone advocating grappling as a primary art for self defence does not under street confrontations, fights go to the ground but getting up is critical, I know of an incident where a random unconnected girl walked by and kicked the bloke on top in the eye, he lost his eye.
I’m mid 50’s and have trained on and off the nearly 40 years yet if I spar with my son who’s 17, he will beat me to the punch every time, it’s a matter of fact reactions drop massively with age but to remind him of danger I’ll close up and get in close where speed is not the king but precision is.
I worked with a guy who gouged someone’s eye out in a fight, Krav Maga will tell people to do that but 99% of normal people won’t so what’s the point in training it.
Situational awareness is key, at 7.30am today I was about to go into a Tesco with my wife and I heard shouting, I turned the trolley around and went back to the car but watched from a distance, it 3 people shop lifting getting out a a few staff sort of tussling, I waited until they left or in Lowndes Crescent where houses are £20m but I spied three guys having a heated conversation, they were near the pay machine, I said to the person with me why had the small guy not taken his left hand out of his pocket but was very animated, my friend told me I was paranoid, moments later the big aggressive guy was screaming as the little guy did a piston move with the knife.
We are not paid to be involved so unless it’s directly at you and an exit is not possible then avoid.
The law on self defence is more clear than the media portray but I know from both the door and an incident where I was not involved but one of a group ran at me and I hit them, the Police don’t take things at face value and rightly so. All the people mentioning Judo should consider the reasonableness of slamming someone onto a concrete floor and what a jury would make if it, same a chokeholds. Fights are horrible fast moving and unpredictable and best avoided as the other person may be better.
Context is important and not putting one’s self in a difficult situation is a good base.
For courses if you want to seriously understand street violence any of the protégés of Peter Consterdine or Geoff Thompson would be good.
Self defence and sport combat are different and ones not better but being able to batter someone is only one component of self defence, some others are legal, moral and financial.
None of this considers weapon's
I say this as it’s too easy get moderately proficient at something and then lose sight of the fact that the whole point is not fight. There was a study about new black belts in America and when they drilled down they found at a subconscious level they actually sort conflict to almost test themselves.
Any of them. If you're doing it for self defence having a good knowledge of any fighting art will give you such an advantage over the average Joe, especially after they've had a few pints. I personally found kickboxing gave you the best bang for your buck and it was the one I chose to do and compete in for many years. It gets straight to the point instead of spending months and years learning parts that are unnecessary for what you want out of it.
Jiu Jitsu has become the accepted most effective but that's only really because it fits MMA perfectly. Kung fu, boxing, karate, muay thai, jiu jitsu, whatever you choose the only thing I'd say is go to a proper school, not a bloke teaching in the local sports hall type affair.
Jiu Jitsu has become the accepted most effective but that's only really because it fits MMA perfectly. Kung fu, boxing, karate, muay thai, jiu jitsu, whatever you choose the only thing I'd say is go to a proper school, not a bloke teaching in the local sports hall type affair.
DaveA8 said:
I have a number of issues with Krav Maga or to be fair the few courses I experienced. I worked as a doorman for nearly 5 years in the early 90’s and have seen and been subjected to some horrible violence and gave a good bit back.
This is just my experience but anyone advocating grappling as a primary art for self defence does not under street confrontations, fights go to the ground but getting up is critical, I know of an incident where a random unconnected girl walked by and kicked the bloke on top in the eye, he lost his eye.
I’m mid 50’s and have trained on and off the nearly 40 years yet if I spar with my son who’s 17, he will beat me to the punch every time, it’s a matter of fact reactions drop massively with age but to remind him of danger I’ll close up and get in close where speed is not the king but precision is.
I worked with a guy who gouged someone’s eye out in a fight, Krav Maga will tell people to do that but 99% of normal people won’t so what’s the point in training it.
Situational awareness is key, at 7.30am today I was about to go into a Tesco with my wife and I heard shouting, I turned the trolley around and went back to the car but watched from a distance, it 3 people shop lifting getting out a a few staff sort of tussling, I waited until they left or in Lowndes Crescent where houses are £20m but I spied three guys having a heated conversation, they were near the pay machine, I said to the person with me why had the small guy not taken his left hand out of his pocket but was very animated, my friend told me I was paranoid, moments later the big aggressive guy was screaming as the little guy did a piston move with the knife.
We are not paid to be involved so unless it’s directly at you and an exit is not possible then avoid.
The law on self defence is more clear than the media portray but I know from both the door and an incident where I was not involved but one of a group ran at me and I hit them, the Police don’t take things at face value and rightly so. All the people mentioning Judo should consider the reasonableness of slamming someone onto a concrete floor and what a jury would make if it, same a chokeholds. Fights are horrible fast moving and unpredictable and best avoided as the other person may be better.
Context is important and not putting one’s self in a difficult situation is a good base.
For courses if you want to seriously understand street violence any of the protégés of Peter Consterdine or Geoff Thompson would be good.
Self defence and sport combat are different and ones not better but being able to batter someone is only one component of self defence, some others are legal, moral and financial.
None of this considers weapon's
I say this as it’s too easy get moderately proficient at something and then lose sight of the fact that the whole point is not fight. There was a study about new black belts in America and when they drilled down they found at a subconscious level they actually sort conflict to almost test themselves.
The doors really give you a good grounding in situational awareness. It was my main job for 33 years before becoming a school teacher, the last dozen years or so of my career including designing and delivering conflict management and physical intervention programmes across Scotland so people could attain their SIA badges. This is just my experience but anyone advocating grappling as a primary art for self defence does not under street confrontations, fights go to the ground but getting up is critical, I know of an incident where a random unconnected girl walked by and kicked the bloke on top in the eye, he lost his eye.
I’m mid 50’s and have trained on and off the nearly 40 years yet if I spar with my son who’s 17, he will beat me to the punch every time, it’s a matter of fact reactions drop massively with age but to remind him of danger I’ll close up and get in close where speed is not the king but precision is.
I worked with a guy who gouged someone’s eye out in a fight, Krav Maga will tell people to do that but 99% of normal people won’t so what’s the point in training it.
Situational awareness is key, at 7.30am today I was about to go into a Tesco with my wife and I heard shouting, I turned the trolley around and went back to the car but watched from a distance, it 3 people shop lifting getting out a a few staff sort of tussling, I waited until they left or in Lowndes Crescent where houses are £20m but I spied three guys having a heated conversation, they were near the pay machine, I said to the person with me why had the small guy not taken his left hand out of his pocket but was very animated, my friend told me I was paranoid, moments later the big aggressive guy was screaming as the little guy did a piston move with the knife.
We are not paid to be involved so unless it’s directly at you and an exit is not possible then avoid.
The law on self defence is more clear than the media portray but I know from both the door and an incident where I was not involved but one of a group ran at me and I hit them, the Police don’t take things at face value and rightly so. All the people mentioning Judo should consider the reasonableness of slamming someone onto a concrete floor and what a jury would make if it, same a chokeholds. Fights are horrible fast moving and unpredictable and best avoided as the other person may be better.
Context is important and not putting one’s self in a difficult situation is a good base.
For courses if you want to seriously understand street violence any of the protégés of Peter Consterdine or Geoff Thompson would be good.
Self defence and sport combat are different and ones not better but being able to batter someone is only one component of self defence, some others are legal, moral and financial.
None of this considers weapon's
I say this as it’s too easy get moderately proficient at something and then lose sight of the fact that the whole point is not fight. There was a study about new black belts in America and when they drilled down they found at a subconscious level they actually sort conflict to almost test themselves.
My brain always helped me more than my judo, mma, size and strength during my long career on the front door (I worked front doors from 17-50 years old)...but I'd be lying if I didn't say those more basic attributes didn't help when push, sometimes inevitably came to shove. Fights, as you suggest, tend to be short, very violent and explosive in reality, and best avoided if possible. With regards going to the ground, that was a comment based on observing many drunken fights, and it's something to be avoided in a situation where many are fighting and for the very reason you describe. That said, I always found the ability to take the loudest most challenging 'threat' out of the game quickly, efficiently and without hurting them and then controlling them absolutely usually took the stuffing out of them and dettered the majority of the jackals on the periphery!! With regards the legality of Judo and other grappling arts, they have always been preferable to striking arts in the eyes of the law although obviously carry their own dangers. Chokes and strangles should be avoided unless in life threatening situations in my opinion.
Edited by biggbn on Saturday 29th June 19:47
s3pc1989 said:
Hi All,
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.
Thanks all....
Boxing.I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.
Thanks all....
SlimJim16v said:
Some really good posts.
I would add, Krav Maga is overrated, and grappling is not very good against more than one person.
Unless you are very proficient, nothing much works against more than one protagonist if they are intent on hurting you and not just rowdy, drunken yobs, as the saying goes, I don't care if your Muhammad im 'ard Bruce Lee, there are few people who will proficiently defend themselves on several skilled attackers. I would add, Krav Maga is overrated, and grappling is not very good against more than one person.
biggbn said:
The doors really give you a good grounding in situational awareness. It was my main job for 33 years before becoming a school teacher, the last dozen years or so of my career including designing and delivering conflict management and physical intervention programmes across Scotland so people could attain their SIA badges.
My brain always helped me more than my judo, mma, size and strength during my long career on the front door (I worked front doors from 17-50 years old)..
Fair play over 30yrs, I absolutely hated it but I had a new baby, my wife wasn’t working and the nice asst manager at Halifax made it clear if I defaulted on the mortgage he’d make sure we’d never get one again so off I went. I still don’t like Fridays all these years later.
I nearly got squirted with ammonia only that a colleague hit the guy as he took his hand out of his pocket, it’s odd as sometime later a guy who hadn’t been in with us got squirted, I can still recall the scene, he couldn’t scream but just gurgled and rolled around like a fish out of water.
To do 30 yrs plus is mind boggling
My brain always helped me more than my judo, mma, size and strength during my long career on the front door (I worked front doors from 17-50 years old)..
Fair play over 30yrs, I absolutely hated it but I had a new baby, my wife wasn’t working and the nice asst manager at Halifax made it clear if I defaulted on the mortgage he’d make sure we’d never get one again so off I went. I still don’t like Fridays all these years later.
I nearly got squirted with ammonia only that a colleague hit the guy as he took his hand out of his pocket, it’s odd as sometime later a guy who hadn’t been in with us got squirted, I can still recall the scene, he couldn’t scream but just gurgled and rolled around like a fish out of water.
To do 30 yrs plus is mind boggling
Edited by biggbn on Saturday 29th June 19:47
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