Defence Helicopter Flying School

[MrBig]

ZM506 flew over me earlier. Didn't see it but from the FR24 database it looks like the same colours as the local 5-0 chopper:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zm506

What's the story, do they operate the Police helicopters or just have a fleet in the same colours?

[Condado]

Standard colours so they can be seen easier in the air. I think the term used is conspicuity in aviation.

[Geneve]

The Defence Flying School is based at Shawbury and operates Junos (Airbus H135s) and Jupiters (Airbus 145s) - both twins

It surprises me that they don’t do the ab initio training on singles - unless anyone knows differently.
But AFAIK, the Squirrels and Gazelles are now retired.
Even the little Cabri would surely be a much cheaper and faster way to get the first 40+ hrs completed.

[aeropilot]

MrBig said:

ZM506 flew over me earlier. Didn't see it but from the FR24 database it looks like the same colours as the local 5-0 chopper:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zm506

What's the story, do they operate the Police helicopters or just have a fleet in the same colours?

Fleet in same colours, as I believe they are 'leased' from same Govt contract source, or something like that?

[ric p]

aeropilot said:

MrBig said:

ZM506 flew over me earlier. Didn't see it but from the FR24 database it looks like the same colours as the local 5-0 chopper:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zm506

What's the story, do they operate the Police helicopters or just have a fleet in the same colours?

Fleet in same colours, as I believe they are 'leased' from same Govt contract source, or something like that?

Just coincidence as the most conspicuous colours. Dark against a light sky and yellow against the ground from above.

The Police ones, belonging to the National Police Air Service, as owned by West Yorkshire Police, who are the Lead Force for NPAS. They are an amalgamation of all the Airbus helicopters that were owned or leased by the individual forces a dozen years ago and then taken under single Force ownership for the national model.

The Shawbury ones are MOD leased for the military flying trading contract.

[GliderRider]

Geneve said:

The Defence Flying School is based at Shawbury and operates Junos (Airbus H135s) and Jupiters (Airbus 145s) - both twins

It surprises me that they don’t do the ab initio training on singles - unless anyone knows differently.
But AFAIK, the Squirrels and Gazelles are now retired.
Even the little Cabri would surely be a much cheaper and faster way to get the first 40+ hrs completed.

Possibly so the helcopters can be operated at night (or at least night flying rules), even if its only positioning flights, maybe they have any secondary role which would justify a second engine, and given how risk averse the Military Aviation Authority is these days, maybe the risk assessment demanded it?

[MrBig]

Question fully answered then. Thanks all!

[ecsrobin]

GliderRider said:

Possibly so the helcopters can be operated at night (or at least night flying rules), even if its only positioning flights, maybe they have any secondary role which would justify a second engine, and given how risk averse the Military Aviation Authority is these days, maybe the risk assessment demanded it?

They also train rear crew Which includes winch Ops and I suspect a decent amount over water So that probably helps with the decision.

[GliderRider]

ecsrobin said:

GliderRider said:

Possibly so the helcopters can be operated at night (or at least night flying rules), even if its only positioning flights, maybe they have any secondary role which would justify a second engine, and given how risk averse the Military Aviation Authority is these days, maybe the risk assessment demanded it?

They also train rear crew Which includes winch Ops and I suspect a decent amount over water So that probably helps with the decision.

ecsrobin, that makes sense. Spending time hovering below autoratation altitude and with people directly below is not a good place for a single engined helicopter (or those people).

[ARHarh]

GliderRider said:

Geneve said:

The Defence Flying School is based at Shawbury and operates Junos (Airbus H135s) and Jupiters (Airbus 145s) - both twins

It surprises me that they don’t do the ab initio training on singles - unless anyone knows differently.
But AFAIK, the Squirrels and Gazelles are now retired.
Even the little Cabri would surely be a much cheaper and faster way to get the first 40+ hrs completed.

Possibly so the helcopters can be operated at night (or at least night flying rules), even if its only positioning flights, maybe they have any secondary role which would justify a second engine, and given how risk averse the Military Aviation Authority is these days, maybe the risk assessment demanded it?

Living well in the training area for these helicopters they rarely fly after dark, and if they do the residents affected are warned in advance. Only happened twice in the 12 years i have lived here. This may be different nearer Shawbury.

We often see them flying through our valley, very low and level with my house. Lots travelling to "enthusiastically" drive on the Welsh roads believe the police are keeping an eye on the roads.

[48k]

Geneve said:

The Defence Flying School is based at Shawbury and operates Junos (Airbus H135s) and Jupiters (Airbus 145s) - both twins

It surprises me that they don’t do the ab initio training on singles - unless anyone knows differently.
But AFAIK, the Squirrels and Gazelles are now retired.
Even the little Cabri would surely be a much cheaper and faster way to get the first 40+ hrs completed.

Yes it sounds a bit unusual doesn't it. Students are effectively doing a PPL(H) and multi engine at the same time. And on turbines.
I guess it's a quicker route to having them ready for the next stage instead of having to start out on a single piston engine and then do a conversion. Plus in terms of maintenance and operations its simpler if there are only turbine aircraft to fuel and maintain.

[DP14]

48k said:

Geneve said:

It surprises me that they don’t do the ab initio training on singles - unless anyone knows differently.

Yes it sounds a bit unusual doesn't it. Students are effectively doing a PPL(H) and multi engine at the same time. And on turbines.

In my limited understanding of the process, training starts on the Grob. Previously the single-engine piston Tutor, now the single turboprop Prefect, before moving on to the helicopters.

[ATG]

ARHarh said:

GliderRider said:

Geneve said:

The Defence Flying School is based at Shawbury and operates Junos (Airbus H135s) and Jupiters (Airbus 145s) - both twins

It surprises me that they don’t do the ab initio training on singles - unless anyone knows differently.
But AFAIK, the Squirrels and Gazelles are now retired.
Even the little Cabri would surely be a much cheaper and faster way to get the first 40+ hrs completed.

Possibly so the helcopters can be operated at night (or at least night flying rules), even if its only positioning flights, maybe they have any secondary role which would justify a second engine, and given how risk averse the Military Aviation Authority is these days, maybe the risk assessment demanded it?

Living well in the training area for these helicopters they rarely fly after dark, and if they do the residents affected are warned in advance. Only happened twice in the 12 years i have lived here. This may be different nearer Shawbury.

We often see them flying through our valley, very low and level with my house. Lots travelling to "enthusiastically" drive on the Welsh roads believe the police are keeping an eye on the roads.

Hello neighbour. I see them night flying from time to time near Alberbury / Criggion as I drive through that area btwn 11pm and midnight at least once a week. Not many people to disturb if they stick to the flood plain.

[ARHarh]

ATG said:

Hello neighbour. I see them night flying from time to time near Alberbury / Criggion as I drive through that area btwn 11pm and midnight at least once a week. Not many people to disturb if they stick to the flood plain.

That's interesting as I am not far from Llynclys and rarely see them after dark out here and it's not that many miles away.

I do like to see them though.