Debit card contactless limit
Discussion
I have a Nat West debit card and seem to be forever having my card "Declined", which actually means it need the PIN entering, but the card reader doesn't actually say that and it takes a clued up till operator to realise that is what the issue is. Anyway, after yet another occurrence of my card being "declined" in a shop and yet another phone call to Nat West to confirm everything is fine with my account, I was told that the contactless limit of £100, is not only for one payment, but an accumulation of contactless payments, ie. 10 payments at £10 each. I can sort of see the reasoning there, but why does my wifes card for the same account never seem to reach its limit ? Should I be paranoid ? 
I had something similar with my Barclaycard a few years back, to the point I just used to insert it by default.
After several months I got a message from Barclaycard saying if I'd been having problems they've now resolved it, and indeed it worked fine thereafter.
Never found out what the issue was though, so sorry absolutely no help here!
After several months I got a message from Barclaycard saying if I'd been having problems they've now resolved it, and indeed it worked fine thereafter.
Never found out what the issue was though, so sorry absolutely no help here!
That`s the annoying part. Most of the machines I seem to use just say card declined, very rarely do they actually say "Insert card", which would be much less embarrassing ! It does seem to be a Nat West issue though, as I have heard of a few people with the same issue. I also can't use either of my Nat West cards for a couple of direct debits, as they just get refused every time. Again Nat West say there is no issue their side. I have been holding off putting my cards on my phone, as I am an old git, but it might be an option.
I've had a lot of declines recently too and just put the card into the reader and enter my pin.
I'm a little out of date now, but I think that acquiring software now has geolocation tracking. i.e. if you lived in Winchester and most of your transactions were in that location and one popped up in somewhere like Didcot and then another one an hour later popped up in Newbury then it might decline or prompt for card entry because it's outside of your regular pattern.
Each bank sets a 1 in N check for transactions to force you to enter the pin on N number of transactions. The 1 in N check is not cumulative in terms of value and in theory you could tap to pay £100 each time until you hit the N limit. However, the tracking algorithm might then kick in and say that your typical shop at Waitrose in Winchester is £60 each week and £100 in Tesco multiple times might set it off.
It's also worth noting that companies like Tesco can (but not always will) self authorise due to the sheer number of transactions they're handling every minute. In the case of a fraudulent transaction its the merchant who takes the hit rather than the issuing bank.
I'm a little out of date now, but I think that acquiring software now has geolocation tracking. i.e. if you lived in Winchester and most of your transactions were in that location and one popped up in somewhere like Didcot and then another one an hour later popped up in Newbury then it might decline or prompt for card entry because it's outside of your regular pattern.
Each bank sets a 1 in N check for transactions to force you to enter the pin on N number of transactions. The 1 in N check is not cumulative in terms of value and in theory you could tap to pay £100 each time until you hit the N limit. However, the tracking algorithm might then kick in and say that your typical shop at Waitrose in Winchester is £60 each week and £100 in Tesco multiple times might set it off.
It's also worth noting that companies like Tesco can (but not always will) self authorise due to the sheer number of transactions they're handling every minute. In the case of a fraudulent transaction its the merchant who takes the hit rather than the issuing bank.
Arrivalist said:
I’m with NatWest and I only ever get ‘insert card’ messages on a random basis. Never seen the ‘declined’ message.
The one I had this morning was an app on the shops phone, so no option to insert card anyway, just a declined message. Tried another Nat West card, but got "Declined" again, although the bank have no record of that attempt. Luckily I had an M&S credit card in my wallet, which went straight through. Red9zero said:
Arrivalist said:
I’m with NatWest and I only ever get ‘insert card’ messages on a random basis. Never seen the ‘declined’ message.
The one I had this morning was an app on the shops phone, so no option to insert card anyway, just a declined message. Tried another Nat West card, but got "Declined" again, although the bank have no record of that attempt. Luckily I had an M&S credit card in my wallet, which went straight through. RustyMX5 said:
I've had a lot of declines recently too and just put the card into the reader and enter my pin.
I'm a little out of date now, but I think that acquiring software now has geolocation tracking. i.e. if you lived in Winchester and most of your transactions were in that location and one popped up in somewhere like Didcot and then another one an hour later popped up in Newbury then it might decline or prompt for card entry because it's outside of your regular pattern.
Each bank sets a 1 in N check for transactions to force you to enter the pin on N number of transactions. The 1 in N check is not cumulative in terms of value and in theory you could tap to pay £100 each time until you hit the N limit. However, the tracking algorithm might then kick in and say that your typical shop at Waitrose in Winchester is £60 each week and £100 in Tesco multiple times might set it off.
It's also worth noting that companies like Tesco can (but not always will) self authorise due to the sheer number of transactions they're handling every minute. In the case of a fraudulent transaction its the merchant who takes the hit rather than the issuing bank.
Todays "declined" transaction was less than 1/2 mile from home. I'm off to Le Mans in a week and never have any issues there, although I do let them know I will be in France. I'm a little out of date now, but I think that acquiring software now has geolocation tracking. i.e. if you lived in Winchester and most of your transactions were in that location and one popped up in somewhere like Didcot and then another one an hour later popped up in Newbury then it might decline or prompt for card entry because it's outside of your regular pattern.
Each bank sets a 1 in N check for transactions to force you to enter the pin on N number of transactions. The 1 in N check is not cumulative in terms of value and in theory you could tap to pay £100 each time until you hit the N limit. However, the tracking algorithm might then kick in and say that your typical shop at Waitrose in Winchester is £60 each week and £100 in Tesco multiple times might set it off.
It's also worth noting that companies like Tesco can (but not always will) self authorise due to the sheer number of transactions they're handling every minute. In the case of a fraudulent transaction its the merchant who takes the hit rather than the issuing bank.
Arrivalist said:
Red9zero said:
Arrivalist said:
I’m with NatWest and I only ever get ‘insert card’ messages on a random basis. Never seen the ‘declined’ message.
The one I had this morning was an app on the shops phone, so no option to insert card anyway, just a declined message. Tried another Nat West card, but got "Declined" again, although the bank have no record of that attempt. Luckily I had an M&S credit card in my wallet, which went straight through. Ohhhhh.... I wonder if it's a PAN range that hasn't been set up correctly somewhere which makes the transaction look fraudulent (invalid card number) rather than the issuer actually declining.
Inserting the card forces the reader to call an acquirer (either a proxy acquirer like Tesco or an an actual acquirer like NatWest) whilst the tap tends to be handled offline without a call to an acquirer. If its only happening with NatWest cards it does sound as though they've issued a pan range which isn't recognised by everyone.
Inserting the card forces the reader to call an acquirer (either a proxy acquirer like Tesco or an an actual acquirer like NatWest) whilst the tap tends to be handled offline without a call to an acquirer. If its only happening with NatWest cards it does sound as though they've issued a pan range which isn't recognised by everyone.
Red9zero said:
Arrivalist said:
Red9zero said:
Arrivalist said:
I’m with NatWest and I only ever get ‘insert card’ messages on a random basis. Never seen the ‘declined’ message.
The one I had this morning was an app on the shops phone, so no option to insert card anyway, just a declined message. Tried another Nat West card, but got "Declined" again, although the bank have no record of that attempt. Luckily I had an M&S credit card in my wallet, which went straight through. There is an accumulator for the number of consecutive transactions without the PIN. (in the UK contactless is PIN-less, but in other countries they often have contactless with PIN). There is also an accumulator for the total value of transactions without a PIN.
There are also accumulators for the number and value of consecutive and PIN-less transactions which are 'offline'. This is when the terminal (till) doesn't have internet access so cannot talk to your bank.
Basically there's a hierarchy of decisions made by both your card and the terminal, where they share information and both can accept or decline the transaction. The type of shops you use will have an effect because of how they report whether they are 'online' or 'offline'.
alock said:
There are quite a few settings on the card that control whether a contactless transaction is approved. The card keeps track of transactions in accumulators so it can decided whether the PIN is required.
There is an accumulator for the number of consecutive transactions without the PIN. (in the UK contactless is PIN-less, but in other countries they often have contactless with PIN). There is also an accumulator for the total value of transactions without a PIN.
There are also accumulators for the number and value of consecutive and PIN-less transactions which are 'offline'. This is when the terminal (till) doesn't have internet access so cannot talk to your bank.
Basically there's a hierarchy of decisions made by both your card and the terminal, where they share information and both can accept or decline the transaction. The type of shops you use will have an effect because of how they report whether they are 'online' or 'offline'.
That is my issue. My accumulator needs adjusting There is an accumulator for the number of consecutive transactions without the PIN. (in the UK contactless is PIN-less, but in other countries they often have contactless with PIN). There is also an accumulator for the total value of transactions without a PIN.
There are also accumulators for the number and value of consecutive and PIN-less transactions which are 'offline'. This is when the terminal (till) doesn't have internet access so cannot talk to your bank.
Basically there's a hierarchy of decisions made by both your card and the terminal, where they share information and both can accept or decline the transaction. The type of shops you use will have an effect because of how they report whether they are 'online' or 'offline'.
Might try using my wife's card and see if that is any better.Wills2 said:
I'm with NatWest, I get the declined message often but you just put the pin in and it goes through, shouldn't be a need for a phone call, but it's very annoying so much so I've started putting the card in and not using contactless.
That is my usual get out of jail card, but the shop this morning was using an app on a phone, so I couldn't even do that. Just had another message from Nat West confirming it is an accumulated £100 limit again. I have asked if it is over a set time as my wife never has this problem.I’ve got an RBS branded Mastercard debit card, but everything underneath should work exactly the same. You can adjust the contactless limit in the app, it’s under Manage my Card -> card payment controls -> contactless. I turned mine back down to £40 around the time it was raised to £100. This card definitely has a tendency to require chip & pin more often than any of the others that I have and as others have said it seems to manifest itself as declined transactions that work when they’re done as C&P. I usually just mumble something to the cashier about it not having done C&P for a while. Not been in a situation (yet!) when it’s been totally declined.
One thing you might find though: if you run your account close to zero balance, it seems to need a C&P transaction to go into overdraft, it won’t let you spend your way into overdraft entirely contactlessly. I’m never usually overdrawn for more than a few hours, so I can’t say if contactless will resume working or if it’ll insist on C&P after that.
Hope this is some use.
Out of curiosity, I thought NatWest group were re-issuing all their Visa debit cards on Mastercard. I got one of the beach hut ones ages ago, but my wife, on the same joint account, still has a Visa card. What’s everyone else finding?
One thing you might find though: if you run your account close to zero balance, it seems to need a C&P transaction to go into overdraft, it won’t let you spend your way into overdraft entirely contactlessly. I’m never usually overdrawn for more than a few hours, so I can’t say if contactless will resume working or if it’ll insist on C&P after that.
Hope this is some use.
Out of curiosity, I thought NatWest group were re-issuing all their Visa debit cards on Mastercard. I got one of the beach hut ones ages ago, but my wife, on the same joint account, still has a Visa card. What’s everyone else finding?
Contactless limit is set to £100, which is for one off payments. Apparently the accumulative limit of individual payments before a PIN is required is £140. The accounts are never overdrawn and there is always plenty of money in there to cover any payments. I do have the newer Mastercard card, but it made no difference to the amount of times I seem to have to enter a PIN. I can't even use Google pay on my phone, as it seems my old Samsung doesn't support it.
I know this seems like a 1st world problem, but I am so fed up of hearing "Card declined" while stood at the front of a queue in a shop !
I know this seems like a 1st world problem, but I am so fed up of hearing "Card declined" while stood at the front of a queue in a shop !
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