Why don't they sell
Discussion
jpf said:
Why doesn't the TVR outsell Porsche?
Why doesn't TVR sell 5-10,000 cars worldwide?
If sales were up, wouldn't things be better?
Various reasons. Porsche are undoubtedly perceived as a better car. Possibly true in one sense but not all.
Porsche also have a mega history and pedigree. That carries so much weight, its untrue. Repeat business is massive for Porsche but not so big with TVR. TVR's biggest market is possibly for first time TVR buyers.
There's a ton of factors I suppose.
It doesn't help that TVR don't sell all around the world like Porsche do.
Take a TVR abroad (I mean Europe) and the vast majority look like this...
while they try to work out what it is. >> Edited by lazyitus on Thursday 15th September 21:50
Without decending to the level of the Porsche Vs TVR argument that a couple of people perpetuated in the Chim thread, mainly it's about percieved image.
Porches are seen as more reliable, better made and TBH in a higher class. (This was until the likes of the Cerby came out). Generally they are more expensive and when it comes to showing off to your mates/work collegues (which is the reason a lot of people buy sports/prestige cars) Porsche does sound expensive.
But in compliment of Porche, they are very well build and reliable (in my experience). And they contain all the executive comforts which TVR do not have. For the average driver who wishes to show off in his new sports car, the TC and driver aids allow you to boot it without stuffing it into a hedge (within reason).
Only recently have TVR been evevated into the realms of true super cars in the general public's eyes.
Porches are seen as more reliable, better made and TBH in a higher class. (This was until the likes of the Cerby came out). Generally they are more expensive and when it comes to showing off to your mates/work collegues (which is the reason a lot of people buy sports/prestige cars) Porsche does sound expensive.
But in compliment of Porche, they are very well build and reliable (in my experience). And they contain all the executive comforts which TVR do not have. For the average driver who wishes to show off in his new sports car, the TC and driver aids allow you to boot it without stuffing it into a hedge (within reason).
Only recently have TVR been evevated into the realms of true super cars in the general public's eyes.
Now you've got me started!
Porsche sell more cars because they are mass produced, mass market, bland unchallenging, safe bet, default sports car for people who don't know anything about sports cars or how to drive them. Most sales are to balding, mid life crisis types and most are sold with ghastly tip-tronic boxes. For most british people with means it goes VW Polo, VW Golf, VW Golf git, BMW M3, 911. If this is you get a TVR before it's too late and stop being such a sheep.
Overall Porsche's percieved reliability and residuals are attractive to most buyers. This is not without foundation but don't mention residuals to a GT2 owner. A major reason for a porsche over most other fast cars is their every day usability. The downside of this is they can't be too low or too wildly styled or have too wide front tyres. It's all about being conservative which is cool to some degree but lots of their cars are downright hideous to me - cayenne, cayman? Other than that I think it's the german mentality. I don't think the germans ever got the italian idea of 'so what if it breaks down when it looks and sounds so beautiful'. Germans must laugh at cool looking cars without good turning circles etc. Germans build vehicles that do stuff, not objects of desire or art. And fair play to them. Most of the time that's what you want I guess.
Wierdly porsche stands out in preserving some notion of 'character' - very ungerman - by stubbornly sticking to antiquated and anachronistic features like the rear engine. Yes they've contained it with electronics but it's still a fundamentally unsound idea. And definitely not for me.
But porsche have proven me wrong consistently. I said the Cayenne would never sell and it would destroy the brand. How wrong can you get? Racing pedigree? Clearly no-one gives a stuff.
TVR's are too extreme, too challenging, too loud, too characterful, too individual and far too much fun for most people. Sadly it seems they're also too British!
Porsche sell more cars because they are mass produced, mass market, bland unchallenging, safe bet, default sports car for people who don't know anything about sports cars or how to drive them. Most sales are to balding, mid life crisis types and most are sold with ghastly tip-tronic boxes. For most british people with means it goes VW Polo, VW Golf, VW Golf git, BMW M3, 911. If this is you get a TVR before it's too late and stop being such a sheep.
Overall Porsche's percieved reliability and residuals are attractive to most buyers. This is not without foundation but don't mention residuals to a GT2 owner. A major reason for a porsche over most other fast cars is their every day usability. The downside of this is they can't be too low or too wildly styled or have too wide front tyres. It's all about being conservative which is cool to some degree but lots of their cars are downright hideous to me - cayenne, cayman? Other than that I think it's the german mentality. I don't think the germans ever got the italian idea of 'so what if it breaks down when it looks and sounds so beautiful'. Germans must laugh at cool looking cars without good turning circles etc. Germans build vehicles that do stuff, not objects of desire or art. And fair play to them. Most of the time that's what you want I guess.
Wierdly porsche stands out in preserving some notion of 'character' - very ungerman - by stubbornly sticking to antiquated and anachronistic features like the rear engine. Yes they've contained it with electronics but it's still a fundamentally unsound idea. And definitely not for me.
But porsche have proven me wrong consistently. I said the Cayenne would never sell and it would destroy the brand. How wrong can you get? Racing pedigree? Clearly no-one gives a stuff.
TVR's are too extreme, too challenging, too loud, too characterful, too individual and far too much fun for most people. Sadly it seems they're also too British!
ShanksPony said:
Lack of an effective Marketing department in TVR might also have a factor on sales.
Perhaps it's more fundamental than that... which market are they after..?
List prices continue to rise... a nicely spec'd Sagaris or Tuscan is approching poverty-spec 911... then of course with the new AMV8 coming out it's not too much further for one of them.
Back in the "glory days" of the Griff/Chim and the IT boom, the RV8 cars offered huge power per £... not so much the case these days...
Sadly it is little more than perception and urban myth. The fact is most people in this world are stupid and gullable. This means ALL Porsches are built to withstand an atomic blast and ALL TVR's snap in half after 28 miles.
The reality is that TVR as a company are too small and too young/inovative to spend 20 years of testing and development on a single model. Porsche have had the time and achieved miracles but even so the running costs are not cheap and yes, bits DO fall off them from time to time.
Porsche has a fantastic racing pedigree and the 911 is a fantastically capable machine. They make it very well and it deserves its iconic status. I however find them cliched and bland and would never buy one. It has no soul and no style by design. It seems alot more people want an icon than want an adventure.
.....that and TVR flatly refuse to market their product in any way, and are painfully slow at International growth. Maybe they secretly enjoy being a niche manufacturer.
>> Edited by jamesk on Friday 16th September 12:42
The reality is that TVR as a company are too small and too young/inovative to spend 20 years of testing and development on a single model. Porsche have had the time and achieved miracles but even so the running costs are not cheap and yes, bits DO fall off them from time to time.
Porsche has a fantastic racing pedigree and the 911 is a fantastically capable machine. They make it very well and it deserves its iconic status. I however find them cliched and bland and would never buy one. It has no soul and no style by design. It seems alot more people want an icon than want an adventure.
.....that and TVR flatly refuse to market their product in any way, and are painfully slow at International growth. Maybe they secretly enjoy being a niche manufacturer.
>> Edited by jamesk on Friday 16th September 12:42
jamesk said:
Sadly it is little more than perception and urban myth. The fact is most people in this world are stupid and gullable. This means ALL Porsches are built to withstand an atomic blast and ALL TVR's snap in half after 28 miles.
The reality is that TVR as a company are too small and too young/inovative to spend 20 years of testing and development on a single model. Porsche have had the time and achieved miracles but even so the running costs are not cheap and yes, bits DO fall off them from time to time.
Porsche has a fantastic racing pedigree and the 911 is a fantastically capable machine. They make it very well and it deserves its iconic status. I however find them cliched and bland and would never buy one. It has no soul and no style by design. It seems alot more people want an icon than want an adventure.
.....that and TVR flatly refuse to market their product in any way, and are painfully slow at International growth. Maybe they secretly enjoy being a niche manufacturer.
Well said.
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