Discussion
Hi all.
Considering a 5 Touring / X5 with a 30/35/40d (to replace an aged Landcruiser Amazon 100 series as the family bus and reduced time spent on maintenance…).
Was aware of the timing chain issue (not a problem until v high miles?), but I’m increasingly reading about major bearing/crank issues writing off the engine because the block also gets warped from the heat. This on top of EGR/cooler issues. I can’t see any pattern to the engines affected, even cared-for ones seem to fail; maybe more common in the twin-turbo. Grateful for any experience and info, and recommendation of any specialist who might be able to advise.
Considering a 5 Touring / X5 with a 30/35/40d (to replace an aged Landcruiser Amazon 100 series as the family bus and reduced time spent on maintenance…).
Was aware of the timing chain issue (not a problem until v high miles?), but I’m increasingly reading about major bearing/crank issues writing off the engine because the block also gets warped from the heat. This on top of EGR/cooler issues. I can’t see any pattern to the engines affected, even cared-for ones seem to fail; maybe more common in the twin-turbo. Grateful for any experience and info, and recommendation of any specialist who might be able to advise.
helix402 said:
Avoid. Why by a car where the engine may fail spectacularly? The consequences of N57 failure can also be fatal. B57 is supposed to be improved.
I’m interested to understand why you say that. I’ve read the thread about the police car that threw a rod through the sump, sadly causing the death of the police officer. But other cars have also suffered major engine failures, rods through blocks etc, for as long as we’ve had cars. Would you also advise this for the V6 Landies that snap their cranks?
Baddie said:
I’m interested to understand why you say that. I’ve read the thread about the police car that threw a rod through the sump, sadly causing the death of the police officer.
But other cars have also suffered major engine failures, rods through blocks etc, for as long as we’ve had cars. Would you also advise this for the V6 Landies that snap their cranks?
My thoughts are that there is a huge variety of used cars available. Why buy one with a key component that may fail, when other more reliable cars are available? Everyone’s attitude to risk varies. As you say, I’m sure lots of N57s don’t break. But other cars have also suffered major engine failures, rods through blocks etc, for as long as we’ve had cars. Would you also advise this for the V6 Landies that snap their cranks?
helix402 said:
My thoughts are that there is a huge variety of used cars available. Why buy one with a key component that may fail, when other more reliable cars are available? Everyone’s attitude to risk varies. As you say, I’m sure lots of N57s don’t break.
Thank you. Not sure there are many cars that would haul lots of stuff long distances in real comfort up to 15-16 yrs old reliably. Thought the F11/15 BMWs would, may be sticking with the 19 yr old Landcruiser. Baddie said:
helix402 said:
Avoid. Why by a car where the engine may fail spectacularly? The consequences of N57 failure can also be fatal. B57 is supposed to be improved.
I’m interested to understand why you say that. I’ve read the thread about the police car that threw a rod through the sump, sadly causing the death of the police officer. But other cars have also suffered major engine failures, rods through blocks etc, for as long as we’ve had cars. Would you also advise this for the V6 Landies that snap their cranks?
Other than that they're a solid engine that like all other engines, can have some foibles
Ignore most of what tou read/hear re the negative side of things; there's be piles of 30D engines in a corner somewhere that all blow up at 100k miles if you believed all that (same with the N20 / N47 engines etc)
There are lots out there that have been looked after, maintained well and serviced well that are running well, at high miles etc
It's all about due diligence; find one that has the paperwork & invoices to show it's been looked after and yu'll be fine... Ignore that and buy at your own peril
Take in all the negative side of it and believe that; then don't bother at all!
d_a_n1979 said:
Baddie said:
helix402 said:
Avoid. Why by a car where the engine may fail spectacularly? The consequences of N57 failure can also be fatal. B57 is supposed to be improved.
I’m interested to understand why you say that. I’ve read the thread about the police car that threw a rod through the sump, sadly causing the death of the police officer. But other cars have also suffered major engine failures, rods through blocks etc, for as long as we’ve had cars. Would you also advise this for the V6 Landies that snap their cranks?
Other than that they're a solid engine that like all other engines, can have some foibles
Ignore most of what tou read/hear re the negative side of things; there's be piles of 30D engines in a corner somewhere that all blow up at 100k miles if you believed all that (same with the N20 / N47 engines etc)
There are lots out there that have been looked after, maintained well and serviced well that are running well, at high miles etc
It's all about due diligence; find one that has the paperwork & invoices to show it's been looked after and yu'll be fine... Ignore that and buy at your own peril
Take in all the negative side of it and believe that; then don't bother at all!
They're not all bad - whilst chain breakage isn't as common as the N47 they do wear. Many are well worn by 100k so listen for a light tinkle noise just off idle - that's valves just kissing the piston crowns. The 30d is the one to have if you must and the 35d/40d is just that bit too marginal at higher mileages. Talk to any BMW specialist and they will enlighten you.
Given that most higher mileage examples will have been serviced according to the long life oil thing, tread carefully. You've no idea how any used car has been driven and they are not as forgiving as the previous M57, a very tough engine to break. I know of a 535d Touring on its third engine at 150k. The first one seized at 110k, the reconditioned one lasted 30k and the current one is ok. The days of over engineered bulletproof engines has long gone and Mercedes/Audi are no better.
Given that most higher mileage examples will have been serviced according to the long life oil thing, tread carefully. You've no idea how any used car has been driven and they are not as forgiving as the previous M57, a very tough engine to break. I know of a 535d Touring on its third engine at 150k. The first one seized at 110k, the reconditioned one lasted 30k and the current one is ok. The days of over engineered bulletproof engines has long gone and Mercedes/Audi are no better.
Thank you.
Spoke to a local specialist. He said they see chains going at 60k, depending on maintenance/usage, and recommended replacing at 100k (£3 k engine out job). To do the main bearings as well is more like £4.5k. Then service twice as often as BMW advise.
The twin-turbo is worse. This may be because one of the main bearings appears to be fed from the turbo oil-return, so hotter/thinner oil.
Agree none of the alternatives are better. The “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread is illuminating, both for how hard the cars are used and for how alternatives are mostly even worse.
Spoke to a local specialist. He said they see chains going at 60k, depending on maintenance/usage, and recommended replacing at 100k (£3 k engine out job). To do the main bearings as well is more like £4.5k. Then service twice as often as BMW advise.
The twin-turbo is worse. This may be because one of the main bearings appears to be fed from the turbo oil-return, so hotter/thinner oil.
Agree none of the alternatives are better. The “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread is illuminating, both for how hard the cars are used and for how alternatives are mostly even worse.
Edited by Baddie on Thursday 30th May 16:41
I-am-the-reverend said:
What a shame. Remember when the old E39 530d's just did 200,000 miles with an annual oil change?
What happened to BMW?
Not sure how much is down to engineering / manufacturing. Modern service intervals have a lot to answer for. Every taxi driver I ride with gets frequent oil changes, and their cars rarely seem to have problems, whatever the make, well into 6 figures. What happened to BMW?
Baddie said:
I-am-the-reverend said:
What a shame. Remember when the old E39 530d's just did 200,000 miles with an annual oil change?
What happened to BMW?
Not sure how much is down to engineering / manufacturing. Modern service intervals have a lot to answer for. Every taxi driver I ride with gets frequent oil changes, and their cars rarely seem to have problems, whatever the make, well into 6 figures. What happened to BMW?
They drive everywhere; with equipment in their F11 530D N57 and F31 320D N47 - both with close to 170k & 150k miles respectively
His Dads F10 530D N57 has now done nearly 219k miles as that's what he's used towards the end of his career due to not needing to lug anything about (he let Chris do that)!
They all get oil changes every 5k miles without fail; all on their original chains/guides etc - just had the usual EGR recalls and all on their 2nd DPF IIRC
Looked after, run right and driven right/not hammered from cold (ie mechanical sympathy) they'll do very well indeed
That's where, IMO, buying from an enthusiast pays off - or go for an N57 car with under 100k miles, under 10 years old and get BMW fully comp warranty for the 1st 12 months for peace of mind
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