ESC OFF isn't really OFF, is it?
Discussion
Noticed today two phenomenas:
1) It is quite often not possible to switch the ESC OFF in Sports Mode. When cruising around in Sports Mode, it very often takes ages and several trials until the ESC actually switches off, even with prolonged pressing of the designated switch nothing happens.
Am I to stupid or are there any tricks to switch it off on first attempt?
2) When pushing the limits I have the impression that the ESC is still engaging in Sports Mode with ESC OFF, just with much higher tolerances. Even in Track Mode I think I felt several single wheel brake inputs, especially when the car understeered while entering a tight hairpin bend.
Is that my imagination or is the ESC still active when switched OFF as a last chance safety backup?
1) It is quite often not possible to switch the ESC OFF in Sports Mode. When cruising around in Sports Mode, it very often takes ages and several trials until the ESC actually switches off, even with prolonged pressing of the designated switch nothing happens.
Am I to stupid or are there any tricks to switch it off on first attempt?
2) When pushing the limits I have the impression that the ESC is still engaging in Sports Mode with ESC OFF, just with much higher tolerances. Even in Track Mode I think I felt several single wheel brake inputs, especially when the car understeered while entering a tight hairpin bend.
Is that my imagination or is the ESC still active when switched OFF as a last chance safety backup?
Edited by k_m on Sunday 26th May 19:19
k_m said:
Noticed today two phenomenas:
1) It is quite often not possible to switch the ESC OFF in Sports Mode. When cruising around in Sports Mode, it very often takes ages and several trials until the ESC actually switches off, even with prolonged pressing of the designated switch nothing happens.
Am I to stupid or are there any tricks to switch it off on first attempt?
2) When pushing the limits I have the impression that the ESC is still engaging in Sports Mode with ESC OFF, just with much higher tolerances. Even in Track Mode I think I felt several single wheel brake inputs, especially when the car understeered while entering a tight hairpin bend.
Is that my imagination or is the ESC still active when switched OFF as a last chance safety backup?
I think that's right: ESC is switched to a different setting in Sport mode. When I watched all the YouTube reviews etc I'm sure there was one that showed this: the driver thought he had caught the car rather well, while his oppo thought it was the ESC that saved the day.1) It is quite often not possible to switch the ESC OFF in Sports Mode. When cruising around in Sports Mode, it very often takes ages and several trials until the ESC actually switches off, even with prolonged pressing of the designated switch nothing happens.
Am I to stupid or are there any tricks to switch it off on first attempt?
2) When pushing the limits I have the impression that the ESC is still engaging in Sports Mode with ESC OFF, just with much higher tolerances. Even in Track Mode I think I felt several single wheel brake inputs, especially when the car understeered while entering a tight hairpin bend.
Is that my imagination or is the ESC still active when switched OFF as a last chance safety backup?
Edited by k_m on Sunday 26th May 19:19
I am pretty sure it is turned off completely when you use the button (long press until its shown on the display).
Whats misleading is, that when you enter track mode it also shows esc off even though its just toned done a lot. (That confused me a lot when i got the car…)
And yes, the esc gets looser from normal -> sport -> track, but its only completely off when you use the button. And it also turns on again as soon as you change the mode.
Whats misleading is, that when you enter track mode it also shows esc off even though its just toned done a lot. (That confused me a lot when i got the car…)
And yes, the esc gets looser from normal -> sport -> track, but its only completely off when you use the button. And it also turns on again as soon as you change the mode.
It's certainly not clear. I read the manual many times trying to figure out what it says.
"Track mode delays operation on the ESC system and traction control"
+
"The message ESC Track is displayed on the instrument panel along with the (image of ESC Off light) warning light to inform you that all ESC system and traction control functions have been modified".
It then says in bold "The ESC system and traction control offer additional security , it is not recommended to drive with the function inhibited"
Then there is a section to turn ESC off entirely (suggested only for very wet ground, snow, mud.
"Select Track mode then press and hold the ESC bottom under the infotainment screen until the ESC off light (same on as described above) appears and the message "ESC OFF" comes up on the instrument panel."
Seems to be something that really ought to be made crystal clear!
I came to the conclusion that in Track mode the ESC is still on, but backed off despite the "ESC off" light being on in the dash. The manual however then gives further instructions on how to turn it off completely, which seems to back up that it's not fully off.
"Track mode delays operation on the ESC system and traction control"
+
"The message ESC Track is displayed on the instrument panel along with the (image of ESC Off light) warning light to inform you that all ESC system and traction control functions have been modified".
It then says in bold "The ESC system and traction control offer additional security , it is not recommended to drive with the function inhibited"
Then there is a section to turn ESC off entirely (suggested only for very wet ground, snow, mud.
"Select Track mode then press and hold the ESC bottom under the infotainment screen until the ESC off light (same on as described above) appears and the message "ESC OFF" comes up on the instrument panel."
Seems to be something that really ought to be made crystal clear!
I came to the conclusion that in Track mode the ESC is still on, but backed off despite the "ESC off" light being on in the dash. The manual however then gives further instructions on how to turn it off completely, which seems to back up that it's not fully off.
So only in Track mode it's possible to switch off the ECS completely. When switched off in Sports mode it still remains active in a degraded level.
Then we additionaly have the "LSD via brake input", what is not mentioned in the manual. That should also be disengaged when the ECS is switched off in Track mode, otherwise the driving on snow thingy would make no sense, wouldn't it?
Besides that, I still wonder why quite often it takes several attempts to switch the ESC off in Sports mode. I couldn't find any consistence here.
Then we additionaly have the "LSD via brake input", what is not mentioned in the manual. That should also be disengaged when the ECS is switched off in Track mode, otherwise the driving on snow thingy would make no sense, wouldn't it?
Besides that, I still wonder why quite often it takes several attempts to switch the ESC off in Sports mode. I couldn't find any consistence here.
Track mode isn't completely off - but if you press the button I think that does turn it off. I think this because I did it the other day and almost immediately lost the back end round a corner I know well. I won't be doing that again... Thankfully I managed to keep the car on the road.
ESC can be turned off in any mode, just hold down the button for 3 seconds until you get a dong and the message ESC off will appear.
When it is off it is off, no intervention.
There is another ESC mode in Track which is a 'looser' setting where it doesn't do much, you automatically have this setting when you select track mode but it confusingly gives the ESC off light on the dash. In track you still need to hold down the ESC button for 3 seconds to turn it off.
When it is off it is off, no intervention.
There is another ESC mode in Track which is a 'looser' setting where it doesn't do much, you automatically have this setting when you select track mode but it confusingly gives the ESC off light on the dash. In track you still need to hold down the ESC button for 3 seconds to turn it off.
Well, I still get the following phenomena in Sports mode with the ESP switched OFF via the designated switch:
When entering pretty fast tight hairpin bends the car produces a "BRRRRRRRRR" noise from the front compartement, like the ABS block is triggering, but without a mechanical feedback on the brake pedal. It seems to happen more in left bends, less in right bends.
I ask myself what intervention that could be?
ABS? But it happens also when I just slightly hit the brake pedal with no feedback. On all other cars I've had the brake pedal vibrates when the ABS triggers.
Understeer prevention? Is that still active with ESP off?
Electronical LSD? But it happens prior pushing the throttle pedal before passing the apex.
I still have to try if it's different in Track mode.
When entering pretty fast tight hairpin bends the car produces a "BRRRRRRRRR" noise from the front compartement, like the ABS block is triggering, but without a mechanical feedback on the brake pedal. It seems to happen more in left bends, less in right bends.
I ask myself what intervention that could be?
ABS? But it happens also when I just slightly hit the brake pedal with no feedback. On all other cars I've had the brake pedal vibrates when the ABS triggers.
Understeer prevention? Is that still active with ESP off?
Electronical LSD? But it happens prior pushing the throttle pedal before passing the apex.
I still have to try if it's different in Track mode.
Took another test drive today.
I can trigger the BRRRRRRR noise when provoking understeer in fast tight bends, so when turning the steering wheel further into the corner than required.
The noise is artificial, not like something is rubbing at the wheel arches or so.
It sounds like the ABS is triggering, but is not brake related, it happens also when I keep my foot off the brake pedal, so it cannot be the ABS.
And now the funny thing: It happens in all driving modes, regardless of the ESC condition. So in Normal mode with ESC active/OFF, in Sports mode with ESC active/OFF and in Track mode with ESC downgraded/OFF. Actually no difference at all when it happens.
However, I notice that the car reacts more "free" with ESC OFF or in Track mode with ESC downgraded than with ESC active, so I don't think I the ESC remains activated in error when switched OFF.
PS: tyre wear looks even, pressure is 2.0 bar on all 4 wheels. Brake disc wear more at the rear than oat the front.
I can trigger the BRRRRRRR noise when provoking understeer in fast tight bends, so when turning the steering wheel further into the corner than required.
The noise is artificial, not like something is rubbing at the wheel arches or so.
It sounds like the ABS is triggering, but is not brake related, it happens also when I keep my foot off the brake pedal, so it cannot be the ABS.
And now the funny thing: It happens in all driving modes, regardless of the ESC condition. So in Normal mode with ESC active/OFF, in Sports mode with ESC active/OFF and in Track mode with ESC downgraded/OFF. Actually no difference at all when it happens.
However, I notice that the car reacts more "free" with ESC OFF or in Track mode with ESC downgraded than with ESC active, so I don't think I the ESC remains activated in error when switched OFF.
PS: tyre wear looks even, pressure is 2.0 bar on all 4 wheels. Brake disc wear more at the rear than oat the front.
Edited by k_m on Saturday 6th July 13:57
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