Unpaid Utilities Bill - Who is responsible?
Discussion
Looking for some advice please.
Our son was renting a room in a student house last year, the tenancy agreement was all utility bills included and all the rents were paid to the letting agent (plus the deposit was kept but that's another story). A couple of weeks ago we received a bill in the post for just over £800 for gas for the property. We pulled out the tenancy agreement and sent a copy to the utility company but they stated that they needed written confirmation of acceptance of the bill from the letting agent.
We contacted the letting agent and discovered that they have gone into insolvency and resurrected themselves as a new company, From the correspondence that we have had with both the Lazarus letting agent and utility company it appears that the bills were originally sent to the letting agent and because they have gone insolvent they haven't been paid. The utilities company have then decided to charge the students directly, although they have only sent the bill to our son. In further communication from the utilities company they have suggested that they would be happy for our son to pay 1/4 of the bill and they will pursue the others for the remainder. Now whilst this may seem like a good offer I have a couple of issues.
Firstly, our son has already paid these bills albeit included in the rent.
Secondly, the utilities company have unilaterally decided that they can reassign liability for a contract, that they originally had with the letting agent, to our son, surely this isn't legal? Yes, I am aware of the Utilities Act but I can't believe that it applies under these circumstances.
Has anyone had any similar experiences and what was the outcome?
Our son was renting a room in a student house last year, the tenancy agreement was all utility bills included and all the rents were paid to the letting agent (plus the deposit was kept but that's another story). A couple of weeks ago we received a bill in the post for just over £800 for gas for the property. We pulled out the tenancy agreement and sent a copy to the utility company but they stated that they needed written confirmation of acceptance of the bill from the letting agent.
We contacted the letting agent and discovered that they have gone into insolvency and resurrected themselves as a new company, From the correspondence that we have had with both the Lazarus letting agent and utility company it appears that the bills were originally sent to the letting agent and because they have gone insolvent they haven't been paid. The utilities company have then decided to charge the students directly, although they have only sent the bill to our son. In further communication from the utilities company they have suggested that they would be happy for our son to pay 1/4 of the bill and they will pursue the others for the remainder. Now whilst this may seem like a good offer I have a couple of issues.
Firstly, our son has already paid these bills albeit included in the rent.
Secondly, the utilities company have unilaterally decided that they can reassign liability for a contract, that they originally had with the letting agent, to our son, surely this isn't legal? Yes, I am aware of the Utilities Act but I can't believe that it applies under these circumstances.
Has anyone had any similar experiences and what was the outcome?
I’ve had this the opposite way round in the past when a cheeky tenant told the utility company that he’d moved out (when he hadn’t). Utility company accepted copy of tenancy agreement and confirmation of actual move out date as proof of the tenant’s liability for bills over the entire period. The key here is that they were looking for proof of liability.
If I were the OP, I’d be going back to the utility company and being quite firm that my son was clearly not liable (and you’ve provided proof of this) and that it is down to them to establish whether the liability rested with the letting agent or landlord and bill that party accordingly.
Fwiw, if bills were included, I’d expect it to be the landlord rather than the agent who were on the hook (where agents collect the rent they usually do so on behalf of the landlord and remit monies onward, and it would strike me as a high risk model for a letting agent to be on the hook for unpaid utilities), but I don’t have any student properties some way that market operates might be slightly different.
If I were the OP, I’d be going back to the utility company and being quite firm that my son was clearly not liable (and you’ve provided proof of this) and that it is down to them to establish whether the liability rested with the letting agent or landlord and bill that party accordingly.
Fwiw, if bills were included, I’d expect it to be the landlord rather than the agent who were on the hook (where agents collect the rent they usually do so on behalf of the landlord and remit monies onward, and it would strike me as a high risk model for a letting agent to be on the hook for unpaid utilities), but I don’t have any student properties some way that market operates might be slightly different.
bad company said:
pghstochaj said:
Who had the account with the energy company?
That’s what we’ve all been asking. If the op’s son didn’t have the account he has no contract with them.Personally I think that the utilities company are playing fast and loose with the rules and are trying to bully our son into paying a share of the bill rather than have to write off a bad debt as a result of insolvency of the contracted party.
Under normal circumstances I would agree that the contract was with the letting agency and therefore nothing to do with our son. However, there is this thing called the Utilities Act 2000 where a utilities company can deem that a contract to supply exists with the person(s) using the service. I hope that this would only apply where a service has been obtained through devious methods in an effort to avoid paying which isn't the case here. In actual fact these services have been paid for by our son but the payment was made to the letting agent not the utilities company.
MKnight702 said:
In actual fact these services have been paid for by our son but the payment was made to the letting agent not the utilities company.
I thought from your first post that your son had rented the property on a “bills inclusive” basis? If so, the bills are nothing to do with him and everything do with the party his contract is with (which may or may not be the agent). I had a kind of similar situation.
It dragged on for years with the debt going to a debt collection agency.
Eventually I said take me to court.
Within a week they had written the debt off and stopped contacting me because they knew full well they wouldn't win and I wasn't paying otherwise through intimidation.
The
s did put it on my credit file though.
Doing it again I'd play hardball from the off instead of trying to get it sorted through logic and communication. Ask them to take it court and tell them you'll be there with your tenancy agreement. Hopefully that would get it shut down quicker than my case.
It dragged on for years with the debt going to a debt collection agency.
Eventually I said take me to court.
Within a week they had written the debt off and stopped contacting me because they knew full well they wouldn't win and I wasn't paying otherwise through intimidation.
The
s did put it on my credit file though.Doing it again I'd play hardball from the off instead of trying to get it sorted through logic and communication. Ask them to take it court and tell them you'll be there with your tenancy agreement. Hopefully that would get it shut down quicker than my case.
hellorent said:
I'm a LL if the signed tenancy agreement states that Mr XXXX is responsible for utilities, then
they have no legal standing to chase your son for any outstanding bills.
The tenancy agreement doesn't actually state that the letting agent is responsible, but it does state that the bills were included in the rental. The utilities company are saying that my son needs to get the letting agent to accept responsibility for the bill. This is going to be impossible since the company went into liquidation before coming back from the dead under another name. they have no legal standing to chase your son for any outstanding bills.
However, everything points to the fact that the utility company was billing the letting agent per their mutual contract and was not being paid. (The fact that the first time we see a bill is 8 months after our son left the property and the email from the director of both the old and new company stating that the utility company knew exactly what the situation was with the insolvency). It looks to all intents and purposes that the utilities company has realised that they stand zero chance of recovering the debt from the letting agent who was their customer and has decided to unilaterally amend the contract to be with our son who was (one of) the ultimate users of the service.
Its totally wrong.
BUT I'd just pay the £200 to save the hassle and protect your sons credit file.
Utilities companies are a complete nightmare to deal with. The effort to get it resolved will be massive and even then will probably mess up your sons credit file. £200 is a bargain to get them off your back. Even when it is resolved expect them to bill you again in the future for a small amount, as there probably using estimates for meter readings....it can take years to close the matter.
Ive had many conflicts with utilities companies over the years and the fight is never worth the effort.
Has he checked his credit report? See if its already recorded as a default?
ChocolateFrog said:
Doing it again I'd play hardball from the off instead of trying to get it sorted through logic and communication. Ask them to take it court and tell them you'll be there with your tenancy agreement. Hopefully that would get it shut down quicker than my case.
This is what you need to do. Ignore Caios advice which is terrible.I would chalk it down to experience and pay the £200. Not worth the time or stress of thinking about how to avoid it. Next time just don’t sign “bills included” or ask for a statement as you go along.
Incidentally, for things like this I operate a yearly “fk up fund”. It resets every year. Anything which I deem a mistake just goes under fk up fund. Then I just pay it and don’t make that mistake again, I also stop thinking about it and move on.
Incidentally, for things like this I operate a yearly “f
k up fund”. It resets every year. Anything which I deem a mistake just goes under fk up fund. Then I just pay it and don’t make that mistake again, I also stop thinking about it and move on. 
r3g said:
A lot of easy push-overs in this thread.
Are any of you going to volunteer to pay my utility bills if I transfer them over into your names? After all, it'd be easier just to pay them than contest them, so why not?
Where there is a clear chance of getting the money back I will. Where my son or I signed an ambiguous contract and it happened 8 months ago and it is £200 I will not bother. In this case, I would not bother and just move on.Are any of you going to volunteer to pay my utility bills if I transfer them over into your names? After all, it'd be easier just to pay them than contest them, so why not?
MKnight702 said:
The tenancy agreement doesn't actually state that the letting agent is responsible, but it does state that the bills were included in the rental. The utilities company are saying that my son needs to get the letting agent to accept responsibility for the bill. This is going to be impossible since the company went into liquidation before coming back from the dead under another name.
However, everything points to the fact that the utility company was billing the letting agent per their mutual contract and was not being paid. (The fact that the first time we see a bill is 8 months after our son left the property and the email from the director of both the old and new company stating that the utility company knew exactly what the situation was with the insolvency). It looks to all intents and purposes that the utilities company has realised that they stand zero chance of recovering the debt from the letting agent who was their customer and has decided to unilaterally amend the contract to be with our son who was (one of) the ultimate users of the service.
Same outcome, I'd send a copy of the TA highlighting bills are included in rent and include the name of person your son paid rent to along with proof of rent payment, they will back off.However, everything points to the fact that the utility company was billing the letting agent per their mutual contract and was not being paid. (The fact that the first time we see a bill is 8 months after our son left the property and the email from the director of both the old and new company stating that the utility company knew exactly what the situation was with the insolvency). It looks to all intents and purposes that the utilities company has realised that they stand zero chance of recovering the debt from the letting agent who was their customer and has decided to unilaterally amend the contract to be with our son who was (one of) the ultimate users of the service.
jonathan_roberts said:
r3g said:
A lot of easy push-overs in this thread.
Are any of you going to volunteer to pay my utility bills if I transfer them over into your names? After all, it'd be easier just to pay them than contest them, so why not?
Where there is a clear chance of getting the money back I will. Where my son or I signed an ambiguous contract and it happened 8 months ago and it is £200 I will not bother. In this case, I would not bother and just move on.Are any of you going to volunteer to pay my utility bills if I transfer them over into your names? After all, it'd be easier just to pay them than contest them, so why not?
That said I would be reporting the LA to HMRC as they probbaly have been pocketing the cash before going under
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