After Newey who will be the next great designer ?
Discussion
On a popular forum such as this where so many have different opinions I’m surprised that nobody has suggested a name of the next great designer. Is it because that these days cars are designed by a group rather than an individual?
Adrian Newey came to the top step via March and Williams who made his name. Fans still talk of the March as a great looking car and the Williams brought in the results.
Over the many years since then many people have worked with Adrian and then have moved to other teams but without the success Adrian has continued with. Many still are in the sport and in F1 there are nine other teams with many designers. After so many years it’s really only Adrian bringing in the results.
Adrian Newey came to the top step via March and Williams who made his name. Fans still talk of the March as a great looking car and the Williams brought in the results.
Over the many years since then many people have worked with Adrian and then have moved to other teams but without the success Adrian has continued with. Many still are in the sport and in F1 there are nine other teams with many designers. After so many years it’s really only Adrian bringing in the results.
Had the pleasure of working with a very long list of the great F1 designers but not worked with Newey
The greatest were,
Gordon Murray, 5 constructors and 3 drivers championships
Aldo Costa, 14 constructors and 12 drivers championships
Rory Byrne, 7 constructors and 7 drivers championships
Felt very privileged to experience working with them as they were all a joy to work with, very free with their knowledge and actively encouraged ideas other than their own
The F1 design game has changed so drastically I realy don't think there will be another 'great' F1 designer that could ever be compared to Newey
The greatest were,
Gordon Murray, 5 constructors and 3 drivers championships
Aldo Costa, 14 constructors and 12 drivers championships
Rory Byrne, 7 constructors and 7 drivers championships
Felt very privileged to experience working with them as they were all a joy to work with, very free with their knowledge and actively encouraged ideas other than their own
The F1 design game has changed so drastically I realy don't think there will be another 'great' F1 designer that could ever be compared to Newey
Eric Mc said:
There won't be one. Newey is the last designer to which a whole concept can be pinned. And even then it's probably at least 20 years since a "Newey" car really WAS a "Newey" car.
Modern F1 cars are designed by teams of engineers, mathematics and algorithims.
This.Modern F1 cars are designed by teams of engineers, mathematics and algorithims.
Newey is from an era where F1 teams were small and one guy designed pretty much the whole car.
That doesn't happen anymore, someone like Newey leads the direction of the car and identifies talent.
Now, that doesn't mean that he isn't the asset he once was, but a design being attributed to one person like that is likely a history thing.
Muzzer79 said:
Newey is from an era where F1 teams were small and one guy designed pretty much the whole car.
That doesn't happen anymore, someone like Newey leads the direction of the car and identifies talent.
Now, that doesn't mean that he isn't the asset he once was, but a design being attributed to one person like that is likely a history thing.
The design might nowadays not be attributable to a single person any longer as before but there's I think little doubt that Newey remains the key person as far as being able to get a winning F1 car is concerned given his repeated success compared to... well... everyone else despite veritable armies of technical boffins doing CFD/wind tunnel etc work back at the various factories in other teams. It shouldn't be that one person still is able to have such an impact but... it's hard to argue with the results he's had tbh and none of the other 'noted' designers from RB that have left for other teams have never been able to replicate anything like that level of success.That doesn't happen anymore, someone like Newey leads the direction of the car and identifies talent.
Now, that doesn't mean that he isn't the asset he once was, but a design being attributed to one person like that is likely a history thing.
marine boy said:
Had the pleasure of working with a very long list of the great F1 designers
We must have crossed paths in the past, I've been at it for more than 20 years, with Reynard, Arrows, Renault, Lotus, Mercedes and Alpine, but I can't quite put my finger on who you are 
(Did we sit next to each other at Alpine for a couple of days recently? You -Big Toyota truck and I've got an Alpine)To add to the list, I think John Owen was quite astute and James Allison was skilled in bringing a good team around him. Gary Anderson (I think) smelled of booze all the time.
Aldo was a lovely gentleman, but as others have already said, the design process isn't down to one character anymore. It's designed by a committee with a guiding hand. The stronger that guiding hand, the better.
thegreenhell said:
ChatGPT or Bing AI
Certainly an aspect of that for sure. It's already a team effort and if a small company like mine doing IT support is already utilizing these things you best believe F1 teams will be.
Does make me wonder if it means at some point the cars themselves will become almost spec because everyone gets to the same conclusions a lot faster? Making things like engine development of the focus on the driver far more prominent.
Or if it will separate the exceptional designers from the just good ones because they can see something the AI/mathematics cannot?
Gary Anderson and Rob Smedley both made a similar point on recent podcasts- The teams are so big now and the many engineers naturally tend to specialise in tiny details in small areas of the car. The teams are presumably organised in a hierarchical structure with a technical leader and a committee of department leads underneath. It is hard to imagine an aerodynamics dept lead announcing that they car 'going to do a bit of suspension this year'. I don't think we have yet seen a modern F1 team produce a Newey. Designers like him, who cut their teeth in an era when the designer basically had to design the whole car, are a dying breed.
I am sure the other teams have cottoned on to the benefit of having a group of people under technical leadership, a degree separated from all departments, ensuring that the initial vision for the way the car works is carried through and that everybody is aligned. There will be people whose names we don't necessarily know doing that role.
30/35 years ago, F1 car design was a three piece band. Nowadays it's a massive orchestra. There's a conductor, but there's no 'front man'.
I am sure the other teams have cottoned on to the benefit of having a group of people under technical leadership, a degree separated from all departments, ensuring that the initial vision for the way the car works is carried through and that everybody is aligned. There will be people whose names we don't necessarily know doing that role.
30/35 years ago, F1 car design was a three piece band. Nowadays it's a massive orchestra. There's a conductor, but there's no 'front man'.
Edited by Hustle_ on Wednesday 7th February 17:52
When I worked at RBR about 10 years ago, I visited Newey's office. He was still drawing cars on paper and the design team had to translate that to computer. Very much subordinates. I'm guessing he still works this way and wouldn't be at all surprised if he is the true brains behind every design even today.
Sometimes true genius comes from a mind that no-one else can completely comprehend and no group of people can match.
Sometimes true genius comes from a mind that no-one else can completely comprehend and no group of people can match.
mattikake said:
When I worked at RBR about 10 years ago, I visited Newey's office. He was still drawing cars on paper and the design team had to translate that to computer. Very much subordinates. I'm guessing he still works this way and wouldn't be at all surprised if he is the true brains behind every design even today.
Sometimes true genius comes from a mind that no-one else can completely comprehend and no group of people can match.
I think that it is better to think of Newey as an inspired team leader.Sometimes true genius comes from a mind that no-one else can completely comprehend and no group of people can match.
In terms of being a car’s designer, he must be something of a square cog in a very smooth running machine. Prioritising developments, and inspiring innovation may be his greatest attributes.
By drawing on paper in 2024, he is something of a Dinosaur .
I think Newey has an interesting blend of being fundamentally a very good aerodynamicist who was also a very successful race engineer - he innately gets the full dynamic picture conceptually but also in reality.
I think his genius though, is in his ability to spot the flaw in the the rule book.
..of and he's innately super competitive.
He very much took on the mantle from Chapman (and has now eclipsed him).
I think his genius though, is in his ability to spot the flaw in the the rule book.
..of and he's innately super competitive.
He very much took on the mantle from Chapman (and has now eclipsed him).
Muzzer79 said:
This.
Newey is from an era where F1 teams were small and one guy designed pretty much the whole car.
That doesn't happen anymore, someone like Newey leads the direction of the car and identifies talent.
Now, that doesn't mean that he isn't the asset he once was, but a design being attributed to one person like that is likely a history thing.
I don't think Newey has ever been responsible for doing detailed design work on a whole car. Having read his autobiography and various other things about him, unless I'm mistaken he's only ever been involved with detailed work on aero design. Never with anything like the monocoque, suspension components, engine, gearbox etc.Newey is from an era where F1 teams were small and one guy designed pretty much the whole car.
That doesn't happen anymore, someone like Newey leads the direction of the car and identifies talent.
Now, that doesn't mean that he isn't the asset he once was, but a design being attributed to one person like that is likely a history thing.
The aerodynamics are now so important to the overall performance of the cars that many of the other aspects of the cars design are dictated by and compromised to be able work with the aero concept, so in that sense you can describe a car as being a 'Newey design'.
The days of 1 man being responsible for the detailed design of the chassis, suspension, bodywork, gearbox etc. to the point of almost designing a complete car ended in 70's.
Slyjoe said:
We must have crossed paths in the past, I've been at it for more than 20 years, with Reynard, Arrows, Renault, Lotus, Mercedes and Alpine, but I can't quite put my finger on who you are (Did we sit next to each other at Alpine for a couple of days recently? You -Big Toyota truck and I've got an Alpine)
To add to the list, I think John Owen was quite astute and James Allison was skilled in bringing a good team around him. Gary Anderson (I think) smelled of booze all the time.
Aldo was a lovely gentleman, but as others have already said, the design process isn't down to one character anymore. It's designed by a committee with a guiding hand. The stronger that guiding hand, the better.
You're correct, Alpine, briefly last year, was a pleasure chatting with you (Did we sit next to each other at Alpine for a couple of days recently? You -Big Toyota truck and I've got an Alpine)To add to the list, I think John Owen was quite astute and James Allison was skilled in bringing a good team around him. Gary Anderson (I think) smelled of booze all the time.
Aldo was a lovely gentleman, but as others have already said, the design process isn't down to one character anymore. It's designed by a committee with a guiding hand. The stronger that guiding hand, the better.
22yrs or 403 races and counting in F1 design, started
in V10 era at Benetton, British American Racing, Honda, through V8 era at Honda, Ferrari, then V6 Hybrid era at Ferrari, Honda again and Alpine. Now working towards new V6 hybrid era
Also, another 10yrs super cars/motorsport design/engineering in F3, Indy, GT1, Formula E and F1 inshore powerboats
Easily learnt most about good F1 car design when responsible for competitor design analysis for 1.5yrs, ie reviewing spy photos and frequent pizza/beer evenings with Rory Byrne in Maranello
Been very lucky, designed in all on car/off car F1 design areas. Working in or with all design/engineering groups along side 100's of great designers from interns to most experienced and the best in F1
Sadly for 99% of today's F1 designers, they'll never experience the breadth of car design I've enjoyed. Each F1 team only has a handful of generalist designers, they're a dying breed, so hard for me to imagine another Newey is out there waiting to be discovered.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff