Porsche GT Nurburgring Times --- drivers and tyres!
Discussion
Porsche announced today the 718 GT4 RS has set an official lap time around the Nürburgring Nordschleife of 7:09.3 at the hands of development driver Jörg Bergmeister. Onboard video of the lap can be seen above. The only modification, Porsche says, was a racing bucket installed for the driver's safety. The lap was set on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R tires, which will be available to customers as an option once the car goes on sale.
That 7:09.3 time was set using the modernized method for recording laps, which includes the straightaway at the beginning of turn 13. If Porsche were going by the old method of recording 'Ring laps, which removes that straightaway, the GT4 RS set a lap time of 7:04.5. That's 23.6 seconds quicker than the normal 718 GT4 and less than 10 seconds slower than the mighty 918 Spyder.
The above was reported by Road and Track ...
So does the MR note on the GT4RS above need removing ? I guess it does ...
And I'm guessing also that the 718GT4 was not on 2R's ?? 7.28:1 ??
But this makes the 911.1 GT3RS look suspiciously slow ? 7:20 is the figure from a 2015 car on Fastest Laps ... which must have been Cup 2's ...
That 7:09.3 time was set using the modernized method for recording laps, which includes the straightaway at the beginning of turn 13. If Porsche were going by the old method of recording 'Ring laps, which removes that straightaway, the GT4 RS set a lap time of 7:04.5. That's 23.6 seconds quicker than the normal 718 GT4 and less than 10 seconds slower than the mighty 918 Spyder.
The above was reported by Road and Track ...
So does the MR note on the GT4RS above need removing ? I guess it does ...
And I'm guessing also that the 718GT4 was not on 2R's ?? 7.28:1 ??
But this makes the 911.1 GT3RS look suspiciously slow ? 7:20 is the figure from a 2015 car on Fastest Laps ... which must have been Cup 2's ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 14th January 10:21
TDT said:
Interesting thing to throw in… 981 GT4 MR did 7m29
So taking that same improvement and applying it conservatively to 718 GT4 - say 10secs,(not factoring circuit improvements) puts the 718 GT4 MR at 7m18 on Cup2 N1?
No official time was ever announced/published for 718 GT4 MR.
Impossible to say I'd have thought. Perhaps a big chunk of the gains of the 981 to 718 standard car were already realised in the 981 MR from setup/suspension improvements. The 718 MR gains might be more marginal over the 981 MR as it would be mainly engine/circuit changes with little to gain on setup/damping.So taking that same improvement and applying it conservatively to 718 GT4 - say 10secs,(not factoring circuit improvements) puts the 718 GT4 MR at 7m18 on Cup2 N1?
No official time was ever announced/published for 718 GT4 MR.
isaldiri said:
TDT said:
Interesting thing to throw in… 981 GT4 MR did 7m29
So taking that same improvement and applying it conservatively to 718 GT4 - say 10secs,(not factoring circuit improvements) puts the 718 GT4 MR at 7m18 on Cup2 N1?
No official time was ever announced/published for 718 GT4 MR.
Impossible to say I'd have thought. Perhaps a big chunk of the gains of the 981 to 718 standard car were already realised in the 981 MR from setup/suspension improvements. The 718 MR gains might be more marginal over the 981 MR as it would be mainly engine/circuit changes with little to gain on setup/damping.So taking that same improvement and applying it conservatively to 718 GT4 - say 10secs,(not factoring circuit improvements) puts the 718 GT4 MR at 7m18 on Cup2 N1?
No official time was ever announced/published for 718 GT4 MR.
I’m not sure I agree that 981 MR improvements were directly applied in the 718 GT4 as base car.
The time improvement between the 2 base cars comes from engine, aero and tyres.
The 981 MR spanned this gap, and in addition to package the car in the published lap also had some bodyweight lightening, lightweight forged wheels, Trofeo R and upgraded LSD… all of that to get to 7m29 which is still a little behind the bog standard 718 GT4 MR.
It’s reasonable to suggest that the 718 gained more from the kit, which for this car includes more aero parts to make the already improved aero effect (over 981) work better, allowing higher cornering speeds and more stability.
718 GT4 with MR on Cup 2 N1 has higher cornering speeds in the published videos than standard 4RS on Cup 2 R, and the 4RS had Herr Bergmeister at the wheel.
Edited by TDT on Sunday 14th January 19:40
thegreenhell said:
It would be interesting to see what the older cars such as 996 and 997 could do on the current surface with the latest Cup 2 tyres.
Yes really there need to be a super test with same tyre, driver, day, conditions, or some super algorithm to apply a correction factor.It would be really interesting though, as we see some older gen cars on up to date rubber going very well these days.
Both Evo magazine and Fastestlaps.com list the 7:42 time for the 997.1 as being for the RS. Evo also quotes the RS as being 3 seconds faster than the non-RS, but I can't see any other sources for the non-RS time. The wikipedia page is ambiguous as the spec description could apply to either.
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/6461/porsche-911
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/6461/porsche-911
TDT said:
I’m not sure I agree that 981 MR improvements were directly applied in the 718 GT4 as base car.
The time improvement between the 2 base cars comes from engine, aero and tyres.
The 981 MR spanned this gap, and in addition to package the car in the published lap also had some bodyweight lightening, lightweight forged wheels, Trofeo R and upgraded LSD… all of that to get to 7m29 which is still a little behind the bog standard 718 GT4 MR.
It’s reasonable to suggest that the 718 gained more from the kit, which for this car includes more aero parts to make the already improved aero effect (over 981) work better, allowing higher cornering speeds and more stability.
718 GT4 with MR on Cup 2 N1 has higher cornering speeds in the published videos than standard 4RS on Cup 2 R, and the 4RS had Herr Bergmeister at the wheel.
I didn't say the 981 MR improvements were applied to the base 718 gt4. I meant that there was possibly less to gain for the 718 MR over the 981 MR than the 718 gt4 base car over the 981 because there would be little if any setup related gains to be eked out. The time improvement between the 2 base cars comes from engine, aero and tyres.
The 981 MR spanned this gap, and in addition to package the car in the published lap also had some bodyweight lightening, lightweight forged wheels, Trofeo R and upgraded LSD… all of that to get to 7m29 which is still a little behind the bog standard 718 GT4 MR.
It’s reasonable to suggest that the 718 gained more from the kit, which for this car includes more aero parts to make the already improved aero effect (over 981) work better, allowing higher cornering speeds and more stability.
718 GT4 with MR on Cup 2 N1 has higher cornering speeds in the published videos than standard 4RS on Cup 2 R, and the 4RS had Herr Bergmeister at the wheel.
Every gen of gt car has had damping tweaks for the new car over the old that has worked (sometimes considerably) better. The 991.2 gt3 for example i think is considerably better damped than the 991.1. It would not be a surprise if the 718 has had at least some of that improvement over the 981 in the same way.
thegreenhell said:
Both Evo magazine and Fastestlaps.com list the 7:42 time for the 997.1 as being for the RS. Evo also quotes the RS as being 3 seconds faster than the non-RS, but I can't see any other sources for the non-RS time. The wikipedia page is ambiguous as the spec description could apply to either.
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/6461/porsche-911
It was the sportauto superlap time that was the same I believe with von Saurma. 'Official' PAG literature claimed the 3s faster.https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/6461/porsche-911
Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 14th January 20:09
And then we try to factor in improvements in the track surface .... 
All very interesting and I'll update the list .... I may take out the interlopers that were there for context, they of course will stay above.
A question for T ... do you think that the MR aero benefits of the 718 would be greater than those on a 981 .... and apart from the capacity difference of a 718 over a 981 (5%), what might be the effect of engine / transmission tuning on a fast circuit such as this ?
And finally, why does the 991.1 GT3RS appear to be so much slower than the 991.2 which increased downforce by 8% and power by 4% ?? Cup 2R's and a better track surface ? Or braver drivers ??
Too many question which though interesting, we may not be able to answer.
Interesting also that the increased aero on the 992GT3RS on this very fast circuit gains a little more in the corners than it loses in the straights ... around ? seconds more ?
All very interesting and I'll update the list .... I may take out the interlopers that were there for context, they of course will stay above.
A question for T ... do you think that the MR aero benefits of the 718 would be greater than those on a 981 .... and apart from the capacity difference of a 718 over a 981 (5%), what might be the effect of engine / transmission tuning on a fast circuit such as this ?
And finally, why does the 991.1 GT3RS appear to be so much slower than the 991.2 which increased downforce by 8% and power by 4% ?? Cup 2R's and a better track surface ? Or braver drivers ??
Too many question which though interesting, we may not be able to answer.
Interesting also that the increased aero on the 992GT3RS on this very fast circuit gains a little more in the corners than it loses in the straights ... around ? seconds more ?
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