Speeding without valid license - any experience?
Discussion
My friend in CH has now been in country over a year, failed her first test for license transfer (non eu national) and is taking further lessons ahead of the second.
Last night she knowingly drove her car under the above circumstances and got flashed by a static camera.
She is now expecting the worst case - hefty fine, jail time, etc.
Just wondering if any on here can answer some basic questions for me, it’s seems unclear from looking online.
- when the fine is issued, would this include an automatic pre check of the vehicle owners’ license validity, or is it more like uk NIP where they first ask who is driving?
- on paying the fine, is any check for license validity then performed?
- it seems from a google that the speeding is a police matter obviously but the license a civil administration one, would these be dealt with separately?
- are there any firm sentencing guidelines? Fine amount, jail time etc? It’s Vaud if that makes any difference.
- if jail is avoided, will there be any impact on her residency renewal (b permit, due for renewal in 18mths).
she does not intend to have someone take the fine on her behalf, she will take the punishment. only loss of residency in any outcome will mean returning to her country of origin, the thought of which is causing the most stress. she’s prepared for and will accept any consequences other than that.
hence 2 lines of enquiry - immediate punitive consequences and then the knock on effect in 18mths if the former is survivable.
who/where would be the best person/body to speak to for advice?
Last night she knowingly drove her car under the above circumstances and got flashed by a static camera.
She is now expecting the worst case - hefty fine, jail time, etc.
Just wondering if any on here can answer some basic questions for me, it’s seems unclear from looking online.
- when the fine is issued, would this include an automatic pre check of the vehicle owners’ license validity, or is it more like uk NIP where they first ask who is driving?
- on paying the fine, is any check for license validity then performed?
- it seems from a google that the speeding is a police matter obviously but the license a civil administration one, would these be dealt with separately?
- are there any firm sentencing guidelines? Fine amount, jail time etc? It’s Vaud if that makes any difference.
- if jail is avoided, will there be any impact on her residency renewal (b permit, due for renewal in 18mths).
she does not intend to have someone take the fine on her behalf, she will take the punishment. only loss of residency in any outcome will mean returning to her country of origin, the thought of which is causing the most stress. she’s prepared for and will accept any consequences other than that.
hence 2 lines of enquiry - immediate punitive consequences and then the knock on effect in 18mths if the former is survivable.
who/where would be the best person/body to speak to for advice?
First step - is this "driving a without a licence" or is this "learner driver without proper supervision, L-plates or whatever"?
Former - likely big trouble.
Latter - with a bit of luck no-one will check the detailed facts if there's an immediate acceptance of guilt and a normal penalty will be applied to the provisional licence.
She may need to get legal advice in Switzerland if and when NIP is received, depending on what it says. Can't make any recommendations but every town must have lawyers who can deal with this.
Old PH thread here, although not directly relevant to these unusual circumstances,
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Former - likely big trouble.
Latter - with a bit of luck no-one will check the detailed facts if there's an immediate acceptance of guilt and a normal penalty will be applied to the provisional licence.
She may need to get legal advice in Switzerland if and when NIP is received, depending on what it says. Can't make any recommendations but every town must have lawyers who can deal with this.
Old PH thread here, although not directly relevant to these unusual circumstances,
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
This is a pretty niche case - you really need legal advice asap.
Yes they check your license details when speeding.
But if they already have a full Swiss driving license, I really doubt this is a huge crime.
After all, an EU license is perfectly valid in the UK, and it's pretty much interchangable with a Swiss one AFAIK.
Yes they check your license details when speeding.
But if they already have a full Swiss driving license, I really doubt this is a huge crime.
After all, an EU license is perfectly valid in the UK, and it's pretty much interchangable with a Swiss one AFAIK.
She’s an Indian national with a full license issued in UAE which has validity until 2026.
She moved (company transfer to HQ) to CH in 2022, leases the car which is fully insured. For various reasons (mainly language and work travel) left it til the 11th hour to begin lessons for converting to a Swiss license and failed the first attempt (you get 12mths grace, first attempt is a practical assessment only, in French, and if that is failed you have to do a written test in addition to the practical).
She says she wasn’t given written notice that she could no longer legally drive, but is now checking the documentation she was given as to what it says. There really is no excusable reason as to why she elected to drive last night given these circumstances, which she fully accepts (she hasn’t driven to my knowledge in the period at which her exemption expired until last night).
The camera is on an urban road which has a 50Kph speed limit until 10pm after which it drops to 30. She believes she was doing an indicated 60.
She isn’t looking for a loophole and accepts this may well result in a court appearance and a hefty fine, a ban, plus complications with subsequent licensing and insurance. The concern is over whether any judgement will impact on her job (I.e jail time) and subsequent ability to renew residency.
Agree that proper legal advice needs to be taken, she’s already emailed a legal firm with a view to meeting with them early next week. Seems there are similar tales on the expat forums but none which reflect this scenario, and the results vary from a hearing with a sympathetic judge (medium fine and a slap on the wrist) to €18k fines and deportation.
I guess it’s a wait and see scenario at the moment. I’ll update where I can and would appreciate and assistance from those with experience, legal or otherwise. Cheers.
She moved (company transfer to HQ) to CH in 2022, leases the car which is fully insured. For various reasons (mainly language and work travel) left it til the 11th hour to begin lessons for converting to a Swiss license and failed the first attempt (you get 12mths grace, first attempt is a practical assessment only, in French, and if that is failed you have to do a written test in addition to the practical).
She says she wasn’t given written notice that she could no longer legally drive, but is now checking the documentation she was given as to what it says. There really is no excusable reason as to why she elected to drive last night given these circumstances, which she fully accepts (she hasn’t driven to my knowledge in the period at which her exemption expired until last night).
The camera is on an urban road which has a 50Kph speed limit until 10pm after which it drops to 30. She believes she was doing an indicated 60.
She isn’t looking for a loophole and accepts this may well result in a court appearance and a hefty fine, a ban, plus complications with subsequent licensing and insurance. The concern is over whether any judgement will impact on her job (I.e jail time) and subsequent ability to renew residency.
Agree that proper legal advice needs to be taken, she’s already emailed a legal firm with a view to meeting with them early next week. Seems there are similar tales on the expat forums but none which reflect this scenario, and the results vary from a hearing with a sympathetic judge (medium fine and a slap on the wrist) to €18k fines and deportation.
I guess it’s a wait and see scenario at the moment. I’ll update where I can and would appreciate and assistance from those with experience, legal or otherwise. Cheers.
Edited by shirt on Saturday 2nd December 16:12
You (she!) may be lucky- I would expect that the whole speed camera/fining process would be automatic (especially for minor infractions). So Car with license plate VD 123456 was speeding- fine sent to registered owner of the car- which is not necessarily the driver. All they seem to care about is revenue generation. Fine issued, fine paid- all good. No need to name the driver, there are no points like in the UK
If your friend's car is insured properly (would usually allow ANY driver to be insured to drive it), there may well not be any issue.
If your friend's car is insured properly (would usually allow ANY driver to be insured to drive it), there may well not be any issue.
See above. If the speed was within the minor limits then this is most likely.
She will just have to wait until she receives the fine (or summons) in the post. However, she needs to stop driving right now until she gets answers as to whether she can continue driving.
I think her biggest problem is actually the speed she was doing in a 30 zone. If she was really doing 60 then that's twice the speed limit and that's a major infraction. That would trigger a bunch of follow up administration that would undoubtedly lead to the discovery of her non-licenced state.
Fingers crossed for her but really, she's been here a year. You know enough about the place after a year not to mess with this administrative aspect of Swiss life.
ETA: short answers to you questions. No, No, Yes, No, Yes
She will just have to wait until she receives the fine (or summons) in the post. However, she needs to stop driving right now until she gets answers as to whether she can continue driving.
I think her biggest problem is actually the speed she was doing in a 30 zone. If she was really doing 60 then that's twice the speed limit and that's a major infraction. That would trigger a bunch of follow up administration that would undoubtedly lead to the discovery of her non-licenced state.
Fingers crossed for her but really, she's been here a year. You know enough about the place after a year not to mess with this administrative aspect of Swiss life.
ETA: short answers to you questions. No, No, Yes, No, Yes
Edited by Das Baron on Wednesday 24th January 12:39
Edited by Das Baron on Wednesday 24th January 12:42
Well nothing has come through as yet.
Appears the camera was a temporary one and may have been on a stretch that has a permanent 50 limit. Makes no difference to guilt but just from the location and date of the offence the lawyer guessed who she works for and why the camera was there (major corporate, annual Xmas event).
She stopped driving which isn’t easy given she has only recently moved to a more rural location. I advised she should book more lessons to at least show willingness to comply but she doesn’t want to do so until this is settled.
She’s instructed a lawyer but the advice so far is wait it out. Seems there is no time limit for prosecution in CH but nearly 2 months since the event I’d have thought she’s in the clear?
ETA: this is her second stint in CH so yes should be fully aware of the rules. I usually do the driving when I visit and her backseat driving is often the cause of much bickering. There is much irony but given the potential consequences (to her for fine/visa renewal and to me for voicing it) I’ve kept schtum.
Appears the camera was a temporary one and may have been on a stretch that has a permanent 50 limit. Makes no difference to guilt but just from the location and date of the offence the lawyer guessed who she works for and why the camera was there (major corporate, annual Xmas event).
She stopped driving which isn’t easy given she has only recently moved to a more rural location. I advised she should book more lessons to at least show willingness to comply but she doesn’t want to do so until this is settled.
She’s instructed a lawyer but the advice so far is wait it out. Seems there is no time limit for prosecution in CH but nearly 2 months since the event I’d have thought she’s in the clear?
ETA: this is her second stint in CH so yes should be fully aware of the rules. I usually do the driving when I visit and her backseat driving is often the cause of much bickering. There is much irony but given the potential consequences (to her for fine/visa renewal and to me for voicing it) I’ve kept schtum.
Edited by shirt on Wednesday 24th January 14:59
You may not know, but the regulation how the radar/speeding camera is setup has changed a few years ago. In the past you were always fined if it flashed from the radar camera. But nowadays, it flashes if you exceed the speed limit but may not get a fine. In CH we have something that is called "safety margin". This varies depending on speed and type of measurement. For instance if you are measured by Laser the margin is only 3km/h up to 100km/h. The entire list is here : https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2008/352/de#art...
In other words, you may drive drive 53 km/h in 50 zone, it will flash but you won't get fined.(in the past it would flash at 54).
The best you can do in this case (as you/she probably did) is to wait for the fine to fly in and then possibly take legal action. If she did not get anything within 2 months, she is on the "save" side. However, I would really recommend to her getting some driving lessons. If she had a foreign driving license and was daily driving, she should easily pass. If not, she is really not up to the task and a danger for everyone.
In other words, you may drive drive 53 km/h in 50 zone, it will flash but you won't get fined.(in the past it would flash at 54).
The best you can do in this case (as you/she probably did) is to wait for the fine to fly in and then possibly take legal action. If she did not get anything within 2 months, she is on the "save" side. However, I would really recommend to her getting some driving lessons. If she had a foreign driving license and was daily driving, she should easily pass. If not, she is really not up to the task and a danger for everyone.
crypto said:
nowadays, it flashes if you exceed the speed limit but may not get a fine. In CH we have something that is called "safety margin". In other words, you may drive drive 53 km/h in 50 zone, it will flash but you won't get fined.
Cunning bit of enforcement. Discourages people from driving just over the limit and thinking "I know I'm OK because the camera didn't flash". I'd be uncomfortable constantly wondering whether the flash was "ticket or no ticket?".
k up again.Fwiw she failed her Swiss test for not joining the highway from a slip road at the correct point. This was amusing for me personally as she is a terrible backseat driver and always had a moan when I blended at the correct point. Obviously when she realized she was in the wrong there was no apology whatsoever.
Anyhow, now at 7mths on we can assume there will be no further action. She hasn’t driven in CH since and is actually now questioning whether she needs to keep a car there.
Anyhow, now at 7mths on we can assume there will be no further action. She hasn’t driven in CH since and is actually now questioning whether she needs to keep a car there.
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