Discussion
Has anyone done the switch from an E46? I’ve had mine for 4 years now, and whilst I really like it, I keep getting the feeling I should have the V8 in my life before they are taxed off the road.
The benefit would also be that I could use it year round as a daily rather than the E46 which is only used in summer when the salt has gone.
Keen to get people’s thoughts. The worst thing would be to switch and regret as I’ve put so much effort into getting the E46 in its current condition.
The benefit would also be that I could use it year round as a daily rather than the E46 which is only used in summer when the salt has gone.
Keen to get people’s thoughts. The worst thing would be to switch and regret as I’ve put so much effort into getting the E46 in its current condition.
Currently running my E92 as a daily, only had 3 months . It feels much more modern than I expected , apart from struggling to sync my phone , otherwise it’s very refined day to day . So in comparison to E46’s I’ve had much easier to live with, but was many years ago so memory not clear!
My only gripe is that it takes some time, at this time of year, for oil temps to reach 90+c, which is only time I get to properly experience the V8. So if youhave short commute day to day, E92 not for you IMO.
Best of luck with V8 switch.
My only gripe is that it takes some time, at this time of year, for oil temps to reach 90+c, which is only time I get to properly experience the V8. So if youhave short commute day to day, E92 not for you IMO.
Best of luck with V8 switch.
I had an E46 M3 for 3 years, then owned something else for 3 years and then added an E90 M3, which I still have nearly 15 years later!
The E90 is more grown-up and has a better ride than the E46. The rear doesn't pogo over bumps like the E46 would sometimes do.
The E46 is naughtier, the E90 is faster. Both engines are superb.
The V8 is fairly muted at low revs but gets fairly vocal at the top end and the car properly goes. But on balance, I'd say the E46 has the better sounding engine/exhaust combination as standard.
However, the E90 is an excellent all round proposition if you can live with the fuel economy and the annual tax. I'm keeping mine for the foreseeable.
The E90 is more grown-up and has a better ride than the E46. The rear doesn't pogo over bumps like the E46 would sometimes do.
The E46 is naughtier, the E90 is faster. Both engines are superb.
The V8 is fairly muted at low revs but gets fairly vocal at the top end and the car properly goes. But on balance, I'd say the E46 has the better sounding engine/exhaust combination as standard.
However, the E90 is an excellent all round proposition if you can live with the fuel economy and the annual tax. I'm keeping mine for the foreseeable.
The good news is there are plenty of good E9X M3 about at the moment. The bad news is that the same isn’t true of E46 M3s, so if you do want to go back you could be searching for a while.
The engine in the E92 is a masterpiece and I love the looks of the E92, but for me it felt pretty numb at everyday speeds. Even though it has more torque than E46, it comes in higher up the rev range which I found frustrating while waiting for the oil to warm up.
The DCT is very good but I missed having a manual change. Test drove the manual when I was looking and it was frustratingly high geared - think flat out in 3rd was over 100mph.
Other frustrations for me were the seats sit very high, always felt I was sitting on the car rather than in it.
That said, I did enjoy owning one and it was pretty practical - did a couple of family holidays in mine. Roof bars mean taking bikes or a roof box with you is an option. Mine did around 16mpg in my ownership, but was never driven with economy in mind.
The engine in the E92 is a masterpiece and I love the looks of the E92, but for me it felt pretty numb at everyday speeds. Even though it has more torque than E46, it comes in higher up the rev range which I found frustrating while waiting for the oil to warm up.
The DCT is very good but I missed having a manual change. Test drove the manual when I was looking and it was frustratingly high geared - think flat out in 3rd was over 100mph.
Other frustrations for me were the seats sit very high, always felt I was sitting on the car rather than in it.
That said, I did enjoy owning one and it was pretty practical - did a couple of family holidays in mine. Roof bars mean taking bikes or a roof box with you is an option. Mine did around 16mpg in my ownership, but was never driven with economy in mind.
Edited by survivalist on Monday 27th November 19:41
Keep the E46, get a 120D for the daily.
Best thing I ever did was take the E46 out of daily duties and keep it nice for summer and shows.
Tried the V8, cracking car and engine, but glad I decided not to switch.
As someone said here supply of good E46s is reducing, that may well happen with the E90 but not yet…. However:
Quick search on autotrader, for M3, coupe, max engine size 3.5, manual, under 100K miles, non Cat damaged. =17 cars
Did exact same but filtered for 4.0 and result =15 cars… of which 8 are black! Switched filter to auto box.. =89 cars.
So not much in it for manual gearbox supply, obviously there are way more dct E90s made than manuals, so depends what your comparing, or desire.
Seems a manual M3 is becoming a rare thing.
Best thing I ever did was take the E46 out of daily duties and keep it nice for summer and shows.
Tried the V8, cracking car and engine, but glad I decided not to switch.
As someone said here supply of good E46s is reducing, that may well happen with the E90 but not yet…. However:
Quick search on autotrader, for M3, coupe, max engine size 3.5, manual, under 100K miles, non Cat damaged. =17 cars
Did exact same but filtered for 4.0 and result =15 cars… of which 8 are black! Switched filter to auto box.. =89 cars.
So not much in it for manual gearbox supply, obviously there are way more dct E90s made than manuals, so depends what your comparing, or desire.
Seems a manual M3 is becoming a rare thing.
I replaced my E46 M3 with a brand new E92 M3 back in 2013.
I loved both of them but I've recently found myself setting up a search on Autotrader for an M3..... and it's the E46.
As always with these things it's a matter of the heart so I'm not for a second trying to argue it's the better car. For me, it's the looks! To my eyes the E46 M3 is one of the most perfectly proportioned cars ever made. I borrowed the chassis number from a friend and acquired some brand new CSL wheels which finished it off perfectly in my view.
Personally, I think it's ageing beautifully and I fancy another one
I loved both of them but I've recently found myself setting up a search on Autotrader for an M3..... and it's the E46.
As always with these things it's a matter of the heart so I'm not for a second trying to argue it's the better car. For me, it's the looks! To my eyes the E46 M3 is one of the most perfectly proportioned cars ever made. I borrowed the chassis number from a friend and acquired some brand new CSL wheels which finished it off perfectly in my view.
Personally, I think it's ageing beautifully and I fancy another one
We often hear that the later cars are less exciting than the model they replace but 90% of the time it's because we are used to the previous model and their sweet spots. When making the jump and acclimatising you see perhaps that they aren't so different, you just have to go in a little harder than before.
I personally think the E92 M3 is the better of the two, the s65 is lovely but it's more muted as standard. An M3 isn't a simple sports car it's meant to do a bit of everything and the 92 particularly with dct does everything a little better.
All that said I think you should keep your E46 M3 because now it's going to be difficult to replace it, and better isn't always better.
I went e46-e92-F80, for me the competition e92 with DCT is the pick of the bunch, the most biddable, best sounding and most resolved of all 3.
e46 is quite raw and can be snappy plus the exhaust rasp isn't for everyone and lets not forget its love of kangarooing when in sports mode for the throttle (which is very annoying)
Early manual e92s have a big flat spot mid range and the gearbox belongs in a 320d not an M car the two things really spoil the early cars, the later DCT competition cars are transformed, the engine is wonderful to listen to at any revs from a low rev burble through to roaring induction all the way to mechanical thrash as you get to the redline it has crazy long legs matched to the DCT and the revised TC control even the ham fisted can have the car at a jaunty angle pulling out from a side road the car is so well balanced.
The F80 is more of a e46 in nature, hard edged and quick to want to wag its tail and catch the unwary out, feels hunkered down but ready to let go at the same time, sounds awful but in a race car kind of way (like it needs to not that it wants to) power delivery of the non comp cars is quite diesel like and you find yourself short shifting at 5.5k rather than chasing the red line, faster everywhere than the e46 and e92 but somehow you don't care...e92 comp every time.
Wills2 said:
I went e46-e92-F80, for me the competition e92 with DCT is the pick of the bunch, the most biddable, best sounding and most resolved of all 3.
e46 is quite raw and can be snappy plus the exhaust rasp isn't for everyone and lets not forget its love of kangarooing when in sports mode for the throttle (which is very annoying)
Early manual e92s have a big flat spot mid range and the gearbox belongs in a 320d not an M car the two things really spoil the early cars, the later DCT competition cars are transformed, the engine is wonderful to listen to at any revs from a low rev burble through to roaring induction all the way to mechanical thrash as you get to the redline it has crazy long legs matched to the DCT and the revised TC control even the ham fisted can have the car at a jaunty angle pulling out from a side road the car is so well balanced.
The F80 is more of a e46 in nature, hard edged and quick to want to wag its tail and catch the unwary out, feels hunkered down but ready to let go at the same time, sounds awful but in a race car kind of way (like it needs to not that it wants to) power delivery of the non comp cars is quite diesel like and you find yourself short shifting at 5.5k rather than chasing the red line, faster everywhere than the e46 and e92 but somehow you don't care...e92 comp every time.
I am missing my E92 M3 Competition very much - individual Ruby Black and individual extended leather, with the 2 pipe mod and DCT was a fantastic combination, and the best sounding car I have owned. The only V8 M3 and one that I think has aged extremely well, and modern enough to use as a daily, without any of the E46 weaknesses (rust, rear subframe, etc)e46 is quite raw and can be snappy plus the exhaust rasp isn't for everyone and lets not forget its love of kangarooing when in sports mode for the throttle (which is very annoying)
Early manual e92s have a big flat spot mid range and the gearbox belongs in a 320d not an M car the two things really spoil the early cars, the later DCT competition cars are transformed, the engine is wonderful to listen to at any revs from a low rev burble through to roaring induction all the way to mechanical thrash as you get to the redline it has crazy long legs matched to the DCT and the revised TC control even the ham fisted can have the car at a jaunty angle pulling out from a side road the car is so well balanced.
The F80 is more of a e46 in nature, hard edged and quick to want to wag its tail and catch the unwary out, feels hunkered down but ready to let go at the same time, sounds awful but in a race car kind of way (like it needs to not that it wants to) power delivery of the non comp cars is quite diesel like and you find yourself short shifting at 5.5k rather than chasing the red line, faster everywhere than the e46 and e92 but somehow you don't care...e92 comp every time.
rassi said:
I am missing my E92 M3 Competition very much - individual Ruby Black and individual extended leather, with the 2 pipe mod and DCT was a fantastic combination, and the best sounding car I have owned. The only V8 M3 and one that I think has aged extremely well, and modern enough to use as a daily, without any of the E46 weaknesses (rust, rear subframe, etc)
Yep I really miss my frozen silver edition comp, it was utterly fabulous in everyway for me, I put a Tubi style exhaust on it, hell fire it was loud! However the standard exhaust I still maintain had the best sound and tone as you heard the engine more but the Tubi was biblical. Got my E92 comp three months ago. My core requirement was carbon plenum settup. Mine has Eventuri, plus intake . Mod box 2, which I might go quieter to hear intake noise . Plus the GTS DCT map which is great.
The noise is epic, car drives very well and good in traffic . I have two other V8’s on drive so feel I’m well placed to compare .
The noise is epic, car drives very well and good in traffic . I have two other V8’s on drive so feel I’m well placed to compare .
Wills2 said:
I went e46-e92-F80, for me the competition e92 with DCT is the pick of the bunch, the most biddable, best sounding and most resolved of all 3.
e46 is quite raw and can be snappy plus the exhaust rasp isn't for everyone and lets not forget its love of kangarooing when in sports mode for the throttle (which is very annoying)
Early manual e92s have a big flat spot mid range and the gearbox belongs in a 320d not an M car the two things really spoil the early cars, the later DCT competition cars are transformed, the engine is wonderful to listen to at any revs from a low rev burble through to roaring induction all the way to mechanical thrash as you get to the redline it has crazy long legs matched to the DCT and the revised TC control even the ham fisted can have the car at a jaunty angle pulling out from a side road the car is so well balanced.
The F80 is more of a e46 in nature, hard edged and quick to want to wag its tail and catch the unwary out, feels hunkered down but ready to let go at the same time, sounds awful but in a race car kind of way (like it needs to not that it wants to) power delivery of the non comp cars is quite diesel like and you find yourself short shifting at 5.5k rather than chasing the red line, faster everywhere than the e46 and e92 but somehow you don't care...e92 comp every time.
I don't miss my E92 Competition Pack, at all....(1 of 24 manuals in the UK, blah blah...!)e46 is quite raw and can be snappy plus the exhaust rasp isn't for everyone and lets not forget its love of kangarooing when in sports mode for the throttle (which is very annoying)
Early manual e92s have a big flat spot mid range and the gearbox belongs in a 320d not an M car the two things really spoil the early cars, the later DCT competition cars are transformed, the engine is wonderful to listen to at any revs from a low rev burble through to roaring induction all the way to mechanical thrash as you get to the redline it has crazy long legs matched to the DCT and the revised TC control even the ham fisted can have the car at a jaunty angle pulling out from a side road the car is so well balanced.
The F80 is more of a e46 in nature, hard edged and quick to want to wag its tail and catch the unwary out, feels hunkered down but ready to let go at the same time, sounds awful but in a race car kind of way (like it needs to not that it wants to) power delivery of the non comp cars is quite diesel like and you find yourself short shifting at 5.5k rather than chasing the red line, faster everywhere than the e46 and e92 but somehow you don't care...e92 comp every time.
Because I still have it!
It followed 1 E92 M3 and 2 E46 M3s.
Both E92s made the E46s feel relatively noisy and uncomfortable, especially in terms of ride quality. The E92s have much better handling, thanks to less understeer, especially with the Competition Pack. I could bore on for many pages about this, but suffice to say, I did love my E46s, but had no regrets about moving on to the E92s. Apart from fuel consumption.
My first E92 M3 definitely had the flat-spot problem (it was like an early turbo-charged car) but once the ECU software was updated in 2009 the whole experience was different. Fuel consumption got much better after the update too.
Regarding gear-shift quality, I would agree that it is not Honda S2000/Porsche GT car slick, but feel can be significantly improved by swapping in an F10 M5 manual shifter knob (probably the same knob as in the M2).
The engine is indeed sublime - such a perfect combination of light throttle smoothness/refinement with wonderful, unstressed but manic rev-ability all the way from 5 or 6k to the 8400 red-line.
And - heresy, heresy - I actually prefer it to the Flat-6 in my Spyder.
I will not be selling this car, unless someone offers me Sierra RS500 money...!
Edited by Tony B2 on Thursday 7th December 16:25
Tony B2 said:
I don't miss my E92 Competition Pack, at all....(1 of 24 manuals in the UK, blah blah...!)
Because I still have it!
It followed 1 E92 M3 and 2 E46 M3s.
Both E92s made the E46s feel relatively noisy and uncomfortable, especially in terms of ride quality. The E92s have much better handling, thanks to less understeer, especially with the Competition Pack. I could bore on for many pages about this, but suffice to say, I did love my E46s, but had no regrets about moving on to the E92s. Apart from fuel consumption.
My first E92 M3 definitely had the flat-spot problem (it was like an early turbo-charged car) but once the ECU software was updated in 2009 the whole experience was different. Fuel consumption got much better after the update too.
Regarding gear-shift quality, I would agree that it is not Honda S2000/Porsche GT car slick, but feel can be significantly improved by swapping in an F10 M5 manual shifter knob (probably the same knob as in the M2).
The engine is indeed sublime - such a perfect combination of light throttle smoothness/refinement with wonderful, unstressed but manic rev-ability all the way from 5 or 6k to the 8400 red-line.
And - heresy, heresy - I actually prefer it to the Flat-6 in my Spyder.
I will not be selling this car, unless someone offers me Sierra RS500 money...!
Ah memories such a good forum BM3W wasn't it Tony, I preferred the S65 to the 9A1 flat 6 in the 911 as well, I kept hitting the limiter like all the time! Because I still have it!
It followed 1 E92 M3 and 2 E46 M3s.
Both E92s made the E46s feel relatively noisy and uncomfortable, especially in terms of ride quality. The E92s have much better handling, thanks to less understeer, especially with the Competition Pack. I could bore on for many pages about this, but suffice to say, I did love my E46s, but had no regrets about moving on to the E92s. Apart from fuel consumption.
My first E92 M3 definitely had the flat-spot problem (it was like an early turbo-charged car) but once the ECU software was updated in 2009 the whole experience was different. Fuel consumption got much better after the update too.
Regarding gear-shift quality, I would agree that it is not Honda S2000/Porsche GT car slick, but feel can be significantly improved by swapping in an F10 M5 manual shifter knob (probably the same knob as in the M2).
The engine is indeed sublime - such a perfect combination of light throttle smoothness/refinement with wonderful, unstressed but manic rev-ability all the way from 5 or 6k to the 8400 red-line.
And - heresy, heresy - I actually prefer it to the Flat-6 in my Spyder.
I will not be selling this car, unless someone offers me Sierra RS500 money...!
testdrive said:
We often hear that the later cars are less exciting than the model they replace but 90% of the time it's because we are used to the previous model and their sweet spots. When making the jump and acclimatising you see perhaps that they aren't so different, you just have to go in a little harder than before.
I'm in a minority with the fact that I much prefer my F82 M4(DCT) to the E92 M3(manual) that I used to have. I think the M4 is far more exciting to drive for more of the time than the E92 M3 ever was. However I used/use both of them as daily drivers though. I wouldn't want the M4 as a weekend car though(but then I'm fortunate because I have a 370Z Roadster/Caterham 7 for that), whereas I think I would consider an E9x M3 as a weekend car, so I think that is a big complement to the M3 I reckon.
I wouldn't be interested in owning an E46 M3, because the drive I had in one was just so disappointing for me. However I've always loved the way they look, and I also enjoy seeing them occasionally now too(a chap at my youngest daughters school has one).
Having owned an E92 DCT Comp Pack and an early E92 manual, they felt very different in terms of character and performance.
The former was aggressive, stiffer, more firm riding (but not excessively so) louder and more akin to what I thought the M3 experience was going to be. Yes, you could dial things back and use it in a more relaxed manner, but it was one of those cars that you felt was happier when you grabbed it by the scruff, so to speak. It really wanted you to do so.
The manual (a 57 plate) had the original OEM flywheel that the range was launched with. I believe BMW updated it following customer feedback about 12 months later. Mine was so obstructive between 1st > 2nd, and slightly less so between 2nd > 3rd, that it became very wearing to drive in heavy traffic and was actually (incorrectly) diagnosed as faulty by a BMW specialist. Not to mention the effects of the infamous BMW clutch delay valve making the experience even worse!
I would be really intrigued to experience a later, comp pack manual to see whether the typical BMW incremental improvements rectified the issues they themselves acknowledged with the early manuals. That caveat aside, I really do think that despite the romantic association of 'manual + V8' that the engine was born to be mated with the DCT. In my opinion, a manual V8 works better when the lovely N/a throttle response is allied to something with more low-down torque.
As for comparisons with the other gens'...the E46 looks fab but I think the pool of low-owner / well-loved cars is very, very small now. I suspect, especially at current prices, that most would be a labour of love.
I like the look of the F8x cars but as Lee says; for me they make more sense as a fast daily than a fun toy. I don't doubt that the 'M magic' is there, but on first impressions I thought they felt more like a better version of a 435i/440i than a completely standalone model. The use of a straight 6 (albeit a different engine) really emphasised that for me. Whereas the E92, despite its flaws, always has that sense that the powertrain was something complete unique and bespoke.
The former was aggressive, stiffer, more firm riding (but not excessively so) louder and more akin to what I thought the M3 experience was going to be. Yes, you could dial things back and use it in a more relaxed manner, but it was one of those cars that you felt was happier when you grabbed it by the scruff, so to speak. It really wanted you to do so.
The manual (a 57 plate) had the original OEM flywheel that the range was launched with. I believe BMW updated it following customer feedback about 12 months later. Mine was so obstructive between 1st > 2nd, and slightly less so between 2nd > 3rd, that it became very wearing to drive in heavy traffic and was actually (incorrectly) diagnosed as faulty by a BMW specialist. Not to mention the effects of the infamous BMW clutch delay valve making the experience even worse!
I would be really intrigued to experience a later, comp pack manual to see whether the typical BMW incremental improvements rectified the issues they themselves acknowledged with the early manuals. That caveat aside, I really do think that despite the romantic association of 'manual + V8' that the engine was born to be mated with the DCT. In my opinion, a manual V8 works better when the lovely N/a throttle response is allied to something with more low-down torque.
As for comparisons with the other gens'...the E46 looks fab but I think the pool of low-owner / well-loved cars is very, very small now. I suspect, especially at current prices, that most would be a labour of love.
I like the look of the F8x cars but as Lee says; for me they make more sense as a fast daily than a fun toy. I don't doubt that the 'M magic' is there, but on first impressions I thought they felt more like a better version of a 435i/440i than a completely standalone model. The use of a straight 6 (albeit a different engine) really emphasised that for me. Whereas the E92, despite its flaws, always has that sense that the powertrain was something complete unique and bespoke.
KPB1973 said:
I like the look of the F8x cars but as Lee says; for me they make more sense as a fast daily than a fun toy. I don't doubt that the 'M magic' is there, but on first impressions I thought they felt more like a better version of a 435i/440i than a completely standalone model. The use of a straight 6 (albeit a different engine) really emphasised that for me. Whereas the E92, despite its flaws, always has that sense that the powertrain was something complete unique and bespoke.
In defence of the F8* cars they had a lot less in common with their cooking siblings than the previous generations of M3s had, BMW really pushed the boat out hence the chassis designation change and a straight 6 "is" the M3 engine, the e30 and e92 being the outliers when it comes to cylinder count across the 5 generations. F80 is much closer to the e46 ethos than an e92, the latter being a bit softer and more approachable/balanced which makes it the more biddable confidence inspiring car for me in later comp form.
Wills2 said:
Tony B2 said:
I don't miss my E92 Competition Pack, at all....(1 of 24 manuals in the UK, blah blah...!)
Because I still have it!
It followed 1 E92 M3 and 2 E46 M3s.
Both E92s made the E46s feel relatively noisy and uncomfortable, especially in terms of ride quality. The E92s have much better handling, thanks to less understeer, especially with the Competition Pack. I could bore on for many pages about this, but suffice to say, I did love my E46s, but had no regrets about moving on to the E92s. Apart from fuel consumption.
My first E92 M3 definitely had the flat-spot problem (it was like an early turbo-charged car) but once the ECU software was updated in 2009 the whole experience was different. Fuel consumption got much better after the update too.
Regarding gear-shift quality, I would agree that it is not Honda S2000/Porsche GT car slick, but feel can be significantly improved by swapping in an F10 M5 manual shifter knob (probably the same knob as in the M2).
The engine is indeed sublime - such a perfect combination of light throttle smoothness/refinement with wonderful, unstressed but manic rev-ability all the way from 5 or 6k to the 8400 red-line.
And - heresy, heresy - I actually prefer it to the Flat-6 in my Spyder.
I will not be selling this car, unless someone offers me Sierra RS500 money...!
Ah memories such a good forum BM3W wasn't it Tony, I preferred the S65 to the 9A1 flat 6 in the 911 as well, I kept hitting the limiter like all the time! Because I still have it!
It followed 1 E92 M3 and 2 E46 M3s.
Both E92s made the E46s feel relatively noisy and uncomfortable, especially in terms of ride quality. The E92s have much better handling, thanks to less understeer, especially with the Competition Pack. I could bore on for many pages about this, but suffice to say, I did love my E46s, but had no regrets about moving on to the E92s. Apart from fuel consumption.
My first E92 M3 definitely had the flat-spot problem (it was like an early turbo-charged car) but once the ECU software was updated in 2009 the whole experience was different. Fuel consumption got much better after the update too.
Regarding gear-shift quality, I would agree that it is not Honda S2000/Porsche GT car slick, but feel can be significantly improved by swapping in an F10 M5 manual shifter knob (probably the same knob as in the M2).
The engine is indeed sublime - such a perfect combination of light throttle smoothness/refinement with wonderful, unstressed but manic rev-ability all the way from 5 or 6k to the 8400 red-line.
And - heresy, heresy - I actually prefer it to the Flat-6 in my Spyder.
I will not be selling this car, unless someone offers me Sierra RS500 money...!
BM3W used to be first port of call when firing up my laptop in the morning.
Such a shame it was shut down without much warning and no opportunity to create an archive of all the accumulated knowledge on all generations.
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