Discussion
As a spectator it’s frustrating enough when a driver has a time disallowed by going over the white lines but for a driver it can cost an important place. They are seeking minute fractions of a second so of course they will push to the limits on bends where visibility is not totally clear.
Maybe kerbs or more gravel are needed to define corners better ?
Safety has to be considered but white lines need reconsidering. So many times are disallowed in qualifying or even afterwards .
Maybe kerbs or more gravel are needed to define corners better ?
Safety has to be considered but white lines need reconsidering. So many times are disallowed in qualifying or even afterwards .
I agree that there should be rules and regulations but in F1 today there are so many instances where drivers or teams are punished for infringements. If the punishment is announced immediately that helps but the other weekend where drivers who had stood on the podium receiving awards and adulation and then they were disqualified for car illegality.
Unfortunately some of this isn’t helped by stewards at different races having different standards.
Now it’s a case of wondering if the race results are going to change in a few days?
Unfortunately some of this isn’t helped by stewards at different races having different standards.
Now it’s a case of wondering if the race results are going to change in a few days?
White line rule, make the kerbs less than a cars width with a drop off on the other side, any car that goes over the white line will be off the kerb the other side and getting their floor damaged. No need then for penalties. These kerbs are the bolted down type (temporary street circuit types) so can be replaced with lower less severe kerbs for bike racing and only placed at the corners the problems exist.
FourWheelDrift said:
White line rule, make the kerbs less than a cars width with a drop off on the other side, any car that goes over the white line will be off the kerb the other side and getting their floor damaged. No need then for penalties. These kerbs are the bolted down type (temporary street circuit types) so can be replaced with lower less severe kerbs for bike racing and only placed at the corners the problems exist.
That sounds a good solution to me.DC stating that if so many drivers are exceeding limits then the circuit should be changed is absolute nonsense. The circuit is the circuit and they should not exceed it. Don't care if it is quicker if they exceed it.
I guess it’s now so prevalent that they need to come up with one of a number of solutions, all of which have positive and negative aspects.
So I guess the options are:
1. Continue as now, but with more human observers and cameras.
2. An automated technological solution, such as a loop in the track, that leads to an immediate sporting penalty such as 3s of no ERS deployment along the following straight.
3. A physical solution, such as a thin strip of wet mat bolted to the ground past the kerb, that makes no driver want to go near it because it will cost them time, more bollards on the inside on chicanes that could damage a wing if hit.
4. Just ignore track limits completely, like NASCAR at COTA, and let them cut corners and run wide if they wish.
5. More kerbs like those at Qatar, which threaten to seriously damage tyres and suspension if hit repeatedly.
6. Stop racing on all these middle-of-nowhere purpose built tracks, that means the fans all arrive by car and increase the carbon footprint of the event, and stick to city-based temporary street circuits with hard barriers everywhere.
The single most important thing, above everything else, needs to be consistency in application and timeliness of penalties. This, more than anything else, is what’s annoying the fans at the moment.
(One of the above was a joke by the way, but do we think the F1 higher-ups can guess which one?)
So I guess the options are:
1. Continue as now, but with more human observers and cameras.
2. An automated technological solution, such as a loop in the track, that leads to an immediate sporting penalty such as 3s of no ERS deployment along the following straight.
3. A physical solution, such as a thin strip of wet mat bolted to the ground past the kerb, that makes no driver want to go near it because it will cost them time, more bollards on the inside on chicanes that could damage a wing if hit.
4. Just ignore track limits completely, like NASCAR at COTA, and let them cut corners and run wide if they wish.
5. More kerbs like those at Qatar, which threaten to seriously damage tyres and suspension if hit repeatedly.
6. Stop racing on all these middle-of-nowhere purpose built tracks, that means the fans all arrive by car and increase the carbon footprint of the event, and stick to city-based temporary street circuits with hard barriers everywhere.
The single most important thing, above everything else, needs to be consistency in application and timeliness of penalties. This, more than anything else, is what’s annoying the fans at the moment.
(One of the above was a joke by the way, but do we think the F1 higher-ups can guess which one?)
rev-erend said:
Track limits and white lines are really starting to ruin the racing.
No, the lines have always been there but drivers took the piss on corners and just exceeded the track limits. The idiots running F1 let them get away with it mostly but now they are clamping down on it. You wouldn't let footballers play off the edge of a pitch. Fundamentally the race is on the track, if you go off it you should rightly be penalised. Drivers are just getting used to this now but essentially cheating by not staying on the track cannot be acceptable.Frimley111R said:
rev-erend said:
Track limits and white lines are really starting to ruin the racing.
No, the lines have always been there but drivers took the piss on corners and just exceeded the track limits. The idiots running F1 let them get away with it mostly but now they are clamping down on it. You wouldn't let footballers play off the edge of a pitch. Fundamentally the race is on the track, if you go off it you should rightly be penalised. Drivers are just getting used to this now but essentially cheating by not staying on the track cannot be acceptable.
thegreenhell said:
Frimley111R said:
rev-erend said:
Track limits and white lines are really starting to ruin the racing.
No, the lines have always been there but drivers took the piss on corners and just exceeded the track limits. The idiots running F1 let them get away with it mostly but now they are clamping down on it. You wouldn't let footballers play off the edge of a pitch. Fundamentally the race is on the track, if you go off it you should rightly be penalised. Drivers are just getting used to this now but essentially cheating by not staying on the track cannot be acceptable.Sandpit Steve said:
I guess it’s now so prevalent that they need to come up with one of a number of solutions, all of which have positive and negative aspects.
So I guess the options are:
1. Continue as now, but with more human observers and cameras.
2. An automated technological solution, such as a loop in the track, that leads to an immediate sporting penalty such as 3s of no ERS deployment along the following straight.
3. A physical solution, such as a thin strip of wet mat bolted to the ground past the kerb, that makes no driver want to go near it because it will cost them time, more bollards on the inside on chicanes that could damage a wing if hit.
4. Just ignore track limits completely, like NASCAR at COTA, and let them cut corners and run wide if they wish.
5. More kerbs like those at Qatar, which threaten to seriously damage tyres and suspension if hit repeatedly.
6. Stop racing on all these middle-of-nowhere purpose built tracks, that means the fans all arrive by car and increase the carbon footprint of the event, and stick to city-based temporary street circuits with hard barriers everywhere.
The single most important thing, above everything else, needs to be consistency in application and timeliness of penalties. This, more than anything else, is what’s annoying the fans at the moment.
(One of the above was a joke by the way, but do we think the F1 higher-ups can guess which one?)
2 sounds good to me. Make it an incrementing penalty too - first time 3s, second time 6s, etc. It needs to be something which actually makes a difference - just adding 5 seconds to the time often makes zero difference. If you really want to be aggressive with it, then make anyone going off the track twice have to give the place up to the car behind (doesn't matter if there 1 second or 1 minute behind).So I guess the options are:
1. Continue as now, but with more human observers and cameras.
2. An automated technological solution, such as a loop in the track, that leads to an immediate sporting penalty such as 3s of no ERS deployment along the following straight.
3. A physical solution, such as a thin strip of wet mat bolted to the ground past the kerb, that makes no driver want to go near it because it will cost them time, more bollards on the inside on chicanes that could damage a wing if hit.
4. Just ignore track limits completely, like NASCAR at COTA, and let them cut corners and run wide if they wish.
5. More kerbs like those at Qatar, which threaten to seriously damage tyres and suspension if hit repeatedly.
6. Stop racing on all these middle-of-nowhere purpose built tracks, that means the fans all arrive by car and increase the carbon footprint of the event, and stick to city-based temporary street circuits with hard barriers everywhere.
The single most important thing, above everything else, needs to be consistency in application and timeliness of penalties. This, more than anything else, is what’s annoying the fans at the moment.
(One of the above was a joke by the way, but do we think the F1 higher-ups can guess which one?)
3,5 Could be a problem for any motorcycles using the circuit.
The shambles at COTA where FIA had to admit the camera was set up wrongly, so they missed Perez continually cutting the corner (T6?), was pathetic. All the Palmersport tracks here seem to manage to have efficient sensors, so not sure why these others can't.
Sensors should work, followed by a drive through penalty for 5 infringements.
An infringement can be removed if it was deemed the driver went over the line for reasons other than laptime/overtake. (ie you shouldn't get penalised if you go off in order to avoid an accident, or were experiencing a car control issue etc)
Or disable DRS for any cars that are making their own version of the cicruit? Cut the corner - no DRS for 2 laps.
An infringement can be removed if it was deemed the driver went over the line for reasons other than laptime/overtake. (ie you shouldn't get penalised if you go off in order to avoid an accident, or were experiencing a car control issue etc)
Or disable DRS for any cars that are making their own version of the cicruit? Cut the corner - no DRS for 2 laps.
Tazar said:
I agree that there should be rules and regulations but in F1 today there are so many instances where drivers or teams are punished for infringements. If the punishment is announced immediately that helps but the other weekend where drivers who had stood on the podium receiving awards and adulation and then they were disqualified for car illegality.
Unfortunately some of this isn’t helped by stewards at different races having different standards.
Now it’s a case of wondering if the race results are going to change in a few days?
Track limit infringements are almost always notified the same lap the infringement took place. Unfortunately some of this isn’t helped by stewards at different races having different standards.
Now it’s a case of wondering if the race results are going to change in a few days?
Where there is a penalty relating to the legality of a car, that can only be determined through post-race scruitineering, which is often not the job of a moment.
I can't recall the last time a race result was altered days after the event...several years at least.
The reason there are so many instances where drivers or teams are punished for infringements is because so many teams and drivers are infringing the rules. Just because many do is not an argument to change or remove the rules. That would be like saying so many people are being caught speeding so we may as well increase the speed limit.
Competition is only meaningful when it is undertaken within a defined field of play to a defined set of rules that apply to everyone.
In the past, there has been variability in the manner in which Stewards operated but since AbuDhabi, I feel that there is greater homogeneity across the season. Not perfect but probably the best it's been.
Today?
I imagine not with the testing and healthy lifestyle.
90's?
Possibly for qualifying? Absolutely off-track, believe it was a fairly open secret, even for some recognised drivers.
Team racing in South America and returning to Europe? Earn a few quid assisting with the transatlantic distribution.
Yesteryear?
Necessity for endurance. Well, at least some magic pills. Mille Miglia. Le Mans. Fangio. Moss.
I imagine not with the testing and healthy lifestyle.
90's?
Possibly for qualifying? Absolutely off-track, believe it was a fairly open secret, even for some recognised drivers.
Team racing in South America and returning to Europe? Earn a few quid assisting with the transatlantic distribution.
Yesteryear?
Necessity for endurance. Well, at least some magic pills. Mille Miglia. Le Mans. Fangio. Moss.
CocoUK said:
Today?
I imagine not with the testing and healthy lifestyle.
90's?
Possibly for qualifying? Absolutely off-track, believe it was a fairly open secret, even for some recognised drivers.
Team racing in South America and returning to Europe? Earn a few quid assisting with the transatlantic distribution.
Yesteryear?
Necessity for endurance. Well, at least some magic pills. Mille Miglia. Le Mans. Fangio. Moss.
I imagine not with the testing and healthy lifestyle.
90's?
Possibly for qualifying? Absolutely off-track, believe it was a fairly open secret, even for some recognised drivers.
Team racing in South America and returning to Europe? Earn a few quid assisting with the transatlantic distribution.
Yesteryear?
Necessity for endurance. Well, at least some magic pills. Mille Miglia. Le Mans. Fangio. Moss.
Stealthracer said:
Should be a sensor under the centre line of the car, if that sensor sees the white line then a penalty is applied.
And it should be harsh enough to cost the driver several places, rather than the lenient few seconds they get now.
But half way off the track is not off the track. And how would it distinguish between other types of lines on the track, such as pit exits?And it should be harsh enough to cost the driver several places, rather than the lenient few seconds they get now.
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