Accepting new teams
Discussion
I understand how some of the existing F1 teams don’t want to accept new teams to expand from the existing 10 but if the team that finishes 10th at the end of the season is relegated as in soccer for a new team to join the Grid for the next season then that increases competition. Then again at the end of that season if the 10th finisher is relegated another team is accepted .
It may be the previous 10th finisher or a completely new team. The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved. There are enough experienced people involved in the industry to join a new team to make it a low point scorer in one season. So much of a car can be bought from another team in the first season so it’s possible. Drivers can be hired with experience of F1 as can engineers.
In this scenario Andretti can replace AlphaTauri on the current standings.
It may be the previous 10th finisher or a completely new team. The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved. There are enough experienced people involved in the industry to join a new team to make it a low point scorer in one season. So much of a car can be bought from another team in the first season so it’s possible. Drivers can be hired with experience of F1 as can engineers.
In this scenario Andretti can replace AlphaTauri on the current standings.
How do you have a factory with a thousand people on standby for promotion?
The bit I don't understand is why F1 have the reticence for more teams. If the Red Bull drinks company decides it's had enough (unlikely I know) then F1 would fold because with 16 cars it's a bit of a non event.
The bit I don't understand is why F1 have the reticence for more teams. If the Red Bull drinks company decides it's had enough (unlikely I know) then F1 would fold because with 16 cars it's a bit of a non event.
Tazar said:
I understand how some of the existing F1 teams don’t want to accept new teams to expand from the existing 10 but if the team that finishes 10th at the end of the season is relegated as in soccer for a new team to join the Grid for the next season then that increases competition. Then again at the end of that season if the 10th finisher is relegated another team is accepted .
It may be the previous 10th finisher or a completely new team. The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved. There are enough experienced people involved in the industry to join a new team to make it a low point scorer in one season. So much of a car can be bought from another team in the first season so it’s possible. Drivers can be hired with experience of F1 as can engineers.
In this scenario Andretti can replace AlphaTauri on the current standings.
What would you expect the team that got relegated to do? There is nothing similar for a team of 1,000+ people to do.It may be the previous 10th finisher or a completely new team. The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved. There are enough experienced people involved in the industry to join a new team to make it a low point scorer in one season. So much of a car can be bought from another team in the first season so it’s possible. Drivers can be hired with experience of F1 as can engineers.
In this scenario Andretti can replace AlphaTauri on the current standings.
Similarly, where would a new team come from each year? That 1000+ strong workforce are all highly trained in their roles.
Tazar said:
The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved.
They do. Back in the 80s and 90s it was possible for any dubious low-life millionaire to scrabble together a F1 team for less than a £1m with no hope of even qualifying for a race yet by turning up, pocketing a share of the fees paid by promotors and selling sponsorship to low-level businesses whose bosses fancied a trip to the track. Look up Andrea Moda!
It made F1 look silly so new entrants were subject to greater due diligence as well as the need to deposit a sizeable bond to demonstrate intent. I think this bond now stands at $200m.
Relegation can't work because as mentioned, there's nowhere for a F1 team to be relegated to. The only way that could work is to create a new series between F2 and F1 assuming there's sufficient teams to fill that series.
.
StevieBee said:
Tazar said:
The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved.
They do. Back in the 80s and 90s it was possible for any dubious low-life millionaire to scrabble together a F1 team for less than a £1m with no hope of even qualifying for a race yet by turning up, pocketing a share of the fees paid by promotors and selling sponsorship to low-level businesses whose bosses fancied a trip to the track. Look up Andrea Moda!
MustangGT said:
Tazar said:
I understand how some of the existing F1 teams don’t want to accept new teams to expand from the existing 10 but if the team that finishes 10th at the end of the season is relegated as in soccer for a new team to join the Grid for the next season then that increases competition. Then again at the end of that season if the 10th finisher is relegated another team is accepted .
It may be the previous 10th finisher or a completely new team. The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved. There are enough experienced people involved in the industry to join a new team to make it a low point scorer in one season. So much of a car can be bought from another team in the first season so it’s possible. Drivers can be hired with experience of F1 as can engineers.
In this scenario Andretti can replace AlphaTauri on the current standings.
What would you expect the team that got relegated to do? There is nothing similar for a team of 1,000+ people to do.It may be the previous 10th finisher or a completely new team. The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved. There are enough experienced people involved in the industry to join a new team to make it a low point scorer in one season. So much of a car can be bought from another team in the first season so it’s possible. Drivers can be hired with experience of F1 as can engineers.
In this scenario Andretti can replace AlphaTauri on the current standings.
Similarly, where would a new team come from each year? That 1000+ strong workforce are all highly trained in their roles.
They just need to allow more teams and tell the teams who veto the idea to behave.
Especially when Red Bull can run two teams, but no one else can!? I guess Alfa romeo is closest to being a Ferrari B team, but nothing like Alpha Tauri.
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win, so really are a bit of a pointless team, solely there as a driver programme.
Especially when Red Bull can run two teams, but no one else can!? I guess Alfa romeo is closest to being a Ferrari B team, but nothing like Alpha Tauri.
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win, so really are a bit of a pointless team, solely there as a driver programme.
CocoUK said:
StevieBee said:
Tazar said:
The FIA should do the due diligence on the finances and people involved.
They do. Back in the 80s and 90s it was possible for any dubious low-life millionaire to scrabble together a F1 team for less than a £1m with no hope of even qualifying for a race yet by turning up, pocketing a share of the fees paid by promotors and selling sponsorship to low-level businesses whose bosses fancied a trip to the track. Look up Andrea Moda!
RemarkLima said:
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win
They have. Twice (albeit in Torro Ross guise): Sebastian Vettel and Pierre Gasly. Personally, as long as there is space on the grid (going back to pre-qualifying could be severely detrimental to the existing teams), I don't think the teams should have any say in the matter unless they're objecting on genuine safety grounds. I know the way the concord agreement is written may well give them right to object on financial grounds, but IMO it shouldn't!
RemarkLima said:
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win
They have. Twice (albeit in Torro Ross guise): Sebastian Vettel and Pierre Gasly. If a team has been relegated then they must have serious thoughts about where they have not performed. They may decide they didn’t have enough funding so they get more sponsorship. They may decide that they don’t have the right engineering or design personnel so they get the right people. They may decide that their drivers are not performing so they get the best drivers possible. There has to be motivation. So a factory with 1000 people doesn’t sit back and moan “it’s not fair “ they get on and build a better car without having to rush around the world.
Alternatively accept more teams and the best 20 cars in qualifying start the race.
Alternatively accept more teams and the best 20 cars in qualifying start the race.
RemarkLima said:
They just need to allow more teams and tell the teams who veto the idea to behave.
Especially when Red Bull can run two teams, but no one else can!? I guess Alfa romeo is closest to being a Ferrari B team, but nothing like Alpha Tauri.
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win, so really are a bit of a pointless team, solely there as a driver programme.
The teams do not have a veto, all they can do is lobby and apply pressure to FOM. FOM are the only ones who get to decide whether a new team is allowed in or not.Especially when Red Bull can run two teams, but no one else can!? I guess Alfa romeo is closest to being a Ferrari B team, but nothing like Alpha Tauri.
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win, so really are a bit of a pointless team, solely there as a driver programme.
The existing teams all signed a commercial contract with FOM which details exactly what compensation they will get if a new team joins - the infamous $200m anti-dilution fee - and that's it. They don't get a say, they don't get a vote. In 2020 when the contracts were signed by the teams they were in weak financial position facing a potential global recession and uncertainty as to when they would be able to go racing again due to the pandemic. The contract essentially gave the team franchises and value based on future income which allowed them to secure their finances. At the time the $200m anti-dilution fee seemed incredible but appropriate. Now the teams think they are much more valuable - recent sales of Alpine shares would agree with this - and $200m looks good value.
The catch is that the current commercial contracts with the teams only run until the end of 2025. After that everything is up for renegotiation hence why Andretti is very keen to join the grid in 2025 because it may be their only chance. With the FIA decision making process taking a good 6 months longer than originally planned time is rapidly running out and this is why Andretti are talking about having a car in a tunnel this month. Andretti have to maintain the appearance of being able to be ready for 2025 in order to keep the pressure on FOM to make a decision. I would expect that reaching a commercial agreement with FOM in the middle of a very busy season is unlikely so it could easily be early 2024 before any final decision is made and that assumes FOM doesn't deliberately drag its heals to run out the clock.
Sandpit Steve said:
MustangGT said:
StevieBee said:
They have. Twice (albeit in Torro Ross guise): Sebastian Vettel and Pierre Gasly.
Wasn't Max's first win also in a TR, now AT?
Tazar said:
If a team has been relegated then they must have serious thoughts about where they have not performed. They may decide they didn’t have enough funding so they get more sponsorship. They may decide that they don’t have the right engineering or design personnel so they get the right people. They may decide that their drivers are not performing so they get the best drivers possible. There has to be motivation. So a factory with 1000 people doesn’t sit back and moan “it’s not fair “ they get on and build a better car without having to rush around the world.
Alternatively accept more teams and the best 20 cars in qualifying start the race.
How do they get more sponsorship if they're not racing? Sponsors get value by their name being on the car during Grand Prix. Without participation in a Grand Prix, why should they sponsor someone?Alternatively accept more teams and the best 20 cars in qualifying start the race.
Therefore how does the team fund the 1000 people who you want to not sit and "moan" and to build a better car?
How do they fund "the best drivers possible?"
These teams are businesses. Their business is F1 racing.
No racing = no money. No money = no team.
RemarkLima said:
RemarkLima said:
And the absurdity of Alpha Tauri is that they'll never win and will never even try to win
Sorry, I should have said WCC or WDC. Even if a team doesn't stand a chance, they are technically "in it to win it". Alpha Tauri really aren't, and seems pretty cynical to me.Outside of F1, how much money would you have put on Leicester City to win the Premier League in 2015/2016?
These are exceptions, but the point is you never know in sport.
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 27th October 09:55
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 27th October 09:56
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 27th October 09:56
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