Would I be mental for considering an XFR? (context within)
Discussion
I do like my MX5 but really it needs quite a lot of money spending on it to bring it up to scratch for the next few years, and if I'm being honest, despite my love the little thing, I keep finding my eyes wandering towards autotrader et al.
The recent 130i thread had me exploring the option for one of those little cars, and I can imagine for sure they're good fun, but the thing is, I've had three BMWs now, including a Z4 Coupe 3.0 Si, so in a way, I feel I know what to expect, plus I feel like BMWs can be relatively high maintenance especially as they get older - even though I know the N52 engine cars are one of the better ones.
Then Mrs TRD put it to me that would I not prefer a newer car, an opinion backed up by some other family members, one that will just work fairly reliably, so I began to explore that option. The issue is though, so far this year I've done less than 2,000 miles, and anything 'new' that takes my fancy is at least £20K, for example even an FK8 Civic Type R would set me back in the region of £30K, which is ludicrous really for a car that would do so few miles, not to mention the depreciation.
So then I started to look into cars that are newer than the one I have, but old enough to be a little more affordable. I've always quite fancied the RS Meganes, so I started to look into those, and came away with mixed opinions, some people say they are very robust and reliable, but others seem to have spent fortunes on keeping them on the road. This to me is the worst of all worlds, as you don't seem to be guaranteed any more reliability than with a much older car, yet still cost a lot more up front, and also depreciation still to factor in.
I looked at other alternatives too, but honestly, most of them just aren't floating my boat.
It really seems to me that you either buy old, and put up with the maintenance, buy new or nearly new, and face horrendous depreciation and a huge monthly payment, or you buy something in the middle, and end up with the worst of all worlds.
Then I thought to myself, I still haven't scratched the V8 itch. I nearly did so last year, when I foolishly bought another Boxster S instead, and famously regretted it (I'm sure most of the regulars here can remember the s
t I had with that car).
I've been looking into V8s again, and the one car that seems to crop up time and again is the XFR, and I'm wondering with my bad luck, whether I'd be mad to buy one, because on the face of it, they are:
- Fast as hell
- Reasonable cost to buy
- Seemingly surprisingly reliable / robust
- Supremely comfortable and wafty...
- ...and yet still capable of amusing the driver on a good set of corners
For the price of a decent Megane 265, I could have a supercharged 5.0 V8 Jag with 500 bhp, and potentially not find it hugely more expensive to run.
I feel like there must be a catch. Is there?
The recent 130i thread had me exploring the option for one of those little cars, and I can imagine for sure they're good fun, but the thing is, I've had three BMWs now, including a Z4 Coupe 3.0 Si, so in a way, I feel I know what to expect, plus I feel like BMWs can be relatively high maintenance especially as they get older - even though I know the N52 engine cars are one of the better ones.
Then Mrs TRD put it to me that would I not prefer a newer car, an opinion backed up by some other family members, one that will just work fairly reliably, so I began to explore that option. The issue is though, so far this year I've done less than 2,000 miles, and anything 'new' that takes my fancy is at least £20K, for example even an FK8 Civic Type R would set me back in the region of £30K, which is ludicrous really for a car that would do so few miles, not to mention the depreciation.
So then I started to look into cars that are newer than the one I have, but old enough to be a little more affordable. I've always quite fancied the RS Meganes, so I started to look into those, and came away with mixed opinions, some people say they are very robust and reliable, but others seem to have spent fortunes on keeping them on the road. This to me is the worst of all worlds, as you don't seem to be guaranteed any more reliability than with a much older car, yet still cost a lot more up front, and also depreciation still to factor in.
I looked at other alternatives too, but honestly, most of them just aren't floating my boat.
It really seems to me that you either buy old, and put up with the maintenance, buy new or nearly new, and face horrendous depreciation and a huge monthly payment, or you buy something in the middle, and end up with the worst of all worlds.
Then I thought to myself, I still haven't scratched the V8 itch. I nearly did so last year, when I foolishly bought another Boxster S instead, and famously regretted it (I'm sure most of the regulars here can remember the s
t I had with that car).I've been looking into V8s again, and the one car that seems to crop up time and again is the XFR, and I'm wondering with my bad luck, whether I'd be mad to buy one, because on the face of it, they are:
- Fast as hell
- Reasonable cost to buy
- Seemingly surprisingly reliable / robust
- Supremely comfortable and wafty...
- ...and yet still capable of amusing the driver on a good set of corners
For the price of a decent Megane 265, I could have a supercharged 5.0 V8 Jag with 500 bhp, and potentially not find it hugely more expensive to run.
I feel like there must be a catch. Is there?
100% do it!
If you've only done 2k miles this year, the fuel costs are going to be negligible between an XFR and a Megane 265. I don't know much about the XFR's but the 5.0 V8 has been used in all sorts and therefore I can't imagine the price of parts is going to be too high? Also, there is every chance you buy a Megane 265 and the clutch fails and it costs £1k to replace it, or the turbo decides to give up?
Shop around for parts, spend time on forums looking for common/easy fixes and find a decent local garage and it shouldn't be too expensive to run.
I bought a Lexus ISF in January this year and I've done 14k miles in it so far. Can't beat a V8!
If you've only done 2k miles this year, the fuel costs are going to be negligible between an XFR and a Megane 265. I don't know much about the XFR's but the 5.0 V8 has been used in all sorts and therefore I can't imagine the price of parts is going to be too high? Also, there is every chance you buy a Megane 265 and the clutch fails and it costs £1k to replace it, or the turbo decides to give up?
Shop around for parts, spend time on forums looking for common/easy fixes and find a decent local garage and it shouldn't be too expensive to run.
I bought a Lexus ISF in January this year and I've done 14k miles in it so far. Can't beat a V8!
T_S_M said:
100% do it!
If you've only done 2k miles this year, the fuel costs are going to be negligible between an XFR and a Megane 265. I don't know much about the XFR's but the 5.0 V8 has been used in all sorts and therefore I can't imagine the price of parts is going to be too high? Also, there is every chance you buy a Megane 265 and the clutch fails and it costs £1k to replace it, or the turbo decides to give up?
Shop around for parts, spend time on forums looking for common/easy fixes and find a decent local garage and it shouldn't be too expensive to run.
I bought a Lexus ISF in January this year and I've done 14k miles in it so far. Can't beat a V8!
Yes, the fuel consumption doesn't bother me at all; to be honest, I'm lucky if I hit 30 MPG in my MX5, and yet these Jags are said to be able to return low to mid 20s in mixed driving, which is absolutely fine for me.If you've only done 2k miles this year, the fuel costs are going to be negligible between an XFR and a Megane 265. I don't know much about the XFR's but the 5.0 V8 has been used in all sorts and therefore I can't imagine the price of parts is going to be too high? Also, there is every chance you buy a Megane 265 and the clutch fails and it costs £1k to replace it, or the turbo decides to give up?
Shop around for parts, spend time on forums looking for common/easy fixes and find a decent local garage and it shouldn't be too expensive to run.
I bought a Lexus ISF in January this year and I've done 14k miles in it so far. Can't beat a V8!
The VED is the only pisser, but there's no way you're going to get a 500 bhp car and not pay for it in some ways
And as you say, in terms of repairing it, I'm not always convinced the Meganes and the like would be any cheaper. Especially as I'd imagine a Jag is more likely to have been treat sympathetically than a Megane that's been flogged on a race track. I looked into the Astra GTC VXR as an alternative to the Megane, and some places claimed a brake disc for one of those was £800
I do need to scratch that V8 itch sometime before it's too late...
If you do go for the XFR then make sure the timing chain and tensioner has been updated to the latest one. Also, the coolant pipes in the V can often need replacing. Triple check the rear e-diff, they had a manufacturing issue and many had to be replaced.
There are some common inherent issues and nights with the XF and it's worth researching them. Same for many cars I guess. It's an epic engine and the XF is a lovely car.
There are some common inherent issues and nights with the XF and it's worth researching them. Same for many cars I guess. It's an epic engine and the XF is a lovely car.
ninjag said:
If you do go for the XFR then make sure the timing chain and tensioner has been updated to the latest one. Also, the coolant pipes in the V can often need replacing. Triple check the rear e-diff, they had a manufacturing issue and many had to be replaced.
There are some common inherent issues and nights with the XF and it's worth researching them. Same for many cars I guess. It's an epic engine and the XF is a lovely car.
Thanks. I've already read a few threads about these now and while some people seem to have few problems, for others they end up being a nightmare and with my luck I'll have to be careful.There are some common inherent issues and nights with the XF and it's worth researching them. Same for many cars I guess. It's an epic engine and the XF is a lovely car.
I could be wrong but I am sure the XFR came up on your previous thread as an option, but you really wanted the XKR, is that not a niggle any more?
The XFR is a huge machine, I parked next to one in my old E86 at a car meet and it literally was another 35% of car added on the back
I did look into them also but found lots of common issues that needed resolving, defintely more than an E85 which I decided to plump for in the end.
Good luck with the search, glad you are moving on from 'that' car and 'that' shoddy car check person!
The XFR is a huge machine, I parked next to one in my old E86 at a car meet and it literally was another 35% of car added on the back
I did look into them also but found lots of common issues that needed resolving, defintely more than an E85 which I decided to plump for in the end.
Good luck with the search, glad you are moving on from 'that' car and 'that' shoddy car check person!
coldel said:
The XFR is a huge machine, I parked next to one in my old E86 at a car meet and it literally was another 35% of car added on the back
Medium-sized 4-door saloon bigger than convertible shocker 
OP do it - get the chains done or one that's had them done, everything else is very addressable.
Krikkit said:
coldel said:
The XFR is a huge machine, I parked next to one in my old E86 at a car meet and it literally was another 35% of car added on the back
Medium-sized 4-door saloon bigger than convertible shocker OP do it - get the chains done or one that's had them done, everything else is very addressable.
Not sure what being a convertible would mean anyway, a BMW 5 series convertible is longer than an XFR saloon
TRD best thing is get out and try one, given all the cars that you have had before its a barge, so go give it a go!
Until recently I had an ND MX5 alongside an XJ Supersport and then a 5.0 XKR convertible both with the same engine as the XFR. The MX5 is gone now, I've still got both Jaguars. I only used the ND last year for a hoon holiday to Spain, even my usual mid Wales hoon routes are full fo fkwits and dawdlers now so I was hardly using it for the only thing it was any good for. I forced myself to commute in it to justify it's existence, but as you know they're a miserable thing to use for that sort of driving.
I'd seriously consider an XKR convertible if you want something between the two, it's far more fun than my XJ or an XFR in part because the roof comes down but also because they seem to have set the whole thing up to be that bit edgier. A previous owner has removed the quite tame standard rear silencer on mine and replaced it with one from Elite something or the other, which is something I personally would never do, but the noise it makes is absolutely incredible and it doesn't drone at all. They're also very cheap at trade and from private buyers who actually want to sell, not fantasists and dreamers who think it's still 2021 who sit on an ad for 6+ months, and far more numerous than the XFR and supercharged XJs.
There is actually only a single hose in the valley under the supercharger to fail, a hard line between the ridiculous plastic heater manifold at the back of the engine and the throttle body, and getting the charger out is not really that difficult so don't be put off my the horror stories, particularly if you're happy to DIY. The rest of the cooling system can be a pain, which has been the case with large engines literally forever, but I'm replacing the pump, thermostat, and every hose on this XK for a days work and £400 or so of bits. I think you could affect a temporary repair (bodge) of that throttle body hose if you needed to, either blocking it at both ends completely or running a hose around the side until you could fix it properly.
I gather some later supercharged engines moved to plastic for the Y shaped pipe that is the coolant outlet from the two sides of the cylinder block, and those can fail, but on both my 2010 cars these are aluminium.
FWIW I've come to the conclusion the timing chain is massively overstated on the internet. A friend of mine sees the worst most dog eared cars in the world come in through WBAC and not one of the many 5.0 RRs or the handful of Jaguars have had timing chain issues, even at moon miles.
I don't think you'll find a less costly to own and run 500bhp+ European car.
kwits and dawdlers now so I was hardly using it for the only thing it was any good for. I forced myself to commute in it to justify it's existence, but as you know they're a miserable thing to use for that sort of driving.I'd seriously consider an XKR convertible if you want something between the two, it's far more fun than my XJ or an XFR in part because the roof comes down but also because they seem to have set the whole thing up to be that bit edgier. A previous owner has removed the quite tame standard rear silencer on mine and replaced it with one from Elite something or the other, which is something I personally would never do, but the noise it makes is absolutely incredible and it doesn't drone at all. They're also very cheap at trade and from private buyers who actually want to sell, not fantasists and dreamers who think it's still 2021 who sit on an ad for 6+ months, and far more numerous than the XFR and supercharged XJs.
There is actually only a single hose in the valley under the supercharger to fail, a hard line between the ridiculous plastic heater manifold at the back of the engine and the throttle body, and getting the charger out is not really that difficult so don't be put off my the horror stories, particularly if you're happy to DIY. The rest of the cooling system can be a pain, which has been the case with large engines literally forever, but I'm replacing the pump, thermostat, and every hose on this XK for a days work and £400 or so of bits. I think you could affect a temporary repair (bodge) of that throttle body hose if you needed to, either blocking it at both ends completely or running a hose around the side until you could fix it properly.
I gather some later supercharged engines moved to plastic for the Y shaped pipe that is the coolant outlet from the two sides of the cylinder block, and those can fail, but on both my 2010 cars these are aluminium.
FWIW I've come to the conclusion the timing chain is massively overstated on the internet. A friend of mine sees the worst most dog eared cars in the world come in through WBAC and not one of the many 5.0 RRs or the handful of Jaguars have had timing chain issues, even at moon miles.
I don't think you'll find a less costly to own and run 500bhp+ European car.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 17th October 11:27
Do it. My partner has a 3.0 TDV6 XF, and that's quick enough for a daily commute. An XFR would be hilarious. They're very nice to sit inside, and far better put together than the general population think. The fact it doesn't LOOK like the road weapon it clearly is, helps stave off the traffic light challenges from overexcited kids, leaving you to enjoy the jawdropping way it hunts the horizon in peace.
Thanks all, the XKR is also still an option although might be handy to have the extra space, back seats etc hence me looking at an XFR instead.
They do sound hilarious but I'm just deciding at the minute how brave I am and get a grip on costs and whatnot. I'm still feeling somewhat nervous after my last car...
They do sound hilarious but I'm just deciding at the minute how brave I am and get a grip on costs and whatnot. I'm still feeling somewhat nervous after my last car...
coldel said:
Good luck with the search, glad you are moving on from 'that' car and 'that' shoddy car check person!
That goes without saying really you have to drive one TRD.
they're great cars, feel solid and hilariously fast. But.... they are big and heavy.
We're all different in what we enjoy. my personal choice is for such performance to be in something more nimble and for my barge to be quiet, reliable and cheap to run. I also find a slow barge comforting in that I know I can't go fast so I just sit back and relax.
Knowing your posting history I wonder whether you'd appreciate an E46 M3?
they're great cars, feel solid and hilariously fast. But.... they are big and heavy.
We're all different in what we enjoy. my personal choice is for such performance to be in something more nimble and for my barge to be quiet, reliable and cheap to run. I also find a slow barge comforting in that I know I can't go fast so I just sit back and relax.
Knowing your posting history I wonder whether you'd appreciate an E46 M3?
TameRacingDriver said:
ninjag said:
If you do go for the XFR then make sure the timing chain and tensioner has been updated to the latest one. Also, the coolant pipes in the V can often need replacing. Triple check the rear e-diff, they had a manufacturing issue and many had to be replaced.
There are some common inherent issues and nights with the XF and it's worth researching them. Same for many cars I guess. It's an epic engine and the XF is a lovely car.
Thanks. I've already read a few threads about these now and while some people seem to have few problems, for others they end up being a nightmare and with my luck I'll have to be careful.There are some common inherent issues and nights with the XF and it's worth researching them. Same for many cars I guess. It's an epic engine and the XF is a lovely car.
The timing chain changed from 6.35mm I think it was to 8mm but more importantly the aluminium guide was revised with a steel insert, because the steel chain would wear through the softer aluminium. You should be able to hear timing chain rattle upon cold start if there's a problem. You can also peek inside the oil cap and look at the chain to see if it's been updated and hopefully that would also mean the guide has been updated.
Top one is the newer 8mm (borrowed the photo from another site)
Regarding the e-diff, I believe it was a factory manufacturing/assembly fault where the paste used in the mould process wasn't removed before fitting and would come away inside the diff and ruin it.
Supercharger snout is another common one. It's like an anteater, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
An abundance of regular servicing would be a must. I was considering one, however, I needed an estate and the XFR-S Sportbrake is like a unicorn. Usually the advice it to get or maintain the Jaguar warranty which is 10 years 100,000 miles, but they are all getting close to the end of that now. If you have a good indy Jag specialist you can use (don't go near main dealer) and can keep a few grand aside then it's definitely worth it for this legendary engine.
TameRacingDriver said:
The recent 130i thread had me exploring the option for one of those little cars, and I can imagine for sure they're good fun, but the thing is, I've had three BMWs now, including a Z4 Coupe 3.0 Si, so in a way, I feel I know what to expect, plus I feel like BMWs can be relatively high maintenance especially as they get older - even though I know the N52 engine cars are one of the better ones.
I looked at other alternatives too, but honestly, most of them just aren't floating my boat.
It really seems to me that you either buy old, and put up with the maintenance, buy new or nearly new, and face horrendous depreciation and a huge monthly payment, or you buy something in the middle, and end up with the worst of all worlds.
Then I thought to myself, I still haven't scratched the V8 itch. I nearly did so last year, when I foolishly bought another Boxster S instead, and famously regretted it (I'm sure most of the regulars here can remember the st I had with that car).
I've been looking into V8s again, and the one car that seems to crop up time and again is the XFR, and I'm wondering with my bad luck, whether I'd be mad to buy one, because on the face of it, they are:
- Fast as hell
- Reasonable cost to buy
- Seemingly surprisingly reliable / robust
- Supremely comfortable and wafty...
- ...and yet still capable of amusing the driver on a good set of corners
For the price of a decent Megane 265, I could have a supercharged 5.0 V8 Jag with 500 bhp, and potentially not find it hugely more expensive to run.
I feel like there must be a catch. Is there?
Even relatively reliable big and heavy cars can still cost a chunk to run with everything from tyres to suspension arms. For what you’re after, I’d think a 3 Series size car would probably be more engaging and cheaper to run than a 5 Series equivalent, like the XF R.I looked at other alternatives too, but honestly, most of them just aren't floating my boat.
It really seems to me that you either buy old, and put up with the maintenance, buy new or nearly new, and face horrendous depreciation and a huge monthly payment, or you buy something in the middle, and end up with the worst of all worlds.
Then I thought to myself, I still haven't scratched the V8 itch. I nearly did so last year, when I foolishly bought another Boxster S instead, and famously regretted it (I'm sure most of the regulars here can remember the s
t I had with that car).I've been looking into V8s again, and the one car that seems to crop up time and again is the XFR, and I'm wondering with my bad luck, whether I'd be mad to buy one, because on the face of it, they are:
- Fast as hell
- Reasonable cost to buy
- Seemingly surprisingly reliable / robust
- Supremely comfortable and wafty...
- ...and yet still capable of amusing the driver on a good set of corners
For the price of a decent Megane 265, I could have a supercharged 5.0 V8 Jag with 500 bhp, and potentially not find it hugely more expensive to run.
I feel like there must be a catch. Is there?
I absolutely get the appeal of the XF R and they seem very good value (especially this one, which is suspiciously affordable - or they’re just trying to offload it quickly: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310163... but I’d think it’s still a liability size and weight-wise, without anything particularly big even going wrong. I bought a £5,625 A6 4.2 V8 FSI with full Audi history and 75k miles last December and it served me well, but it still cost me around £1,300 all in, with new front suspension arms, washer pump and some other small bits over eight months.
I’m sure the XF R is fast as hell, but the catch for me would be having very limited traction and having to hold back with supercharged gobs of torque, an automatic gearbox and two-wheel-drive limiting how much you can use it. You may find that amusing, but for me I’d hate having to hold back unless driving on a dry road, in a straight line with relatively new tyres. This is how I ended up with three consecutive AWD Audis and VWs! How important is steadfast traction to you?
Supercharged, V8, wafty and smaller than the XF R:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310082...
Comfy with a big, lazy - and very basic - V8 and slight sporty edge:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309101...
Big, comfy, sonorous V8 that is probably more robust than most, but not the sportiest:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309021...
Reasonably driver-centric and slightly more recent everyday V8 saloon:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307019...
Lazy, simple V8 that should be comfy and cheapish to run but hardly sporty:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304126...
Plenty of food for thought here, and for some reason I'm not quite as set on the idea tonight as I was last night, noting that perhaps it's not all sunshine and unicorns
Good post RoVoFob - and some interesting alternatives - I've driven a 300C, I wasn't keen on it at all to be honest. The others look a bit more appealing, though not really feeling the Volvo, as good as it may well be.
Good post RoVoFob - and some interesting alternatives - I've driven a 300C, I wasn't keen on it at all to be honest. The others look a bit more appealing, though not really feeling the Volvo, as good as it may well be.
TameRacingDriver said:
Plenty of food for thought here, and for some reason I'm not quite as set on the idea tonight as I was last night, noting that perhaps it's not all sunshine and unicorns
Good post RoVoFob - and some interesting alternatives - I've driven a 300C, I wasn't keen on it at all to be honest. The others look a bit more appealing, though not really feeling the Volvo, as good as it may well be.
Sure. I imagine the 300C and S80 won’t cover the sporty base…unless you buy a cheap one and then pay the same again fitting wildly inappropriate BC Racing coilovers, sticky tyres and other bits. Go on, you know you want to…Good post RoVoFob - and some interesting alternatives - I've driven a 300C, I wasn't keen on it at all to be honest. The others look a bit more appealing, though not really feeling the Volvo, as good as it may well be.
What are you thinking post-sunshine and unicorns - a milder V8, smaller engine or altogether less risky alternative?
Have to say, all of the alternatives suggested were completely wk 
The management of traction and grip is a plus, get some completely inert Audi if you want to point and stamp.
Go try a supercharged Jaguar. Yes it’ll cost more to run than a Dacia Duster but it’s worth it, and these days a 200bhp Golf can chuck £1,500 bills at will.
k The management of traction and grip is a plus, get some completely inert Audi if you want to point and stamp.
Go try a supercharged Jaguar. Yes it’ll cost more to run than a Dacia Duster but it’s worth it, and these days a 200bhp Golf can chuck £1,500 bills at will.
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