Stop Burning Stuff

[Vsix and Vtec]

I don't see the point of this. They're not saying or recommending anything that isn't already publicly available. It looks like a sales brochure for the companies Quentin Willson and this assortment of would be somebodies have persuaded to back thier new jobs.

[kambites]

Vsix and Vtec said:

I don't see the point of this.

I think it's just an attempt to directly combat the propaganda of the fossil fuel lobby.

Of course it wont work because the fossil fuel lobby can afford to throw billions at their campaigns.

[Vsix and Vtec]

I understand that's the intention, however it doesn't do anything that isn't already being done by other sources. The "manifesto" is just a sales brochure preceded by the same publicly available data that the BBC and other reputable outlets have been telling the public for some time.

Are you suggesting that they're intending to do battle for the hearts and minds of the tinfoil hat brigade? Because I fear I may have some bad news for them in that aspiration.

[Louis Balfour]

Vsix and Vtec said:

It looks like a sales brochure for the companies Quentin Willson and this assortment of would be somebodies have persuaded to back thier new jobs.

I watched less than five minutes of it, before this became completely apparent.

[Louis Balfour]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Perhaps you should have watched more than just the introductions of the speakers then and actually listened to what they had to say.

Not really.

They made clear their position in the first two minutes. In fact "Stop Burning Stuff" is a bit of a spoiler. If they later deviated from that it's their loss, frankly, they are professional presenters and should know better.

It's an hour long. I have better things to do with an hour.

[Louis Balfour]

CheesecakeRunner said:

And there we have the problem in a nutshell of two posts. “I’ll spout an incorrect opinion on something I know absolutely nothing about because social media gives me a platform to do so”.

Fair enough, you don’t want to spend time watching an hour long video. That’s fine. But you are then in no position to make any argument on the content of the video. Because you don’t know what they said.

Here's your chance to shine then. Precis what they said in a paragraph.

[Louis Balfour]

CheesecakeRunner said:

What’s the point? You could just read the description on the video.

I did. It wasn't very helpful.

CheesecakeRunner said:

Whatever I type isn’t going to change your mind.

Don't be so defeatist.

[TheRainMaker]

If a presenter can't even be arsed to pay attention, what hope does the rest of us have?

This is about the rudest thing you can do as a panalist



I tried to watch it, but the constant scoffing and smug grins made it hard going.

What was interesting was Lex auto lease has 165000 EVs on the books, which must be around 1/3 of all sold in the last three years

[Richard-D]

CheesecakeRunner said:

What’s the point? You could just read the description on the video. Whatever I type isn’t going to change your mind.

The point is not to have a synopsis, or a precis, or any other sort of summary because someone!s attention span is only a few seconds and they want spoon-feeding. The point is to actually take time to listen to, or read, fully formed arguments and information. Then people on all sides of the debate may learn something and we’ll remove just a little bit of ignorance from society.

You're unlikely to be able to offend someone into agreeing with you. The 'everyone has to agree with me or they're an idiot' brigade do nothing to help the uptake of EVs. I occasionally wonder if they know how harmful they are but can't see it or actually see their ego trip for what it is.

If EVs are so much better they will naturally become more prevalent whether TV presenters get their appearance fee or not.

[kambites]

Richard-D said:

If EVs are so much better they will naturally become more prevalent whether TV presenters get their appearance fee or not.

I think you underestimate the power of propaganda. The oil industry doesn't spend billions bribing the mainstream press and politicians to push lies and half-truths about anything that threatens them for amusement value.

[Richard-D]

kambites said:

Richard-D said:

If EVs are so much better they will naturally become more prevalent whether TV presenters get their appearance fee or not.

I think you underestimate the power of propaganda. The oil industry doesn't spend billions bribing the mainstream press and politicians to push lies and half-truths about anything that threatens them for amusement value.

A genuinely better technology will still rise to the fore. Regardless of whether you believe that or not, throwing insults at and berating the people you claim to want to convince will not further 'the cause'.

[Louis Balfour]

Richard-D said:

kambites said:

Richard-D said:

If EVs are so much better they will naturally become more prevalent whether TV presenters get their appearance fee or not.

I think you underestimate the power of propaganda. The oil industry doesn't spend billions bribing the mainstream press and politicians to push lies and half-truths about anything that threatens them for amusement value.

A genuinely better technology will still rise to the fore. Regardless of whether you believe that or not, throwing insults at and berating the people you claim to want to convince will not further 'the cause'.

I was at the factory of a very high end car manufacturer earlier this month, being ferried about in a hybrid. The conversation around EVs suggested that they don't consider them a long-term proposition, more an interim measure.

I've been offered one of their hybrids and I am chewing it over as a proposition. I have yet to do any research at all really, but a question that springs to mind is - what happens when battery becomes so degraded that it's u/s? I presume that whoever owns the car at that point has to pay for a new one. I cannot think that will be cheap.

[Richard-D]

Louis Balfour said:

I was at the factory of a very high end car manufacturer earlier this month, being ferried about in a hybrid. The conversation around EVs suggested that they don't consider them a long-term proposition, more an interim measure.

I've been offered one of their hybrids and I am chewing it over as a proposition. I have yet to do any research at all really, but a question that springs to mind is - what happens when battery becomes so degraded that it's u/s? I presume that whoever owns the car at that point has to pay for a new one. I cannot think that will be cheap.

Was it the hybrids or the EVs that they considered to be an interim measure? Could be read either way to me.

I don't like the idea of hybrids from a maintenance perspective.

[Sheepshanks]

CheesecakeRunner said:

I’m bunging a fiver in……

Not exactly going all in then?

[bearman68]

Surely it doesn't matter what the actual 'facts' are, it's what people believe? (Bit like Brexit really).

If EV's are better than IC, then companies will sell them, and if they aren't, they won't.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it does seem that some people are very resistant to EV, and the EV bunch are very evangelical.

Let the market decide what's best eh?

[TheRainMaker]

bearman68 said:

If EV's are better than IC, then companies will sell them, and if they aren't, they won't.

Let the market decide what's best eh?

This is where I am with it all. People will make the change when the cars are good enough for what they need.

I have one, it's fantastic for nearly everything. Long trips can be a challenge, but this has changed massively over the last year.

I still say if you can't charge at home, don't do it.

[105.4]

kambites said:

I think it's just an attempt to directly combat the propaganda of the fossil fuel lobby.

Of course it wont work because the fossil fuel lobby can afford to throw billions at their campaigns.

I’m not looking to be a NP&E ahole, but what propaganda?

As someone who seriously considered an electric van for work last year, (before buying a lightly used Renault Trafic), my concerns and resins for not doing so were;

Winter time range with 1.5-2.0 ton in the back of the van.
Long charge times.
Lack of supporting infrastructure.
Risk, (abelt slight), of a runaway fire that can’t be extinguished.

Whilst I acknowledge that the fire risk is likely to be slight, I don’t see any of my first three points as being propaganda.

[nismocat]

Louis Balfour said:

I've been offered one of their hybrids and I am chewing it over as a proposition. I have yet to do any research at all really, but a question that springs to mind is - what happens when battery becomes so degraded that it's u/s? I presume that whoever owns the car at that point has to pay for a new one. I cannot think that will be cheap.

As far as I’m aware the whole battery pack doesn’t degrade as one piece. There’s hundreds of cells and if only a handful fail it renders the pack less than at peak, the cars electronics then start having issues etc.

They reconfigure/rebuild it with new cells, but the proper way to do it is replace the replacement cells (they can’t be new in a second hand pack) with similar powered amps/watts whatever, otherwise a new unit will degrade much quicker as it’s doing more work.

[98elise]

bearman68 said:

Surely it doesn't matter what the actual 'facts' are, it's what people believe? (Bit like Brexit really).

If EV's are better than IC, then companies will sell them, and if they aren't, they won't.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it does seem that some people are very resistant to EV, and the EV bunch are very evangelical.

Let the market decide what's best eh?

Companies will sell whatever makes them the most money, consumers will buy on price and are resistant to change.

Being better from an engineering or environmental perspective isn't going to sell in numbers.

[ChocolateFrog]

Is this Robert "nice house with plenty of offroad parking, 3 phase electric, solar panels with large battery storage and multiple EVs" Lewellyn's personal crusade?

Fully Charged is one of the small handful of channels I've unsubscribed from, stopped about the time Jonny Smith couldn't stick it anymore.