Designing an occasional cinema room
Discussion
In my previous house I had a projector with retractable screen and a 5.1.4 sound system. House was a new build so all simple, more importantly I lived on my own so 'wife acceptance factor' wasn't an issue.
Fast forward a few years and there is a dining room we never use that would be better served as a snug / TV room.
I am looking for:
i) suggestions on how to make installation of a projector and sound system as discreet as possible
ii) comments on how Atmos height speakers will perform in a room with very high (3.5m ish) ceilings.
My thoughts are have the screen hidden behind a pelmet above the bay window, where the curtains are in the picture below and possibly use a floor mounted projector which would be concealed by a table but open to other ideas.
Pictures and estate agents plan as follows:
Room dimensions. The good news is there is space either side of the door for floorstanding speakers
Fast forward a few years and there is a dining room we never use that would be better served as a snug / TV room.
I am looking for:
i) suggestions on how to make installation of a projector and sound system as discreet as possible
ii) comments on how Atmos height speakers will perform in a room with very high (3.5m ish) ceilings.
My thoughts are have the screen hidden behind a pelmet above the bay window, where the curtains are in the picture below and possibly use a floor mounted projector which would be concealed by a table but open to other ideas.
Pictures and estate agents plan as follows:
Room dimensions. The good news is there is space either side of the door for floorstanding speakers
Discreet as possible? High Wife Acceptance Factor?
If the walls are plasterboard you could go for 'in-wall' speakers. If they aren't, a Sub-Satellite combination will be less intrusive on the eye than the floorstanders you mention.
I note what appears to be a window seat built below the window and, if being hidden (non-intrusive) as possible is a goal, you might consider rebuilding the seat to house both Sub woofer and Centre speakers. I can see a radiator in front and the purists will rightly say this isn't on, but it could be the right compromise (if non-intrusive is king).
Otherwise, moving the radiator to the left of the window and using a vertical radiator instead, then rebuild that window seat as suggested above.
If the radiator is moved the 'seat' could be deeper (chaise longue?) and the projector screen be built into this to come up out of it, rather than a drop down from the high ceiling or pelmet position.
I have a similar sized room to yours with the projector at the rear of room on top of a tall display cabinet and use PSB Imagine mini speakers apart from the Atmos height (PSB XA) and Centre (Linn). My screen drops down in the window reveal, which is wider than yours by the look of your photo / diagram and certainly lower in height.
In terms of Atmos height speakers I think, with 3.5m ceiling height, you'd be best served acoustically with in ceiling speakers, with a benefit to 'WAF'.
If the walls are plasterboard you could go for 'in-wall' speakers. If they aren't, a Sub-Satellite combination will be less intrusive on the eye than the floorstanders you mention.
I note what appears to be a window seat built below the window and, if being hidden (non-intrusive) as possible is a goal, you might consider rebuilding the seat to house both Sub woofer and Centre speakers. I can see a radiator in front and the purists will rightly say this isn't on, but it could be the right compromise (if non-intrusive is king).
Otherwise, moving the radiator to the left of the window and using a vertical radiator instead, then rebuild that window seat as suggested above.
If the radiator is moved the 'seat' could be deeper (chaise longue?) and the projector screen be built into this to come up out of it, rather than a drop down from the high ceiling or pelmet position.
I have a similar sized room to yours with the projector at the rear of room on top of a tall display cabinet and use PSB Imagine mini speakers apart from the Atmos height (PSB XA) and Centre (Linn). My screen drops down in the window reveal, which is wider than yours by the look of your photo / diagram and certainly lower in height.
In terms of Atmos height speakers I think, with 3.5m ceiling height, you'd be best served acoustically with in ceiling speakers, with a benefit to 'WAF'.
I recently refurbished the living room. Before, I was using a traditional TV stand to hold all the electronics, along with a Quad 5.1 speaker system.
The new setup has all the electronics hidden in some cupboards the other side of the wall (controlled by a Harmony remote/hub). The front 3 channels are a passive soundbar (Monitor Audio SB3), the surrounds are ceiling speakers (Monitor Audio CS165).
Foolishly I didn't consider height speakers, as my old AV amp didn't do Atmos. Currently got a pair of Polk toppers sitting on the Quad sub, but they will be replaced in time with another pair of MA ceiling speakers.
Very impressed with how it sounds compared to the old setup, and it looks so much "cleaner".
The new setup has all the electronics hidden in some cupboards the other side of the wall (controlled by a Harmony remote/hub). The front 3 channels are a passive soundbar (Monitor Audio SB3), the surrounds are ceiling speakers (Monitor Audio CS165).
Foolishly I didn't consider height speakers, as my old AV amp didn't do Atmos. Currently got a pair of Polk toppers sitting on the Quad sub, but they will be replaced in time with another pair of MA ceiling speakers.
Very impressed with how it sounds compared to the old setup, and it looks so much "cleaner".
Techno9000 said:
Discreet as possible? High Wife Acceptance Factor?
If the walls are plasterboard you could go for 'in-wall' speakers. If they aren't, a Sub-Satellite combination will be less intrusive on the eye than the floorstanders you mention.
The walls are solid so not good candidates for in wall, however I think floorstanders will be OK as I would be moving them out of the living room which is to become a more formal space.If the walls are plasterboard you could go for 'in-wall' speakers. If they aren't, a Sub-Satellite combination will be less intrusive on the eye than the floorstanders you mention.
In ceiling for the Atoms speakers is definitely on the cards, this is what I had before and it worked well and I suppose the delays can be tuned to account for the height vs most living rooms.
Good idea on moving the radiator below the seat as this would solve a few problems. Where to put the centre speaker has so far been my biggest worry. The main WAF issue is "you can't put anything in front of the window" as if the view directly into a hedge is something we spend ages gazing at....
Ben
JEA1K said:
That room is a real challenge ... for that reason, I would keep the system as simple as possible:
Audio - Two channel ... forget the centre and surround speakers
Video - UST projector, floor mounted ALR screen
Definitely don't want two channel audio, whilst not perfect I can't see why surround can't work. There will be a rug on the floor (or possibly carpet) so I am told so reflections from the hard floor will be drastically reduced.Audio - Two channel ... forget the centre and surround speakers
Video - UST projector, floor mounted ALR screen
No reason at all why a surround sound system wouldn't work in that room, the width and length are very similar to my viewing room, the height a chunk more but any surround receiver will be able to adjust the delays to give a believable soundfield.
A decent sized rug will certainly help, preferably a full carpet, as hard flooring makes the room a bit 'lively'.
What AV amp / receiver or processor do you have or will you be purchasing one for this room?
A decent sized rug will certainly help, preferably a full carpet, as hard flooring makes the room a bit 'lively'.
What AV amp / receiver or processor do you have or will you be purchasing one for this room?
Techno9000 said:
No reason at all why a surround sound system wouldn't work in that room, the width and length are very similar to my viewing room, the height a chunk more but any surround receiver will be able to adjust the delays to give a believable soundfield.
A decent sized rug will certainly help, preferably a full carpet, as hard flooring makes the room a bit 'lively'.
What AV amp / receiver or processor do you have or will you be purchasing one for this room?
I have an ONKYO receiver that I have had for some years now it has ATMOS and THX ultra etc.A decent sized rug will certainly help, preferably a full carpet, as hard flooring makes the room a bit 'lively'.
What AV amp / receiver or processor do you have or will you be purchasing one for this room?
A run and some more 'soft furnishing' will take the edge off, it is very boomy in there at the moment.
I would also like TV in there but reluctant to put it in front of the window
If the Onkyo has room correction (I see some have DIRAC) it would help tremendously.
You could consider options to use a TV lift and build that into the area where the window seat is.
I use a 43" TV on a very low shelf so that we can see over it to the garden beyond. A 43" is big enough for general viewing from 12" or so, (especially when you have an option to use the projector when required) and will be around 24" high, so might fit below your window and be lifted up into viewing position as and when.
I use a Denon with Audyssey, I can't stress how big a difference it makes to the soundfield (in a good way), it also has two HDMI outputs for 'Zone 1' so switching back and forth to the projector is a doddle.
You could consider options to use a TV lift and build that into the area where the window seat is.
I use a 43" TV on a very low shelf so that we can see over it to the garden beyond. A 43" is big enough for general viewing from 12" or so, (especially when you have an option to use the projector when required) and will be around 24" high, so might fit below your window and be lifted up into viewing position as and when.
I use a Denon with Audyssey, I can't stress how big a difference it makes to the soundfield (in a good way), it also has two HDMI outputs for 'Zone 1' so switching back and forth to the projector is a doddle.
I went with B&W M1's for heights as they have a wall mountable stand and can be rotated to your sitting position pretty easily - if you want the heights lower down than ceiling height these would probably work mounted on the walls.
Unrelated but one thing that took me way too long to fix was putting my front and rear speakers upside down so the tweeters were closer to ear level to our seating positions - made a massive difference! They are stand mounts so just flipped the covers so they look right way up.
Unrelated but one thing that took me way too long to fix was putting my front and rear speakers upside down so the tweeters were closer to ear level to our seating positions - made a massive difference! They are stand mounts so just flipped the covers so they look right way up.
Techno9000 said:
If the Onkyo has room correction (I see some have DIRAC) it would help tremendously.
You could consider options to use a TV lift and build that into the area where the window seat is.
I use a 43" TV on a very low shelf so that we can see over it to the garden beyond. A 43" is big enough for general viewing from 12" or so, (especially when you have an option to use the projector when required) and will be around 24" high, so might fit below your window and be lifted up into viewing position as and when.
I use a Denon with Audyssey, I can't stress how big a difference it makes to the soundfield (in a good way), it also has two HDMI outputs for 'Zone 1' so switching back and forth to the projector is a doddle.
It has Audyssey (or similar, it has a set up microphone) so that will indeed help. It is the same unit I used in my old place and was ideal for switching HDMI outputs between a TV and a projector (and has a 12V trigger for the screen / projector)You could consider options to use a TV lift and build that into the area where the window seat is.
I use a 43" TV on a very low shelf so that we can see over it to the garden beyond. A 43" is big enough for general viewing from 12" or so, (especially when you have an option to use the projector when required) and will be around 24" high, so might fit below your window and be lifted up into viewing position as and when.
I use a Denon with Audyssey, I can't stress how big a difference it makes to the soundfield (in a good way), it also has two HDMI outputs for 'Zone 1' so switching back and forth to the projector is a doddle.
I would just put the TV in the window, you can see f-all out of that window but apparently it is vital that the lower 15% of it is not blocked.....
I did a fairly discrete install.
- Electric drop-down screen hidden in the curtain pelmet, just in front of the curtain rail
- White ceiling-mounted projector, on the lowest profile mount I could find
- All cabling to the projector (HDMI, power) hidden in the ceiling and with white cables/plugs
- I used Cambridge Audio Minx small satellite speakers, mounted up in the corners. Though in-ceiling would have been more discrete
- Subwoofer hidden in a corner, all other kit hidden in a cupboard
- Electric drop-down screen hidden in the curtain pelmet, just in front of the curtain rail
- White ceiling-mounted projector, on the lowest profile mount I could find
- All cabling to the projector (HDMI, power) hidden in the ceiling and with white cables/plugs
- I used Cambridge Audio Minx small satellite speakers, mounted up in the corners. Though in-ceiling would have been more discrete
- Subwoofer hidden in a corner, all other kit hidden in a cupboard
BigBen said:
Definitely don't want two channel audio, whilst not perfect I can't see why surround can't work. There will be a rug on the floor (or possibly carpet) so I am told so reflections from the hard floor will be drastically reduced.
It could work ... just too many compromises where I would question whether its worth it. You can't go in-wall with speakers, the ceilings are at a guess 3m high so in-ceiling speaker performance not ideal ... that leaves free-standing speakers for the rear and sides which will impede the walking space between the doors. I just think there are two many issues to overcome, hence the suggestion of a two channel system (or even 2.1), albiet with more omph.
JEA1K said:
It could work ... just too many compromises where I would question whether its worth it. You can't go in-wall with speakers, the ceilings are at a guess 3m high so in-ceiling speaker performance not ideal ... that leaves free-standing speakers for the rear and sides which will impede the walking space between the doors.
I just think there are two many issues to overcome, hence the suggestion of a two channel system (or even 2.1), albiet with more omph.
There is space for free standing speakers close to each door (luckily) which would not be in the way of walking. I just think there are two many issues to overcome, hence the suggestion of a two channel system (or even 2.1), albiet with more omph.
Agree that in ceiling is not ideal for the main speakers but for Atomos height channels will hopefully still be OK.
Ben
BigBen said:
In my previous house I had a projector with retractable screen and a 5.1.4 sound system. House was a new build so all simple, more importantly I lived on my own so 'wife acceptance factor' wasn't an issue.
Fast forward a few years and there is a dining room we never use that would be better served as a snug / TV room.
I am looking for:
i) suggestions on how to make installation of a projector and sound system as discreet as possible
ii) comments on how Atmos height speakers will perform in a room with very high (3.5m ish) ceilings.
My thoughts are have the screen hidden behind a pelmet above the bay window, where the curtains are in the picture below and possibly use a floor mounted projector which would be concealed by a table but open to other ideas.
Pictures and estate agents plan as follows:
Room dimensions. The good news is there is space either side of the door for floorstanding speakers
I like the room.Fast forward a few years and there is a dining room we never use that would be better served as a snug / TV room.
I am looking for:
i) suggestions on how to make installation of a projector and sound system as discreet as possible
ii) comments on how Atmos height speakers will perform in a room with very high (3.5m ish) ceilings.
My thoughts are have the screen hidden behind a pelmet above the bay window, where the curtains are in the picture below and possibly use a floor mounted projector which would be concealed by a table but open to other ideas.
Pictures and estate agents plan as follows:
Room dimensions. The good news is there is space either side of the door for floorstanding speakers
Tell Mrs Ben she must emerge from the door on the left, during the interval, with a tray of ice creams around her neck.
As for the tech, I have no idea. But I think your idea of a screen behind a pelmet above the window works best, in terms of the room.
Could you house the projector in a suitable antique?
In terms of the speakers "hiding" I think so long as you go for something sober in appearance and dress the room appropriately they will vanish, because the eye will be drawn to something more interesting.
Fun project.
Edited by Louis Balfour on Wednesday 4th October 17:08
BigBen said:
There is space for free standing speakers close to each door (luckily) which would not be in the way of walking.
Agree that in ceiling is not ideal for the main speakers but for Atomos height channels will hopefully still be OK.
Ben
My audio in the loft cinema room is on hold with 5.1 system doing duty - there doesn't seem to be all that much stuff about in Atmos to justify the upgrades from what i've seen so far.Agree that in ceiling is not ideal for the main speakers but for Atomos height channels will hopefully still be OK.
Ben
eliot said:
BigBen said:
There is space for free standing speakers close to each door (luckily) which would not be in the way of walking.
Agree that in ceiling is not ideal for the main speakers but for Atomos height channels will hopefully still be OK.
Ben
My audio in the loft cinema room is on hold with 5.1 system doing duty - there doesn't seem to be all that much stuff about in Atmos to justify the upgrades from what i've seen so far.Agree that in ceiling is not ideal for the main speakers but for Atomos height channels will hopefully still be OK.
Ben
It's probably pointless if you only watch comedies or classics.
Just don't make the mistake I did of installing the Atmos speakers under a child's bedroom - despite acoustic firehoods I have had to deactivate Atmos for now.
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