Outlook for Chademo public charging? (Leaf)
Discussion
I'm looking to buy a used EV for c. £15k, and my wife is keen on the Leaf. We could get a 62kWh e+ for that.
However, as is known, the Leaf is the only car still (just about) on sale new in the UK with a Chademo charging connector, everything else having switched to CCS (even Nissan's own Ariya).
It thus seems that the number of Chademo cars on UK roads must be near its peak and likely to start decreasing in the next year or two. (I'm assuming Nissan will replace the Leaf with an all-new model with CCS). Meanwhile the number of cars with CCS should be increasing rapidly as the electrification of the fleet proceeds, meaning that in say 5 years, Chademo cars will be a fairly small minority of all EVs on the roads.
As far as I can see, currently there are fairly similar numbers of CCS and Chademo chargers, presumably some are 'dual head' chargers with one of each type and other places have similar numbers of each.
Gridserve are pledging to continue supporting Chademo, whereas Ionity are CCS-only.
I understand that Chademo and CCS have not only different physical plugs but also different protocols for communicating between charger and car, so any adapter is likely complex and pricey (and might introduce an extra source of bugs into the charging handshake). It sounds like £3k to convert a Leaf to CCS charging.
https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/convert-le...
I don't plan to do regular long journeys, but I'd like the car I buy to be capable of doing so occasionally. My concern is that in future there may be more charging stations which don't support Chademo, that there may be few plugs available, and that if the Chademo charger stops working it may not be a priority to fix. All adding up to charging anxiety increasing for Leaf drivers even as it decreases for all other EVs as more facilities are brought online. This might also reduce the saleability of a Leaf in say 5 years time compared to an EV of currently similar value with CCS.
Alternatively I could be worrying about nothing, Chademo charging could continue to be widespread and if there are fewer cars using them, they might even be less contended than CCS chargers.
I appreciate that prediction is difficult, especially about the future, but I'd be interested to hear others' opinions / prognostications about the future of Chademo charging in the UK, and thus of the Leaf as more than a local-area runabout.
However, as is known, the Leaf is the only car still (just about) on sale new in the UK with a Chademo charging connector, everything else having switched to CCS (even Nissan's own Ariya).
It thus seems that the number of Chademo cars on UK roads must be near its peak and likely to start decreasing in the next year or two. (I'm assuming Nissan will replace the Leaf with an all-new model with CCS). Meanwhile the number of cars with CCS should be increasing rapidly as the electrification of the fleet proceeds, meaning that in say 5 years, Chademo cars will be a fairly small minority of all EVs on the roads.
As far as I can see, currently there are fairly similar numbers of CCS and Chademo chargers, presumably some are 'dual head' chargers with one of each type and other places have similar numbers of each.
Gridserve are pledging to continue supporting Chademo, whereas Ionity are CCS-only.
I understand that Chademo and CCS have not only different physical plugs but also different protocols for communicating between charger and car, so any adapter is likely complex and pricey (and might introduce an extra source of bugs into the charging handshake). It sounds like £3k to convert a Leaf to CCS charging.
https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/convert-le...
I don't plan to do regular long journeys, but I'd like the car I buy to be capable of doing so occasionally. My concern is that in future there may be more charging stations which don't support Chademo, that there may be few plugs available, and that if the Chademo charger stops working it may not be a priority to fix. All adding up to charging anxiety increasing for Leaf drivers even as it decreases for all other EVs as more facilities are brought online. This might also reduce the saleability of a Leaf in say 5 years time compared to an EV of currently similar value with CCS.
Alternatively I could be worrying about nothing, Chademo charging could continue to be widespread and if there are fewer cars using them, they might even be less contended than CCS chargers.
I appreciate that prediction is difficult, especially about the future, but I'd be interested to hear others' opinions / prognostications about the future of Chademo charging in the UK, and thus of the Leaf as more than a local-area runabout.
Unless you can stick to home/work AC charging I would not entertain a Chademo car.
You've obviously done your research and summarised it well.
It's very hard to make money from EV charging as it is, so I would expect virtually no new Chademo chargers going in to new sites or upgrades on existing ones, and a very low priority on maintaining existing ones.
You've obviously done your research and summarised it well.
It's very hard to make money from EV charging as it is, so I would expect virtually no new Chademo chargers going in to new sites or upgrades on existing ones, and a very low priority on maintaining existing ones.
samoht said:
I'm looking to buy a used EV for c. £15k, and my wife is keen on the Leaf. We could get a 62kWh e+ for that.
However, as is known, the Leaf is the only car still (just about) on sale new in the UK with a Chademo charging connector, everything else having switched to CCS (even Nissan's own Ariya).
It thus seems that the number of Chademo cars on UK roads must be near its peak and likely to start decreasing in the next year or two. (I'm assuming Nissan will replace the Leaf with an all-new model with CCS). Meanwhile the number of cars with CCS should be increasing rapidly as the electrification of the fleet proceeds, meaning that in say 5 years, Chademo cars will be a fairly small minority of all EVs on the roads.
As far as I can see, currently there are fairly similar numbers of CCS and Chademo chargers, presumably some are 'dual head' chargers with one of each type and other places have similar numbers of each.
Gridserve are pledging to continue supporting Chademo, whereas Ionity are CCS-only.
I understand that Chademo and CCS have not only different physical plugs but also different protocols for communicating between charger and car, so any adapter is likely complex and pricey (and might introduce an extra source of bugs into the charging handshake). It sounds like £3k to convert a Leaf to CCS charging.
https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/convert-le...
I don't plan to do regular long journeys, but I'd like the car I buy to be capable of doing so occasionally. My concern is that in future there may be more charging stations which don't support Chademo, that there may be few plugs available, and that if the Chademo charger stops working it may not be a priority to fix. All adding up to charging anxiety increasing for Leaf drivers even as it decreases for all other EVs as more facilities are brought online. This might also reduce the saleability of a Leaf in say 5 years time compared to an EV of currently similar value with CCS.
Alternatively I could be worrying about nothing, Chademo charging could continue to be widespread and if there are fewer cars using them, they might even be less contended than CCS chargers.
I appreciate that prediction is difficult, especially about the future, but I'd be interested to hear others' opinions / prognostications about the future of Chademo charging in the UK, and thus of the Leaf as more than a local-area runabout.
I have been thinking about getting an electric car recently. The Nissan Leaf looks a good second hand buy, it has only just dawned on me that the Nissan Leaf uses Chademo charging, which, as I understand it, is yesterday's technology.However, as is known, the Leaf is the only car still (just about) on sale new in the UK with a Chademo charging connector, everything else having switched to CCS (even Nissan's own Ariya).
It thus seems that the number of Chademo cars on UK roads must be near its peak and likely to start decreasing in the next year or two. (I'm assuming Nissan will replace the Leaf with an all-new model with CCS). Meanwhile the number of cars with CCS should be increasing rapidly as the electrification of the fleet proceeds, meaning that in say 5 years, Chademo cars will be a fairly small minority of all EVs on the roads.
As far as I can see, currently there are fairly similar numbers of CCS and Chademo chargers, presumably some are 'dual head' chargers with one of each type and other places have similar numbers of each.
Gridserve are pledging to continue supporting Chademo, whereas Ionity are CCS-only.
I understand that Chademo and CCS have not only different physical plugs but also different protocols for communicating between charger and car, so any adapter is likely complex and pricey (and might introduce an extra source of bugs into the charging handshake). It sounds like £3k to convert a Leaf to CCS charging.
https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/convert-le...
I don't plan to do regular long journeys, but I'd like the car I buy to be capable of doing so occasionally. My concern is that in future there may be more charging stations which don't support Chademo, that there may be few plugs available, and that if the Chademo charger stops working it may not be a priority to fix. All adding up to charging anxiety increasing for Leaf drivers even as it decreases for all other EVs as more facilities are brought online. This might also reduce the saleability of a Leaf in say 5 years time compared to an EV of currently similar value with CCS.
Alternatively I could be worrying about nothing, Chademo charging could continue to be widespread and if there are fewer cars using them, they might even be less contended than CCS chargers.
I appreciate that prediction is difficult, especially about the future, but I'd be interested to hear others' opinions / prognostications about the future of Chademo charging in the UK, and thus of the Leaf as more than a local-area runabout.
Any bright ideas?
Buy a different car with different charging technology? But they aren't as cheap?
Alickadoo said:
I have been thinking about getting an electric car recently. The Nissan Leaf looks a good second hand buy, it has only just dawned on me that the Nissan Leaf uses Chademo charging, which, as I understand it, is yesterday's technology.
Any bright ideas?
Buy a different car with different charging technology? But they aren't as cheap?
A £5k early Leaf is realistically a car for local trips only, so fast public charging isn't really relevant. I think the Chademo factor is more of an issue with the Mk2s, where you could be looking at spending £10-15k+ on a car and counting on it being usable for occasional longer trips with public charging.Any bright ideas?
Buy a different car with different charging technology? But they aren't as cheap?
Above about £6k you can get a Zoe
From the £10-12k bracket the options really open up - i3, Ioniq, Corsa E, Seat Mii
The key factors are budget, intended usage, and whether you have a drive/garage to charge at home.
I've been looking at this issue too as I like the look of a Lexus UX300e at £25k, despite some shortcomings I'm a fan of Lexus and the top spec comes with pretty much everything. Chademo port and slow charging let it down, although I would charge at home 99% of the time, what if I'm stuffed when I need a public charge? If I PCP for 3 or 4 years, a lot can change in that time if Chads are phasing out.
P675 said:
I've been looking at this issue too as I like the look of a Lexus UX300e at £25k, despite some shortcomings I'm a fan of Lexus and the top spec comes with pretty much everything. Chademo port and slow charging let it down, although I would charge at home 99% of the time, what if I'm stuffed when I need a public charge? If I PCP for 3 or 4 years, a lot can change in that time if Chads are phasing out.
I'd be fairly relaxed about it if I only needed to rely on public charging occasionally and if the car's residual value wasn't my concern. I don't think you'll be completely cut off in 3-4 years, just you may need to pick your charge points more carefully and might end up waiting a bit longer for a free connector. But for an occasional thing over 3 or 4 years, and then hand the car back, I wouldn't worry.My concerns were that if I owned the car outright, and then sold it in 3-4 years, it might not be worth very much if Chademo public charging was starting to become a pain.
Can a Leaf be plugged into public chargers and charge at a lower rate, say 7kW (type 2 I think?) I presume ChAdeMO is only for fast charging?
Forgive my ignorance, I know they can charged from a 3 pin socket at home (it's why I would consider one) but if out and about and needing a top up, a 3kW rate wouldn't be ideal.
Forgive my ignorance, I know they can charged from a 3 pin socket at home (it's why I would consider one) but if out and about and needing a top up, a 3kW rate wouldn't be ideal.
Edited by sixor8 on Wednesday 30th August 15:04
I don't find it an issue, I bought a new e+ last year and that replaced a (CCS) eGolf.
Ionity and the (open to all) Tesla superchargers are off-limits, else you're well catered for. Instavolt, MFG, Osprey, Shell, BP, Geniepoint, Podpoint and many others are still putting CHAdeMO on every unit. Gridserve have said they'll keep a ratio which generally works out fine. In 5 years who knows? There's way too many CHAdeMO cars and vans out there to ignore, even if the sales of new EVs are a vast majority CCS. The Leaf was the 5th best selling EV in 2022, and 4th the year before.
With more range in the e+ you can be a lot more choosy about where to stop, and often that's where you fancy a break rather than the car needing one. It makes it really easy to plan around the bigger hubs or more favorable spots - I know I can make it to Bristol if I'm heading west (or the nice farm shop just by Swindon junction with 4 Instavolts), or Markham Moor if I'm heading north, or Corley services then the MFG at the Wigan junction if I'm heading NW. I generally avoided services before in the Golf as CCS provision was awful, and after years of ecotricity monopoly many of the other networks have scooped up loads of good sites just off motorway junctions.
The other part to this is a future CCS conversion. Muxsan already have a commercial one (pricey though at roughly £3k), but there are other projects on the go to achieve the same at lower cost. The deal on offer for my car was good enough that I thought even if I spent £3k in a few years time to get a conversion done it would still be cheaper than something like an eNiro.
Ionity and the (open to all) Tesla superchargers are off-limits, else you're well catered for. Instavolt, MFG, Osprey, Shell, BP, Geniepoint, Podpoint and many others are still putting CHAdeMO on every unit. Gridserve have said they'll keep a ratio which generally works out fine. In 5 years who knows? There's way too many CHAdeMO cars and vans out there to ignore, even if the sales of new EVs are a vast majority CCS. The Leaf was the 5th best selling EV in 2022, and 4th the year before.
With more range in the e+ you can be a lot more choosy about where to stop, and often that's where you fancy a break rather than the car needing one. It makes it really easy to plan around the bigger hubs or more favorable spots - I know I can make it to Bristol if I'm heading west (or the nice farm shop just by Swindon junction with 4 Instavolts), or Markham Moor if I'm heading north, or Corley services then the MFG at the Wigan junction if I'm heading NW. I generally avoided services before in the Golf as CCS provision was awful, and after years of ecotricity monopoly many of the other networks have scooped up loads of good sites just off motorway junctions.
The other part to this is a future CCS conversion. Muxsan already have a commercial one (pricey though at roughly £3k), but there are other projects on the go to achieve the same at lower cost. The deal on offer for my car was good enough that I thought even if I spent £3k in a few years time to get a conversion done it would still be cheaper than something like an eNiro.
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 30th August 16:24
sixor8 said:
Can a Leaf be plugged into public chargers and charge at a lower rate, say 7kW (type 2 I think?) I presume ChAdeMO is only for fast charging?
Forgive my ignorance, I know they can charged from a 3 pin socket at home (it's why I would consider one) but if out and about and needing a top up, a 3kW rate wouldn't be ideal.
For the Mk1 Leafs, standard equipment is a 3.3kW onboard charger which would set your rate in that case. Some of them have an optional 6.6 kW onboard charger upgrade, which would obviously give you ~double the rate.Forgive my ignorance, I know they can charged from a 3 pin socket at home (it's why I would consider one) but if out and about and needing a top up, a 3kW rate wouldn't be ideal.
sixor8 said:
Can a Leaf be plugged into public chargers and charge at a lower rate, say 7kW (type 2 I think?) I presume ChAdeMO is only for fast charging?
Forgive my ignorance, I know they can charged from a 3 pin socket at home (it's why I would consider one) but if out and about and needing a top up, a 3kW rate wouldn't be ideal.
For the mk2 It can, type 2 for home and destination chargers at 6.6kwForgive my ignorance, I know they can charged from a 3 pin socket at home (it's why I would consider one) but if out and about and needing a top up, a 3kW rate wouldn't be ideal.
Edited by sixor8 on Wednesday 30th August 15:04
, ChAdeMO for fast charging when out and about
Uncle boshy said:
For the mk2 It can, type 2 for home and destination chargers at 6.6kw
, ChAdeMO for fast charging when out and about
And also for those Mk1s which have the optional 6.6kw onboard charger fitted, eg "6.6 kW on Board Charger - Allowing Home and Public Charging at 32AMP" , ChAdeMO for fast charging when out and about
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305097...
The type 1 socket isn't really a problem for public charging as the vast majority of public AC points are type 2 socket, so you just use a type 2 to type 1 cable. Obviously it's slow if you only have a 3.3kW OBC.
Tethered type 2 AC would be an issue but these are mostly only on 43kW chargers which you'd be silly to pay for when you're only going to use 6.6kW max.
Tethered type 2 AC would be an issue but these are mostly only on 43kW chargers which you'd be silly to pay for when you're only going to use 6.6kW max.
Somewhere around that, yes.
The smaller battery Ioniq actually charges quite a bit faster (over 60kW until about 80%) so can cover long distances quicker than the bigger battery one - if the range suits your everyday journeys and you don't mind more but shorter stops it's the one to have IMO.
eg on ABRP - London-Newcastle is 6 hours and 2 charging stops (32 and 43 minutes) in the 38kWh one. In the 28kWh one, three stops of 16, 19 and 15 minutes, saving 26 minutes over the drive.
Was my plan to get one of those when our egolf went back, but then secondhand prices went mental and the deal on the Leaf was good.
The smaller battery Ioniq actually charges quite a bit faster (over 60kW until about 80%) so can cover long distances quicker than the bigger battery one - if the range suits your everyday journeys and you don't mind more but shorter stops it's the one to have IMO.
eg on ABRP - London-Newcastle is 6 hours and 2 charging stops (32 and 43 minutes) in the 38kWh one. In the 28kWh one, three stops of 16, 19 and 15 minutes, saving 26 minutes over the drive.
Was my plan to get one of those when our egolf went back, but then secondhand prices went mental and the deal on the Leaf was good.
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