Discussion
Morning everyone,
today I took part in the Our Future Health study. They take various measurements including blood pressure and cholesterol.
I'm 41 years old and my total cholesterol is 8.28 - this seems quite a bit higher than the BHF recommendations.
Do any of you have an expert view on that level in a 41 year old man? Is it excessive, do I need to change my diet? Are there any other recommendations you'd make?
Or do I just ignore it? I'm guessing not.
today I took part in the Our Future Health study. They take various measurements including blood pressure and cholesterol.
I'm 41 years old and my total cholesterol is 8.28 - this seems quite a bit higher than the BHF recommendations.
Do any of you have an expert view on that level in a 41 year old man? Is it excessive, do I need to change my diet? Are there any other recommendations you'd make?
Or do I just ignore it? I'm guessing not.
43 here, so hopefully relevant.
Lose weight, cut out refined sugars entirely and most carbs. Cook from whole foods. Fast intermittently (6 or 8 hr eating window) I do from 12pm to 8pm as my eating window.
About 8 months ago I received a medical that showed 142 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) fasting blood sugar (defined as diabetic) and 226 mg/dl (12.5 mmol/l) defined as borderline risk as well as elevated blood pressure.
Went mostly Carnivore / Keto. Lots of red meat, lots of eggs and fatty foods. Weights 3-4 times a week and light cardio 5-8k steps + swimming 2 x a week. Cut out refined sugars by about 95%, cut down on carbs initiall.
Dropped from 107kg at my heaviest to about 97kg now. At ±20% body fat and intend on bringing that down to about 15%.
Results a few weeks ago (convert mmol/L to mg/dL mulitply by 18)
82.8 mg/dl Fasting Blood Sugar
88.2 mg/dl Cholestorol
The original studies on LDL/HDL causes of Heart Disease have been seriously challenged in recent years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/) and studies do show that too low cholesterol is far more dangerous for longevity than too high cholesterol in isolation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8436563/)
Control of systemic inflammation is far more important than cholesterol levels (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5986484/). The Med diet being a prime example. As well as the Longevity of people in countries like Japan.
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”. - Hypocrates
Lose weight, cut out refined sugars entirely and most carbs. Cook from whole foods. Fast intermittently (6 or 8 hr eating window) I do from 12pm to 8pm as my eating window.
About 8 months ago I received a medical that showed 142 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) fasting blood sugar (defined as diabetic) and 226 mg/dl (12.5 mmol/l) defined as borderline risk as well as elevated blood pressure.
Went mostly Carnivore / Keto. Lots of red meat, lots of eggs and fatty foods. Weights 3-4 times a week and light cardio 5-8k steps + swimming 2 x a week. Cut out refined sugars by about 95%, cut down on carbs initiall.
Dropped from 107kg at my heaviest to about 97kg now. At ±20% body fat and intend on bringing that down to about 15%.
Results a few weeks ago (convert mmol/L to mg/dL mulitply by 18)
82.8 mg/dl Fasting Blood Sugar
88.2 mg/dl Cholestorol
The original studies on LDL/HDL causes of Heart Disease have been seriously challenged in recent years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/) and studies do show that too low cholesterol is far more dangerous for longevity than too high cholesterol in isolation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8436563/)
Control of systemic inflammation is far more important than cholesterol levels (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5986484/). The Med diet being a prime example. As well as the Longevity of people in countries like Japan.
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”. - Hypocrates
RichTT said:
43 here, so hopefully relevant.
Lose weight, cut out refined sugars entirely and most carbs. Cook from whole foods. Fast intermittently (6 or 8 hr eating window) I do from 12pm to 8pm as my eating window.
About 8 months ago I received a medical that showed 142 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) fasting blood sugar (defined as diabetic) and 226 mg/dl (12.5 mmol/l) defined as borderline risk as well as elevated blood pressure.
Went mostly Carnivore / Keto. Lots of red meat, lots of eggs and fatty foods. Weights 3-4 times a week and light cardio 5-8k steps + swimming 2 x a week. Cut out refined sugars by about 95%, cut down on carbs initiall.
Dropped from 107kg at my heaviest to about 97kg now. At ±20% body fat and intend on bringing that down to about 15%.
Results a few weeks ago (convert mmol/L to mg/dL mulitply by 18)
82.8 mg/dl Fasting Blood Sugar
88.2 mg/dl Cholestorol
The original studies on LDL/HDL causes of Heart Disease have been seriously challenged in recent years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/) and studies do show that too low cholesterol is far more dangerous for longevity than too high cholesterol in isolation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8436563/)
Control of systemic inflammation is far more important than cholesterol levels (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5986484/). The Med diet being a prime example. As well as the Longevity of people in countries like Japan.
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”. - Hypocrates
thanks - so you're not worried about cholesterol then? Lose weight, cut out refined sugars entirely and most carbs. Cook from whole foods. Fast intermittently (6 or 8 hr eating window) I do from 12pm to 8pm as my eating window.
About 8 months ago I received a medical that showed 142 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) fasting blood sugar (defined as diabetic) and 226 mg/dl (12.5 mmol/l) defined as borderline risk as well as elevated blood pressure.
Went mostly Carnivore / Keto. Lots of red meat, lots of eggs and fatty foods. Weights 3-4 times a week and light cardio 5-8k steps + swimming 2 x a week. Cut out refined sugars by about 95%, cut down on carbs initiall.
Dropped from 107kg at my heaviest to about 97kg now. At ±20% body fat and intend on bringing that down to about 15%.
Results a few weeks ago (convert mmol/L to mg/dL mulitply by 18)
82.8 mg/dl Fasting Blood Sugar
88.2 mg/dl Cholestorol
The original studies on LDL/HDL causes of Heart Disease have been seriously challenged in recent years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/) and studies do show that too low cholesterol is far more dangerous for longevity than too high cholesterol in isolation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8436563/)
Control of systemic inflammation is far more important than cholesterol levels (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5986484/). The Med diet being a prime example. As well as the Longevity of people in countries like Japan.
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”. - Hypocrates
I was 86kg, waist circumference was slightly too big so I could probably do with losing a few KG. Blood pressure was just slightly above where you'd like it ideally but not excessive. Triglycerides were spot on.
Should I be consulting the GP with a view to getting on atorvastatin?
PeteinSQ said:
thanks - so you're not worried about cholesterol then?
I was 86kg, waist circumference was slightly too big so I could probably do with losing a few KG. Blood pressure was just slightly above where you'd like it ideally but not excessive. Triglycerides were spot on.
Should I be consulting the GP with a view to getting on atorvastatin?
“Serious atorvastatin side effects are rare but possible. They include liver, kidney, and severe muscle damage. Atorvastatin can also cause blood glucose (sugar) levels to rise, increasing the risk of diabetes in certain people. But for most people prescribed atorvastatin, its benefits outweigh this risk.”I was 86kg, waist circumference was slightly too big so I could probably do with losing a few KG. Blood pressure was just slightly above where you'd like it ideally but not excessive. Triglycerides were spot on.
Should I be consulting the GP with a view to getting on atorvastatin?
So you could take atorvastatin, or you could look at what you eat and drink and how you sleep. The pill is easy but has consequences. Changing lifestyle is a lot harder but no health downside.
mikiec said:
“Serious atorvastatin side effects are rare but possible. They include liver, kidney, and severe muscle damage. Atorvastatin can also cause blood glucose (sugar) levels to rise, increasing the risk of diabetes in certain people. But for most people prescribed atorvastatin, its benefits outweigh this risk.”
So you could take atorvastatin, or you could look at what you eat and drink and how you sleep. The pill is easy but has consequences. Changing lifestyle is a lot harder but no health downside.
From what I've read 85% of cholesterol is made by your liver. Does diet play a role in how much it manufactures? So you could take atorvastatin, or you could look at what you eat and drink and how you sleep. The pill is easy but has consequences. Changing lifestyle is a lot harder but no health downside.
PeteinSQ said:
thanks - so you're not worried about cholesterol then?
I was 86kg, waist circumference was slightly too big so I could probably do with losing a few KG. Blood pressure was just slightly above where you'd like it ideally but not excessive. Triglycerides were spot on.
Should I be consulting the GP with a view to getting on atorvastatin?
Absolutely not in the slightest. Avoid medication if you can, the urge for people to jump on to taking Statins when any issues can be fixed with diet and exercise really is the heart of the problem with modern medicine. I was 86kg, waist circumference was slightly too big so I could probably do with losing a few KG. Blood pressure was just slightly above where you'd like it ideally but not excessive. Triglycerides were spot on.
Should I be consulting the GP with a view to getting on atorvastatin?
RichTT said:
Absolutely not in the slightest. Avoid medication if you can, the urge for people to jump on to taking Statins when any issues can be fixed with diet and exercise really is the heart of the problem with modern medicine.
Can you fix it with diet if 85% is made by your body though? These are genuine questions btw. I happen to work for one of the largest statin manufacturers in the world so my livelihood depends on everyone taking them... PeteinSQ said:
Can you fix it with diet if 85% is made by your body though? These are genuine questions btw. I happen to work for one of the largest statin manufacturers in the world so my livelihood depends on everyone taking them...
What’s the body like, overweight, lacks exercise and sleep? These are the things that lead to poor health, sort them out and see if cholesterol is an issue at that point.
There are enough studies showing high cholesterol can be an indicator of issues but simply lowering cholesterol via statins won’t necessarily reduce heart attack risk but can bring along a lot of other issues. But hey it’s easy to take a pill…
PeteinSQ said:
Can you fix it with diet if 85% is made by your body though? These are genuine questions btw. I happen to work for one of the largest statin manufacturers in the world so my livelihood depends on everyone taking them...
If the pharmaceutical industry told everyone that 99% of preventable health issues are caused by bad diet and lack of activity and poor lifestyle choices how long would they remain in business?If the majority of the food industry told everyone that they're ultra processed manufactured seed oil garbage was bad for them and just eat seasonal fruit, veg, meat and fish, how long would they last as a business?
RichTT said:
43 here, so hopefully relevant.
Lose weight, cut out refined sugars entirely and most carbs. Cook from whole foods. Fast intermittently (6 or 8 hr eating window) I do from 12pm to 8pm as my eating window.
About 8 months ago I received a medical that showed 142 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) fasting blood sugar (defined as diabetic) and 226 mg/dl (12.5 mmol/l) defined as borderline risk as well as elevated blood pressure.
Went mostly Carnivore / Keto. Lots of red meat, lots of eggs and fatty foods. Weights 3-4 times a week and light cardio 5-8k steps + swimming 2 x a week. Cut out refined sugars by about 95%, cut down on carbs initiall.
Dropped from 107kg at my heaviest to about 97kg now. At ±20% body fat and intend on bringing that down to about 15%.
Results a few weeks ago (convert mmol/L to mg/dL mulitply by 18)
82.8 mg/dl Fasting Blood Sugar
88.2 mg/dl Cholestorol
The original studies on LDL/HDL causes of Heart Disease have been seriously challenged in recent years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/) and studies do show that too low cholesterol is far more dangerous for longevity than too high cholesterol in isolation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8436563/)
Control of systemic inflammation is far more important than cholesterol levels (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5986484/). The Med diet being a prime example. As well as the Longevity of people in countries like Japan.
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”. - Hypocrates
Agreed. Mine was 7.6 total cholesterol 4 years ago. Was offered stating. Declined. Lose weight, cut out refined sugars entirely and most carbs. Cook from whole foods. Fast intermittently (6 or 8 hr eating window) I do from 12pm to 8pm as my eating window.
About 8 months ago I received a medical that showed 142 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/l) fasting blood sugar (defined as diabetic) and 226 mg/dl (12.5 mmol/l) defined as borderline risk as well as elevated blood pressure.
Went mostly Carnivore / Keto. Lots of red meat, lots of eggs and fatty foods. Weights 3-4 times a week and light cardio 5-8k steps + swimming 2 x a week. Cut out refined sugars by about 95%, cut down on carbs initiall.
Dropped from 107kg at my heaviest to about 97kg now. At ±20% body fat and intend on bringing that down to about 15%.
Results a few weeks ago (convert mmol/L to mg/dL mulitply by 18)
82.8 mg/dl Fasting Blood Sugar
88.2 mg/dl Cholestorol
The original studies on LDL/HDL causes of Heart Disease have been seriously challenged in recent years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/) and studies do show that too low cholesterol is far more dangerous for longevity than too high cholesterol in isolation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8436563/)
Control of systemic inflammation is far more important than cholesterol levels (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5986484/). The Med diet being a prime example. As well as the Longevity of people in countries like Japan.
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”. - Hypocrates
Started intermittent fasting. Cut carbs, esp refined sugars. Lost 24kg in weight. Started exercising 5-6 days per week.
Had a retest 4 months later. Was 4.4 total cholesterol.
No need for statins
That's encouraging, I hadn't realised that carbs had anything to do with cholesterol, I thought it was to do with fat?
What exercise are you doing? I was a runner until a few years ago when I got problems with my Achilles. I've stopped running and do weights but that has seen a decline in cardio fitness. I've no idea what my cholesterol was before as this is the first time it has been tested.
What exercise are you doing? I was a runner until a few years ago when I got problems with my Achilles. I've stopped running and do weights but that has seen a decline in cardio fitness. I've no idea what my cholesterol was before as this is the first time it has been tested.
PeteinSQ said:
That's encouraging, I hadn't realised that carbs had anything to do with cholesterol, I thought it was to do with fat?
What exercise are you doing? I was a runner until a few years ago when I got problems with my Achilles. I've stopped running and do weights but that has seen a decline in cardio fitness. I've no idea what my cholesterol was before as this is the first time it has been tested.
Highly processed carbohydrates play a role in high cholesterol. Carbohydrates give your body energy, but getting more than 60% of your daily calories from carbohydrates can increase your cholesterol levels because your liver thinks it's time to make more cholesterol. As you've said before, your body already makes cholesterol. What exercise are you doing? I was a runner until a few years ago when I got problems with my Achilles. I've stopped running and do weights but that has seen a decline in cardio fitness. I've no idea what my cholesterol was before as this is the first time it has been tested.
Also, cut out seed oils (aka veg oils) as much as humanly possible. Stick to butter, tallow, olive oil, ghee and avacado oil for any cooking. Once you start understanding how bad 'healthy' oils are for you in actuality you would do best to avoid them. Then once you understand that you start looking at ingredient lists on food packages and realise how bad they are for you.
I eat what most would consider a high 'fat' diet. I scramble and fry eggs with tallow, have butter on everything, and eat lots of red meat. Very little carbs, almost no sugar.
As for cardio, once you sort out diet, light cardio is more than fine. Aim for 10k steps a day, perhaps some hiking or swimming a few times a week.
The pharma industry are desperate to get everyone onto statins for obvious reasons. The issue is the belief that statins’ ability to lower cholesterol test numbers results in positive outcomes. It doesn’t. It’s complicated.
Everyone is terrified of LDL because it’s termed "bad cholesterol". There’s nothing bad about LDL, it’s part of the body’s natural functioning. The problems come when LDL gets damaged through oxidation and glycation. When LDL particles get damaged like this the liver receptors don’t recognise them any more, so the damaged LDL particles simply float round the body unwanted looking for a home. Statins make the liver panic and try to recover as much LDL as it can. So what happens is the proportion of damaged LDL in the blood actually goes up (the number doesn’t go up, just the %). So the doc and patient see the lower LDL reading and think great. This has done nothing to solve the potential issue of atherosclerosis and heart disease from the damaged LDL particles.
You will also see HDL described as "good". This isn’t correct either. Too high an HDL reading can be an issue too. But in both cases the readings are merely the outcome of what we are doing to ourselves. Cause and effect. In both cases the all-cause mortality graphs are U-shaped rather than straight line linear, as are deaths from heart disease, stroke, etc. Same with salt. Being in the middle seems to be the place to be when mortality is looked at over and over again.
That’s not to rule out statins completely. They have effects other than lowering LDL. They are anti-inflammatory, so that alone can help some people. It’s no secret that the one group that statins do show improvements for is the cohort of men over 50 who have already had a heart attack. For everyone else they do pretty much naff all except fool people into thinking they can carry on eating crap cos they’ve "got their cholesterol sorted". They can increase occurrence of T2 diabetes, not good. There is a huge amount of info on all this now. You could do worse than start by searching for oxLDL. I can link you to some published medical literature articles on the U-shaped aspect of it if you’re interested. There can be issues around certain elements of cholesterol, don’t get me wrong, but they are specific issues. I personally am going to get tested for LP(a) soon. That is hereditary and I’d like to know where I stand on that, not that much can be done.
Everyone is terrified of LDL because it’s termed "bad cholesterol". There’s nothing bad about LDL, it’s part of the body’s natural functioning. The problems come when LDL gets damaged through oxidation and glycation. When LDL particles get damaged like this the liver receptors don’t recognise them any more, so the damaged LDL particles simply float round the body unwanted looking for a home. Statins make the liver panic and try to recover as much LDL as it can. So what happens is the proportion of damaged LDL in the blood actually goes up (the number doesn’t go up, just the %). So the doc and patient see the lower LDL reading and think great. This has done nothing to solve the potential issue of atherosclerosis and heart disease from the damaged LDL particles.
You will also see HDL described as "good". This isn’t correct either. Too high an HDL reading can be an issue too. But in both cases the readings are merely the outcome of what we are doing to ourselves. Cause and effect. In both cases the all-cause mortality graphs are U-shaped rather than straight line linear, as are deaths from heart disease, stroke, etc. Same with salt. Being in the middle seems to be the place to be when mortality is looked at over and over again.
That’s not to rule out statins completely. They have effects other than lowering LDL. They are anti-inflammatory, so that alone can help some people. It’s no secret that the one group that statins do show improvements for is the cohort of men over 50 who have already had a heart attack. For everyone else they do pretty much naff all except fool people into thinking they can carry on eating crap cos they’ve "got their cholesterol sorted". They can increase occurrence of T2 diabetes, not good. There is a huge amount of info on all this now. You could do worse than start by searching for oxLDL. I can link you to some published medical literature articles on the U-shaped aspect of it if you’re interested. There can be issues around certain elements of cholesterol, don’t get me wrong, but they are specific issues. I personally am going to get tested for LP(a) soon. That is hereditary and I’d like to know where I stand on that, not that much can be done.
RichTT said:
PeteinSQ said:
That's encouraging, I hadn't realised that carbs had anything to do with cholesterol, I thought it was to do with fat?
What exercise are you doing? I was a runner until a few years ago when I got problems with my Achilles. I've stopped running and do weights but that has seen a decline in cardio fitness. I've no idea what my cholesterol was before as this is the first time it has been tested.
Highly processed carbohydrates play a role in high cholesterol. Carbohydrates give your body energy, but getting more than 60% of your daily calories from carbohydrates can increase your cholesterol levels because your liver thinks it's time to make more cholesterol. As you've said before, your body already makes cholesterol. What exercise are you doing? I was a runner until a few years ago when I got problems with my Achilles. I've stopped running and do weights but that has seen a decline in cardio fitness. I've no idea what my cholesterol was before as this is the first time it has been tested.
Also, cut out seed oils (aka veg oils) as much as humanly possible. Stick to butter, tallow, olive oil, ghee and avacado oil for any cooking. Once you start understanding how bad 'healthy' oils are for you in actuality you would do best to avoid them. Then once you understand that you start looking at ingredient lists on food packages and realise how bad they are for you.
I eat what most would consider a high 'fat' diet. I scramble and fry eggs with tallow, have butter on everything, and eat lots of red meat. Very little carbs, almost no sugar.
As for cardio, once you sort out diet, light cardio is more than fine. Aim for 10k steps a day, perhaps some hiking or swimming a few times a week.
I have been on stations for a couple of years. I am 49 and also T1D.
My cholesterol was always been slightly high, at around 5.2, fro. The age of 20.
I have absolutely no side effects from the statins, and my cholesterol has halved.
I realise that people have different views about statins, but I trust my doctors to give me the best medical advice. It's kept me alive so far.....otherwise I would have died 42 years ago or blind 17 years ago.....
My cholesterol was always been slightly high, at around 5.2, fro. The age of 20.
I have absolutely no side effects from the statins, and my cholesterol has halved.
I realise that people have different views about statins, but I trust my doctors to give me the best medical advice. It's kept me alive so far.....otherwise I would have died 42 years ago or blind 17 years ago.....
I've been on and off statins for nearly 30 years, now 52. I've never had any issues, although like anything, I'm sure some do.
I have a pretty clean diet, exercise and BF around 15% at the moment. Unfortunately, I also have familial hypercholesterolemia courtesy of my mother. If i'm not on them, mine goes into the teens. Whilst I'm sure some can make lifestyle and dietary changes to help, that's not a silver bullet for all.
I have a pretty clean diet, exercise and BF around 15% at the moment. Unfortunately, I also have familial hypercholesterolemia courtesy of my mother. If i'm not on them, mine goes into the teens. Whilst I'm sure some can make lifestyle and dietary changes to help, that's not a silver bullet for all.
There's a very informative podcast on Youtube by Dr Jesse Chappus and Dr Robert Lustig about Insulin Resistance and Cholesterol (mainly about Insulin Resistance but includes other stuff too), it's long at about 1hr 30 but was so interesting that the time just zoomed by and it takes a lot to keep me concentrated for that long, I've watched it twice now to pick up on things that I didn't understand the first time round.
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