Discussion
Evening All,
Been reading this EV Forum for a while but first time posting.
I don't think I am in a unique position; two car family, one SUV (LR Disco Sport) for all the family travel, schools runs etc and my workhorse saloon diesel. My Insignia I will run in to the ground, it costs me a pittance to run in terms of fuel and ownership so she is destined to stay with me for some time yet, but the Disco...
The iPace is the EV of choice (but open to suggestion!). Used now they can be picked up for as little as 25K (Part Ex on the Disco likely around 18K currently). Our driving fits the use case for it; charging almost exclusively from home, mostly short journeys (school etc.) and seldom in excess of 200 miles on any single journey.
17p per mile vs 5p (EV Tariff dependant of course), £240 VED on the Disco vs (currently) £0 on the Jag.
Are we reaching a point where the used EV market is starting to become attainable for normal folk (I consider myself normal!) and the economics of EV ownership over a dirty great 4x4 Diesel are starting to tip the balance?
Appreciate I've not covered all angles here (Insurance premiums, warranties, consumables etc) but is this the growing concensus or do I need to take the rose tinted glasses off?
I haven't test driven one yet and I think subconsciously that is a deliberate act. If it drives well (and the Disco is something of a boat in the corners especially) it would become a heart over head decision, but wanting it to be a logical decision before I let the emotion of 400hp become part of the process.
Been reading this EV Forum for a while but first time posting.
I don't think I am in a unique position; two car family, one SUV (LR Disco Sport) for all the family travel, schools runs etc and my workhorse saloon diesel. My Insignia I will run in to the ground, it costs me a pittance to run in terms of fuel and ownership so she is destined to stay with me for some time yet, but the Disco...
The iPace is the EV of choice (but open to suggestion!). Used now they can be picked up for as little as 25K (Part Ex on the Disco likely around 18K currently). Our driving fits the use case for it; charging almost exclusively from home, mostly short journeys (school etc.) and seldom in excess of 200 miles on any single journey.
17p per mile vs 5p (EV Tariff dependant of course), £240 VED on the Disco vs (currently) £0 on the Jag.
Are we reaching a point where the used EV market is starting to become attainable for normal folk (I consider myself normal!) and the economics of EV ownership over a dirty great 4x4 Diesel are starting to tip the balance?
Appreciate I've not covered all angles here (Insurance premiums, warranties, consumables etc) but is this the growing concensus or do I need to take the rose tinted glasses off?
I haven't test driven one yet and I think subconsciously that is a deliberate act. If it drives well (and the Disco is something of a boat in the corners especially) it would become a heart over head decision, but wanting it to be a logical decision before I let the emotion of 400hp become part of the process.
I had one for three years. Providing the range meets your general requirements, it's about the best driving EV you can buy other than a Taycan, extremely powerful and as a second hand buy, spectacular value at this point.
Compared to the Disco, you won't believe how planted it is on the road, virtually no bodyroll at all.
I would say it's worth spending more going in, the HSE spec would be ideal as it added a lot of technology. Dynamically I would say the most important two options are the air suspension and the adaptive damping - both of which together improve the handling and comfort to a worthwhile degree. The air suspension also allows you to lift the car up which is very useful if you ever go down deeply rutted roads or through very deep fjords. Regarding off road in general, you'll recognise the same terrain response stuff (spec dependent as to exact functions) as the Disco, all models will have hill start, ascent and decent constant speed control.
Personally because of the unknown ageing foibles of the car, combined with the very well known reliability issues with many JLR cars, I would want to keep a used example covered with a decent aftermarket warranty - repair costs will be expensive if anything fundamental lets go.
I think it's very likely if you drive one, you'll fall for it. But to get the best out of it as an all rounder, make sure the spec covers all the toys you might appreciate longer term and don't underestimate the value of the air+adaptive suspension. Whatever extra you pay for a well spec'd car today, you'll get a chunk of that money back eventually when you sell it.
Anything specific you want to know, just ask!
ETA: Yes to your question about a financial tipping point. It'll cost you next to nothing to run on a decent EV tariff, even if you very frequently enjoy the power. So much less than a Disco to run in terms of fuel/tax/brakes/fluids/maintenance.
Compared to the Disco, you won't believe how planted it is on the road, virtually no bodyroll at all.
I would say it's worth spending more going in, the HSE spec would be ideal as it added a lot of technology. Dynamically I would say the most important two options are the air suspension and the adaptive damping - both of which together improve the handling and comfort to a worthwhile degree. The air suspension also allows you to lift the car up which is very useful if you ever go down deeply rutted roads or through very deep fjords. Regarding off road in general, you'll recognise the same terrain response stuff (spec dependent as to exact functions) as the Disco, all models will have hill start, ascent and decent constant speed control.
Personally because of the unknown ageing foibles of the car, combined with the very well known reliability issues with many JLR cars, I would want to keep a used example covered with a decent aftermarket warranty - repair costs will be expensive if anything fundamental lets go.
I think it's very likely if you drive one, you'll fall for it. But to get the best out of it as an all rounder, make sure the spec covers all the toys you might appreciate longer term and don't underestimate the value of the air+adaptive suspension. Whatever extra you pay for a well spec'd car today, you'll get a chunk of that money back eventually when you sell it.
Anything specific you want to know, just ask!
ETA: Yes to your question about a financial tipping point. It'll cost you next to nothing to run on a decent EV tariff, even if you very frequently enjoy the power. So much less than a Disco to run in terms of fuel/tax/brakes/fluids/maintenance.
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 26th July 20:07
I test drove an I-Pace and an Audo Etron 55 (before deciding on a Tesla Model 3 Performance) back in 2019. The Etron was a great big lardy lump of an SUV (but very comfortable). The I-pace was the absolute opposite - I really enjoyed it.
I think they are a bit of a bargain, but as has been said, they are older tech now so shorter journeys are their forte. The later cars with the Pivi Pro system are quite a bit more expensive, but as I believe you can use Carplay and Android Auto on the earlier cars anyway, I'm not sure it matters enough to pay a few extra grand for it.
Test drive one and I'll think you will be very pleasantly surprised.
I think they are a bit of a bargain, but as has been said, they are older tech now so shorter journeys are their forte. The later cars with the Pivi Pro system are quite a bit more expensive, but as I believe you can use Carplay and Android Auto on the earlier cars anyway, I'm not sure it matters enough to pay a few extra grand for it.
Test drive one and I'll think you will be very pleasantly surprised.
SmithCorona said:
A lot of people will say it charges slowly, which, compared to newer evs, it does. But it handles and rides beautifully when specced well. Seek out one with air suspension and adaptive dynamics.
Another fan on the air suspension and adaptive damping 
Tbh I only charged mine away from home a handful of times and by the time I had a pee and some lunch the charge was always enough to complete the journey. At home the charging speed thing was lost on me - it simply didn't matter if it took 7 hours or 14 hours, I don't even know how long a full charge did take, because I was inside sipping a glass of wine or asleep..
Fastlane said:
I test drove an I-Pace and an Audo Etron 55 (before deciding on a Tesla Model 3 Performance) back in 2019. The Etron was a great big lardy lump of an SUV (but very comfortable). The I-pace was the absolute opposite - I really enjoyed it.
I think they are a bit of a bargain, but as has been said, they are older tech now so shorter journeys are their forte. The later cars with the Pivi Pro system are quite a bit more expensive, but as I believe you can use Carplay and Android Auto on the earlier cars anyway, I'm not sure it matters enough to pay a few extra grand for it.
Test drive one and I'll think you will be very pleasantly surprised.
You can use android auto and carplay on the earlier infotainment.I think they are a bit of a bargain, but as has been said, they are older tech now so shorter journeys are their forte. The later cars with the Pivi Pro system are quite a bit more expensive, but as I believe you can use Carplay and Android Auto on the earlier cars anyway, I'm not sure it matters enough to pay a few extra grand for it.
Test drive one and I'll think you will be very pleasantly surprised.
I wouldn't say shorter journeys only, I frequently approached the very approximate 200 real world mile range (without driving like vicar) on a single trip. I also didn't notice any range deg over the three years from new. Depends what you define as 'short' really.
Mikebentley said:
Mustang Mach E is similar size and bargains to be had. I personally worry the iPace is getting a bit long in the tooth now.
That's such a different class of car though, and far less capable.I really wanted another iPace to replace mine that was leased - but at the time there were no decent lease deals for the same spec so I reluctantly looked at all other options and ended up with an i4. The charging speed and range thing simply isn't an issue if you charge at home and the range is 'enough'. In all other regards the iPace remains ahead of most other options in terms of design and abilty.
Liam_92 said:
Are we reaching a point where the used EV market is starting to become attainable for normal folk (I consider myself normal!) and the economics of EV ownership over a dirty great 4x4 Diesel are starting to tip the balance?
Yes, I think so. It was always going to happen once the first generation of usable EVs depreciated, the recent drop in EV values has just brought that point forwards a bit.I would imagine the likely maintenance cost would be lower than the Disco Sport too.
In terms of alternatives, the Kia Niro 64kWh is cheaper and has a bit longer range, but I imagine the Jag is better in every other regard.
TheDeuce said:
That's such a different class of car though, and far less capable.
It's not really though is it? The Mach-E GT has a 98kWh battery, does 0-62 in < 4 seconds, is a similar size, the quality isn't far off the Jag and it costs £75k which is bang in the middle of the iPace SE/HSE price. It's also more efficient and will charge at 150kW. On the broader question of big EV SUV v Diesel, unless you are doing a hell of lot of long distance trips you'd surely have to be nuts to buy the ICE car with such a huge price difference?
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 26th July 20:52
Unless I am going crazy, one of those is a V8 petrol and one of those is a related but not identical electric car. And I would, personally, pick the petrol.
As for Mustang vs I-pace, one is a genuinely forward thinking piece of design which was way ahead of its time to market, the other is relatively generic and misnamed.
As for Mustang vs I-pace, one is a genuinely forward thinking piece of design which was way ahead of its time to market, the other is relatively generic and misnamed.
After the Taycan - as said above - the best EV to drive.
Mine has been faultless for 10k and 12 months. Yes it charges slower than later cars but I have only used a public charger 3 times since I have had it.
Jag dealers not the best, but don't regret it. And they are bargains at the moment. But avoid early pre Pivi Pro cars for best experience.
As for suspension, mine is coil and 20s. I am wary of air due to JLR's reputation. Ride and handling on coils is excellent. Typical Jaguar. Air is probably better still, but...
Mine has been faultless for 10k and 12 months. Yes it charges slower than later cars but I have only used a public charger 3 times since I have had it.
Jag dealers not the best, but don't regret it. And they are bargains at the moment. But avoid early pre Pivi Pro cars for best experience.
As for suspension, mine is coil and 20s. I am wary of air due to JLR's reputation. Ride and handling on coils is excellent. Typical Jaguar. Air is probably better still, but...
I-Pace owner (actually a salary sacrifice leaser)…. Only had it for six months but still happy that it’s the best car I’ve had for 95% of things I use it for.
I don’t have the air suspension or adaptive dampers but, with the caveat that I haven’t driven one with them fitted, I think the ride/handling is great so I wouldn’t worry too much. Mine has 20” wheels so this might not apply to the larger options and there’s a fairly significant gap between the tyre and the wheel arches - One of the benefits of the air system is that it can run lower to fix this, but still get jacked up if you needed to. (Doesn’t actually bother me
I’ve not really been affected by the slower charging rate compared to more recent EVs. The I-Pace will theoretically take up to 100KW/Hr I think, but even if they claim to be 120KW or 150KW, most chargers seem to fall short of their headline figures and when I have charged out and about, it has usually been the charger limiting the speed rather than the car.
I don’t have the air suspension or adaptive dampers but, with the caveat that I haven’t driven one with them fitted, I think the ride/handling is great so I wouldn’t worry too much. Mine has 20” wheels so this might not apply to the larger options and there’s a fairly significant gap between the tyre and the wheel arches - One of the benefits of the air system is that it can run lower to fix this, but still get jacked up if you needed to. (Doesn’t actually bother me
I’ve not really been affected by the slower charging rate compared to more recent EVs. The I-Pace will theoretically take up to 100KW/Hr I think, but even if they claim to be 120KW or 150KW, most chargers seem to fall short of their headline figures and when I have charged out and about, it has usually been the charger limiting the speed rather than the car.
SWoll said:
TheDeuce said:
That's such a different class of car though, and far less capable.
It's not really though is it? The Mach-E GT has a 98kWh battery, does 0-62 in < 4 seconds, is a similar size, the quality isn't far off the Jag and it costs £75k which is bang in the middle of the iPace SE/HSE price. It's also more efficient and will charge at 150kW. Cheapest on AT are around the £50k mark. The cabin materials and design are a long way short of a luxury car and they don't drive as well. Not saying they're bad but price similarity aside, they're a different class of car.
The only ones in budget would fall so far short of the Jag in general spec/tech/power terms I can't see it being a realistic alternative in this instance.
I've had mine since March this year, it really is one of the best cars I've ever owned, the instant torque is very addictive, and handles far better than anything of its weight and size has any right to. I would echo 'SmithCorona's and TheDeuce's comments as well, if you can find one with Air suspension and adaptive dynamics, it would be worth it, although reading on the forums, the coil spring variant is very impressive as well.
Infotainment wise, I find it fine, I came from an Alfa 1t9 with a 2010 system, so this was a great improvement! I just use Android auto though, or apple car play on the OHs phone, and both work great.
Mine is a base model S, but the original owner specced the air suspension and adaptive ride,and the 20inch wheels, it really does handle well. There's also been times where the raised suspension has come in handy as well. And should get us out of trouble this winter hopefully!
I bought mine as a Jaguar approved used, so got the Pod point, which is very handy to be able to charge at home. I'm on OVO charge any time tariff as well, from my podpoint app, I've set the rates, and it cost £36 For the months driving in May and £26 In June (no external charging) I have done some longer trips in it, but charged at the destination, so it's ready to go home, the slower charging speed has never be an problem with my uses. My range isn't great, but I don't tend to drive it in the most efficient way! And use the pre cooling/heating when ever I can.
There's 28 months on the lease, I'm usually changing cars quite often, but I really have no idea what to replace this with. It may be older tech in the EV world, but nothing else other than a Taycan or E Tron GT interested me.
Infotainment wise, I find it fine, I came from an Alfa 1t9 with a 2010 system, so this was a great improvement! I just use Android auto though, or apple car play on the OHs phone, and both work great.
Mine is a base model S, but the original owner specced the air suspension and adaptive ride,and the 20inch wheels, it really does handle well. There's also been times where the raised suspension has come in handy as well. And should get us out of trouble this winter hopefully!
I bought mine as a Jaguar approved used, so got the Pod point, which is very handy to be able to charge at home. I'm on OVO charge any time tariff as well, from my podpoint app, I've set the rates, and it cost £36 For the months driving in May and £26 In June (no external charging) I have done some longer trips in it, but charged at the destination, so it's ready to go home, the slower charging speed has never be an problem with my uses. My range isn't great, but I don't tend to drive it in the most efficient way! And use the pre cooling/heating when ever I can.
There's 28 months on the lease, I'm usually changing cars quite often, but I really have no idea what to replace this with. It may be older tech in the EV world, but nothing else other than a Taycan or E Tron GT interested me.
Edited by jamesbilluk on Thursday 27th July 02:09
Edited by jamesbilluk on Thursday 27th July 02:10
Edited by jamesbilluk on Thursday 27th July 08:42
I wouldn’t worry about the infotainment, by the way. I know this is what reviewers having to fill space talk about but in reality how much do you really use it, particularly in a car blessed with physical controls for practically everything? And it’s quite well laid out tbh.
The features of the I-Pace that we have that I really like are the top of the line Meridian sound system, the cooled seats, the matrix headlights, and the self-driving. Which translates to sitting back in comfort and having the car do its thing while listening to some tunes. It all seems appropriate for the EV era. And it drives really well if you want to take over the driving.
In the model that we have at least, you will barely ever touch plastic. It’s quite unlike the fleet grade stuff that tends to feature in German cars and I must say I like it a lot.
The features of the I-Pace that we have that I really like are the top of the line Meridian sound system, the cooled seats, the matrix headlights, and the self-driving. Which translates to sitting back in comfort and having the car do its thing while listening to some tunes. It all seems appropriate for the EV era. And it drives really well if you want to take over the driving.
In the model that we have at least, you will barely ever touch plastic. It’s quite unlike the fleet grade stuff that tends to feature in German cars and I must say I like it a lot.
In the last three years I’ve had an Ipace, Audi e-tron Q4, Tesla model Y, Hyundai Kona and now a Taycan. Out of all these, other than the Taycan, the Ipace was by far the best. Nearly as comfortable as my FF Range Rover and nearly as fast as my DBS. It just does everything well and in the 18 months I had it was completely without fault. I initially had it as a short term stop-gap whilst I had a Taycan on order and very nearly cancelled the Porsche to have another.
Edited to add, the Tesla was the worst of the bunch.
Edited to add, the Tesla was the worst of the bunch.
Edited by 4Q on Thursday 27th July 08:29
SmithCorona said:
Unless I am going crazy, one of those is a V8 petrol and one of those is a related but not identical electric car. And I would, personally, pick the petrol.
As for Mustang vs I-pace, one is a genuinely forward thinking piece of design which was way ahead of its time to market, the other is relatively generic and misnamed.
The tron S is from the same manufacturer, is the same size, has the same interior, more performance and will be substantially cheaper to run. If you don't need the range then paying 30% more would seem a rather silly decision, but each to their own.As for Mustang vs I-pace, one is a genuinely forward thinking piece of design which was way ahead of its time to market, the other is relatively generic and misnamed.
And not saying that the Ford is a better car, just that IMHO it isn't in a completely different class of vehicle or hugely less capable as was suggested.
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