E39 M5 vs E46 M3

[Hippea]

Which would likely be the least costly low mileage daily (5k a year)?

I’m not talking fuel or insurance costs etc but in terms of big bills. Which is the most robust?

In general which would you choose?

[survivalist]

They are both pretty susceptible to rust, which would be my number 1 concern with both of them.

Apart from that, it’s the usual consideration of convenience - do people regularly need to access the rear seats?

[Crusoe]

Purely on costs there are more e46 bits out there, two less cylinders (less oil, less spark plugs) and slightly cheaper consumables if it is on the 18s. Having had both the M3 was definitely cheaper to run but I was doing 20k a year. For 5k serviced at a specialist it wouldn't make much difference, would come down to condition and maintenance. Good one of either shouldn't cost much, get one that need work and it can easily get very expensive.

[Crusoe]

Neither of them will like low milage daily [5k over 300 days, 8 miles each way] both take at least 10-15 miles to warm up depending on the weather so you won't even get to rev them out.

[cerb4.5lee]

I'd personally go with the E39 M5 as a daily out of those 2, because I'm not a big fan of the high rev/lower torque engines like what you get in the E46 M3 if it is being used as a daily(I didn't get on with my E92 M3 as a daily for similar reasons).

[Mr Tidy]

Crusoe said:

Neither of them will like low milage daily [5k over 300 days, 8 miles each way] both take at least 10-15 miles to warm up depending on the weather so you won't even get to rev them out.

That's a really good point.

If you never get to chase the red-line you might as well not bother with an M!

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

Crusoe said:

Neither of them will like low milage daily [5k over 300 days, 8 miles each way] both take at least 10-15 miles to warm up depending on the weather so you won't even get to rev them out.

That's a really good point.

If you never get to chase the red-line you might as well not bother with an M!

I'm another one who gets frustrated with waiting for the oil to warm up in the F82 M4 as well. It always feels like it takes an age to me!

I've missed out on some fun with other cars over the years too, because I've still been in the warming up stage where I've had to keep the revs low.

[survivalist]

cerb4.5lee said:

I'd personally go with the E39 M5 as a daily out of those 2, because I'm not a big fan of the high rev/lower torque engines like what you get in the E46 M3 if it is being used as a daily(I didn't get on with my E92 M3 as a daily for similar reasons).

Don’t disagree that the E39 has a more accessible engine, but the S54 is a world apart from the S65. Its torque is more accessible and the gear ratios are more realistic for road use.

[cerb4.5lee]

survivalist said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'd personally go with the E39 M5 as a daily out of those 2, because I'm not a big fan of the high rev/lower torque engines like what you get in the E46 M3 if it is being used as a daily(I didn't get on with my E92 M3 as a daily for similar reasons).

Don’t disagree that the E39 has a more accessible engine, but the S54 is a world apart from the S65. Its torque is more accessible and the gear ratios are more realistic for road use.

I do agree with you in many ways for sure. I always felt that my Z4M actually felt quite peppy at low revs in fairness, however the E46 M3 that I drove didn't at all though in comparison to me. I presume that it was the extra weight in the M3 that was to blame for that though.

[Mr Tidy]

cerb4.5lee said:

Mr Tidy said:

Crusoe said:

Neither of them will like low milage daily [5k over 300 days, 8 miles each way] both take at least 10-15 miles to warm up depending on the weather so you won't even get to rev them out.

That's a really good point.

If you never get to chase the red-line you might as well not bother with an M!

I'm another one who gets frustrated with waiting for the oil to warm up in the F82 M4 as well. It always feels like it takes an age to me!

I've missed out on some fun with other cars over the years too, because I've still been in the warming up stage where I've had to keep the revs low.

I don't get frustrated with it to be fair because I never use my Z4M for short trips, so I know I'll get to let rip before I get home!

Whenever I miss out on some fun I just remind myself what my original rod bearing shells looked like.

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

Whenever I miss out on some fun I just remind myself what my original rod bearing shells looked like.

Spot on.

That is a big reason why I've always babied my cars until they are pretty much fully warmed up as well. Some say that you don't need to do it, but I always have though.

[Crusoe]

cerb4.5lee said:

survivalist said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'd personally go with the E39 M5 as a daily out of those 2, because I'm not a big fan of the high rev/lower torque engines like what you get in the E46 M3 if it is being used as a daily(I didn't get on with my E92 M3 as a daily for similar reasons).

Don’t disagree that the E39 has a more accessible engine, but the S54 is a world apart from the S65. Its torque is more accessible and the gear ratios are more realistic for road use.

I do agree with you in many ways for sure. I always felt that my Z4M actually felt quite peppy at low revs in fairness, however the E46 M3 that I drove didn't at all though in comparison to me. I presume that it was the extra weight in the M3 that was to blame for that though.

Z4M coupe had the lower diff ratios from the CSL so is geared a big lower than the standard m3 which probably makes more difference than the weight difference which isn't as large as you might think [less than a passenger about 75kg] assume the z4m got that diff too.

Edited by Crusoe on Tuesday 25th July 12:13

[GeniusOfLove]

I run old cars a lot, but I think both of these are too old to sensibly be used as a daily now, unless you're happy to continually throw money at them and still see them degrade, they are 20+ years old now and every component that's not worn through miles will be perishing due to age. Best enjoyed as a high days and holidays car if it's a good one, or buy a tired one and run it into the ground on a "managed retreat" basis I think.

Also, if you do get a really nice one and cherish it and love it, remember that Bad Things happen to daily drivers - car park bumps, Honda Jazz's pulling into the side of you, stone chips, bird crap, road salt, vandals, mysterious damage that appears from nowhere. If it's just a 10 year old smoker who cares, if it's a nice example of the best M cars ever made you're going to be gutted.

[andyman_2006]

GeniusOfLove said:

I run old cars a lot, but I think both of these are too old to sensibly be used as a daily now, unless you're happy to continually throw money at them and still see them degrade, they are 20+ years old now and every component that's not worn through miles will be perishing due to age. Best enjoyed as a high days and holidays car if it's a good one, or buy a tired one and run it into the ground on a "managed retreat" basis I think.

Also, if you do get a really nice one and cherish it and love it, remember that Bad Things happen to daily drivers - car park bumps, Honda Jazz's pulling into the side of you, stone chips, bird crap, road salt, vandals, mysterious damage that appears from nowhere. If it's just a 10 year old smoker who cares, if it's a nice example of the best M cars ever made you're going to be gutted.

100% this.

Best thing I ever did was take my E46 M3 out of daily duties back in 2011, and got a lease 1 series through work.

As has been said here, if you want one of these (M5, or M3) to stay nice, it’s high days and holidays.

I get why folk would want to daily them, but as said here bad things happen and they are not cheap cars to daily and keep nice.

Get one for weekend and nice shows or road trips in summer, get an old smoker for the daily duties.

[popeyewhite]

M5. M3 is underpowered and thus disappointing.

[mr mac i]

M3 power is on/ off (could just have been the driver).
M5 much more progressive.

When I worked in a dealership as a 21 year old the DP and insurance wouldn't permit me to drive the M3, I was allowed anything else including the M5 though.

Still have a hankering for and e39, preferably a M5.

[TheAngryDog]

M5. Both my E39s were great dailies.

[bumskins]

popeyewhite said:

M3 is underpowered and thus disappointing.

Could be worse, could sound like an S55/58.

[cerb4.5lee]

bumskins said:

popeyewhite said:

M3 is underpowered and thus disappointing.

Could be worse, could sound like an S55/58.

I find the exhaust noise with the S54 in the E46 M3 very marmite(too tinny and wasp like to my ears), so I don't actually think that there is much in it being fair! The S54 does have a really nice induction noise though, and the induction noise was my favourite bit about the S65 in the E92 M3 that I had as well.

[carbonblack]

Crusoe said:

Neither of them will like low milage daily [5k over 300 days, 8 miles each way] both take at least 10-15 miles to warm up depending on the weather so you won't even get to rev them out.

I don't think an S54 takes 10-15 miles to warm up. Mine is up to 80c oil temperature in about 3-5 miles keeping it under 2.5k rpm, or 10 odd minutes in 10-15c weather. In the winter, longer, but still 10-15 miles seems a bit much to me.

That said, even though mine would be warm (as far as oil/water temp go) I do agree that I'd not want to take mine on an 8 mile trip twice daily. Seems like putting quite a bit of wear on what are now fairly old engines.