In defence of the A90 Toyota Supra
Discussion
It's a slow day at work, and as usual I'm spending far too much time thinking about cars I don't own, but reading the article about the new Lotus Emira 2.0-litre 4 cyliner DCT model costing £81k list, just reminded me of how criminally underrated the Toyota Supra is.
The Supra looks great. It looks great in pictures and it looks great in the flesh. It's low, purposeful and unique without being too try hard sportscar. Drive a Lightning Yellow model down your high street and watch the heads turn.
Of all the engines Toyota could have chosen to use, outside of an M engine or something from Porsche's GT department, they probably picked the best one available. The 6-cylinder, turbocharged B58 is strong, reliable, economical, makes a great noise and has enormous tuning headroom. 440bhp is available from a simple £600 Litchfield remap. 1000bhp tunes have also been done.
Gearbox? Again, Toyota didn't choose to buy in or build their own snappy, bolt action, PDK-esque dual clutch box, but the ZF8 is tried and true. Very fast and very reliable. Failing that, you can even get it with a 6 speed manual!
Think it's just a reskinned Z4 M40i with a roof? Not quite. The suspension, gearbox software and engine reliability thresholds are all Toyota. It also lapped the Nurburgring in 7:52s - a few tenths faster than the previous generation M2 Competition. A full blown M car with a reported 65bhp advantage.
So it's basically an M car, that has been vetted to Toyota standards, but without the slightly distasteful image that BMWs and M cars have these days.
Genuine downsides...?
It's not a Toyota design from the ground up? Correct, but that was never an option. It would have cost billions and people would still have bought a Porsche.
The B58/ZF is a competent drivetrain but not the most exciting? I agree, but looking around what else would you have used?
The interior is frustratingly, obviously, unforgivably BMW parts bin? I agree. I know it should be about the love of the drive, but a £60k 2-seater sports car is an indulgence in most people's world, and they could have repurposed some of the saved development time in the mechanical department with just a little bit of customisation or zing in the interior.
What would you buy instead?
Emira? Cancelled orders coming out of their eye balls. And far too expensive.
A110? Not judging by the sales stats.
Cayman? Despite all the talk about how brilliant its rivals are, this is where people end up.
Shame really. For £60k brand new or £40 odd grand used... It's an absolute bargain.
Come at me
The Supra looks great. It looks great in pictures and it looks great in the flesh. It's low, purposeful and unique without being too try hard sportscar. Drive a Lightning Yellow model down your high street and watch the heads turn.
Of all the engines Toyota could have chosen to use, outside of an M engine or something from Porsche's GT department, they probably picked the best one available. The 6-cylinder, turbocharged B58 is strong, reliable, economical, makes a great noise and has enormous tuning headroom. 440bhp is available from a simple £600 Litchfield remap. 1000bhp tunes have also been done.
Gearbox? Again, Toyota didn't choose to buy in or build their own snappy, bolt action, PDK-esque dual clutch box, but the ZF8 is tried and true. Very fast and very reliable. Failing that, you can even get it with a 6 speed manual!
Think it's just a reskinned Z4 M40i with a roof? Not quite. The suspension, gearbox software and engine reliability thresholds are all Toyota. It also lapped the Nurburgring in 7:52s - a few tenths faster than the previous generation M2 Competition. A full blown M car with a reported 65bhp advantage.
So it's basically an M car, that has been vetted to Toyota standards, but without the slightly distasteful image that BMWs and M cars have these days.
Genuine downsides...?
It's not a Toyota design from the ground up? Correct, but that was never an option. It would have cost billions and people would still have bought a Porsche.
The B58/ZF is a competent drivetrain but not the most exciting? I agree, but looking around what else would you have used?
The interior is frustratingly, obviously, unforgivably BMW parts bin? I agree. I know it should be about the love of the drive, but a £60k 2-seater sports car is an indulgence in most people's world, and they could have repurposed some of the saved development time in the mechanical department with just a little bit of customisation or zing in the interior.
What would you buy instead?
Emira? Cancelled orders coming out of their eye balls. And far too expensive.
A110? Not judging by the sales stats.
Cayman? Despite all the talk about how brilliant its rivals are, this is where people end up.
Shame really. For £60k brand new or £40 odd grand used... It's an absolute bargain.
Come at me
Says a lot about BMW these days when people moan about Toyota using their components...
I guess that the Supra is a Halo car and it is seen as a bit of an insult to a Dynasty.
Anyway, I have said this before, but I have no idea why Toyota didn't just use the Lexus LC500 as a base for the current gen model. Tweak the design to make it more Supra looking, remove all the heavy Luxuries (I am pretty sure you could knock off 100-150kg by getting rid of sound proofing, heavy electric seats, 20 speaker stereo etc). Fit a few lighter parts along with a manual gearbox and more "sporty suspension" and you'd have a fun car.
Just had a look online and some people have rendered my thoughts above...
I guess that the Supra is a Halo car and it is seen as a bit of an insult to a Dynasty.
Anyway, I have said this before, but I have no idea why Toyota didn't just use the Lexus LC500 as a base for the current gen model. Tweak the design to make it more Supra looking, remove all the heavy Luxuries (I am pretty sure you could knock off 100-150kg by getting rid of sound proofing, heavy electric seats, 20 speaker stereo etc). Fit a few lighter parts along with a manual gearbox and more "sporty suspension" and you'd have a fun car.
Just had a look online and some people have rendered my thoughts above...
Edited by MattsCar on Friday 21st July 16:03
rawenghey said:
The Supra looks great.
I can't comment on the drive or the components although my understanding is that it's ultimately a Z4 with Toyota clothes on. But that's probably an ignorant view. I can't agree that it looks good though, I think it's an ugly little car. Unique yes, but then again Susan Boyle was quite unique looking too.
Personally based on looks and that, 'I want to have a go' mindset I'd rather the Alpine A110 but I'm not informed enough to say if they're comparable.
I think they look great and would love to try one. They supposedly had re tuned suspension after the first model year which sorted out a lot of the criticisms the early reviews mentioned.
Dale at BTG did a great video of their modified 4 pot car and it goes bloody well by the looks of things.
Dale at BTG did a great video of their modified 4 pot car and it goes bloody well by the looks of things.
I got one about 5 months ago and loving it so far. They seem to look better in the flesh as photos just don't seem to do it justice. mine has had a stage 1 map and its bloody quick now and that's coming from some very high performance cars in the past , the torque is just so handy in the real world. For 40k there wasn't much else that interested me. Its not perfect for sure but i like the rarity of them and its just good fun with a hint of practicality.
tting dogs because of the stupid rear overhang, and the driver's seat being right above the rear wheel. I'm hoping the layout gives better performance, because it certainly does nothing for the looks.Having gone from LC500 to manual Supra I can tell you there is no way of making the LC anything other than a big GT/coupe - it was designed from the outset to be comfortable, swift and give you lots of good feeling along the way. It was never going to be a Supra or an LFA, it's an almost unique experience in the current car world.
The current Supra is a totally different animal, I find it a lot like an Rx7 in feel and handling - and very little to dislike. (needs to be a bit louder)
Taste is always subjective; but I urge you to get a test drive in a manual to see what you are missing.
The current Supra is a totally different animal, I find it a lot like an Rx7 in feel and handling - and very little to dislike. (needs to be a bit louder)
Taste is always subjective; but I urge you to get a test drive in a manual to see what you are missing.
Slightly biased being a month into ownership, but it’s brilliant. There was nothing else out there for the money which interested me…. Plus a 10 year warranty is not to be sniffed at.
Looks so much better in the flesh than pictures. Front end looks ‘off’ in pictures but works in the flesh.
Looks so much better in the flesh than pictures. Front end looks ‘off’ in pictures but works in the flesh.
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