What's "high mileage" for a 997.1 Turbo?
Discussion
Hey guys - looking at buying my first 911 Turbo. I need an Italian registered car (personal reasons). Been looking at something like this - 2008 manual 997.1 Turbo . It's got about 75k miles on the clock, but comes with full porsche warranty.
Could this be considered as "high milage" for this age? What should I be on the look out for? I'm thinking of seeing whether I can get a compression test on the engine, but are there other things I should check as well?
Could this be considered as "high milage" for this age? What should I be on the look out for? I'm thinking of seeing whether I can get a compression test on the engine, but are there other things I should check as well?
Cars in Italy are *expensive*!! Take a look https://www.autoscout24.it/lst/porsche/997/ve_turb... You won't get a good model for less than €80k here.
I'd buy in the UK and import, but not many LHD cars come up there.
I'd buy in the UK and import, but not many LHD cars come up there.
Kind of... you pay the normal road tax ("bollo") at the top rate (~€1,200) and then you pay the high performance tax on top ("superbollo"), which is €3.87 for each additional KW above 100KW.
So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year.
But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age.
So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year.
So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year.
But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age.
So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year.
The 997.1 turbo uses the mezger engine, which, as you probably know, is likely the most reliable Porsche engine of the last 30 years. There are myriad 996 turbos with the same engine that are happy into six figures. Personally I have ~80k on mine and a recent compression test showed all cylinder figures in the high 90%s against spec which the mechanic said was "unbelieveable" for the age.
It is high-ish for the age but hopefully the price reflects that. Other bits and bobs do fail but the engines are extremely strong and I wouldn't be worried about it if the servicing has been regular.
It is high-ish for the age but hopefully the price reflects that. Other bits and bobs do fail but the engines are extremely strong and I wouldn't be worried about it if the servicing has been regular.
capodeicapi said:
ImbackYo said:
Not sure about high mileage but that sure is a high price. You're not thinking of paying that surely?????
Be interested in what you think the fair value price for this car should be if it was selling in the UK? 2008 manual 997 Turbo with ceramic brakes and ~75k miles
The UK is a peculiar market for luxury cars. Many expensive cars are much cheaper after 10 years than they are on the continent. There are probably many factors, one of them certainly being the only RHD country in Europe.
As a Swiss I often browse the classified on here or on Autotrader and marvel at the many interesting cars that are way cheaper than here.
But regarding OPs question: OP why are you asking? Because of worries regarding longevity or because of residual values?
Regarding the former, as has been pointed out already, the 997 Turbo has a very good reputation for having one of the most reliable Porsche engines. And the 997 in general shares this body wise. Many components of the chassis need a refresh after a certain amount of time and mileage, but this is to be expected with any car. This also applies for many other parts.
An other factor is that mileage affects engines (and other parts of the drive line) less than heat cycles. Often a well looked after car with high miles that has been used for long trips is a better choice than a low mileage one that has been used daily for a 5 mile commute around London.
This brings me to the second possibility: residual values.
This one is difficult to answer, but generally the broad buyer is very mileage sensitive. And since the 997 has begun to be a modern classic (or whatever you want to call it) there are many traders, collectors, speculators and enthusiast who are after low mile cars.
Also keep in mind that different countries have different mental barriers for what is considered to be high mileage. In the UK this is generally 100k miles. I don‘t know what it is in Italy.
So in conclusion, it depends on what you are looking for to get out of the car. If you are after a car to enjoy yourself, i.e. a drivers car, I wouldn‘t worry.
But for it to be a trophy / garage queen car it probably needs to have half the miles max.
In the end it is always a question of the right price.
Personally I prefer a a well used car that has stuff replaced by a specialist, than the more expensive low miler that only has had a quick oil change every two year at the OPC.
And remember, at a certain point high miles become cool
As a Swiss I often browse the classified on here or on Autotrader and marvel at the many interesting cars that are way cheaper than here.
But regarding OPs question: OP why are you asking? Because of worries regarding longevity or because of residual values?
Regarding the former, as has been pointed out already, the 997 Turbo has a very good reputation for having one of the most reliable Porsche engines. And the 997 in general shares this body wise. Many components of the chassis need a refresh after a certain amount of time and mileage, but this is to be expected with any car. This also applies for many other parts.
An other factor is that mileage affects engines (and other parts of the drive line) less than heat cycles. Often a well looked after car with high miles that has been used for long trips is a better choice than a low mileage one that has been used daily for a 5 mile commute around London.
This brings me to the second possibility: residual values.
This one is difficult to answer, but generally the broad buyer is very mileage sensitive. And since the 997 has begun to be a modern classic (or whatever you want to call it) there are many traders, collectors, speculators and enthusiast who are after low mile cars.
Also keep in mind that different countries have different mental barriers for what is considered to be high mileage. In the UK this is generally 100k miles. I don‘t know what it is in Italy.
So in conclusion, it depends on what you are looking for to get out of the car. If you are after a car to enjoy yourself, i.e. a drivers car, I wouldn‘t worry.
But for it to be a trophy / garage queen car it probably needs to have half the miles max.
In the end it is always a question of the right price.
Personally I prefer a a well used car that has stuff replaced by a specialist, than the more expensive low miler that only has had a quick oil change every two year at the OPC.
And remember, at a certain point high miles become cool
capodeicapi said:
LunarOne said:
£52,000 max I'd say.
Interesting... so about €61,000. That means there's almost a 28% premium on buying this car in Italy.Great arbitrage opportunity if I can find a LHD one for sale in the UK!
capodeicapi said:
Kind of... you pay the normal road tax ("bollo") at the top rate (~€1,200) and then you pay the high performance tax on top ("superbollo"), which is €3.87 for each additional KW above 100KW.
So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year.
But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age.
So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year.
Buy one in Dubai and import it. So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year.
But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age.
So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year.
996 turbo, manual, LHD and 66,000km at €69k.
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-996-turbo...
997 turbo, auto LHD, 41k miles at €80k
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-997-turbo...
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-996-turbo...
997 turbo, auto LHD, 41k miles at €80k
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-997-turbo...
Coincidentally my 2008 997.1 Turbo manual started its life in Italy. It’s now in Sweden where I live and paid the equivalent of €66k last summer. It had 87000km at the time of purchase.
The sek to eur is very favorable for anyone buying from Europe at the moment. I’m sure you could pick up a nice lhd turbo in Sweden then have a great time driving it back to Italy. That’s what the buyer of my previous GT4 did. It now lives In France. He paid €80k for it which was around 20% less than the equivalent car on the continent but was a good private selling price here.
Here’s a private sale for around €65k. I’m sure you could be cheeky and offer €61k (700k SEK) for a quick sale.
https://www.blocket.se/annons/kalmar/porsche_911_9...
My guess is that the porsche warranty on the car in Italy is why it’s expensive. These cars are getting old now and can throw up big bills. As mentioned the mezger is very reliable but there are lots of things that can and do go wrong. Not sure I’d be keen on Ceramics on a 15+ yr old car either. The thought of something breaking keeps me awake at night but then the shove in the back when you press the throttle is worth it and seriously addictive.
The sek to eur is very favorable for anyone buying from Europe at the moment. I’m sure you could pick up a nice lhd turbo in Sweden then have a great time driving it back to Italy. That’s what the buyer of my previous GT4 did. It now lives In France. He paid €80k for it which was around 20% less than the equivalent car on the continent but was a good private selling price here.
Here’s a private sale for around €65k. I’m sure you could be cheeky and offer €61k (700k SEK) for a quick sale.
https://www.blocket.se/annons/kalmar/porsche_911_9...
My guess is that the porsche warranty on the car in Italy is why it’s expensive. These cars are getting old now and can throw up big bills. As mentioned the mezger is very reliable but there are lots of things that can and do go wrong. Not sure I’d be keen on Ceramics on a 15+ yr old car either. The thought of something breaking keeps me awake at night but then the shove in the back when you press the throttle is worth it and seriously addictive.
Edited by Oz83 on Thursday 13th July 22:15
Filibuster said:
The UK is a peculiar market for luxury cars. Many expensive cars are much cheaper after 10 years than they are on the continent. There are probably many factors, one of them certainly being the only RHD country in Europe.
As a Swiss I often browse the classified on here or on Autotrader and marvel at the many interesting cars that are way cheaper than here.
But regarding OPs question: OP why are you asking? Because of worries regarding longevity or because of residual values?
Regarding the former, as has been pointed out already, the 997 Turbo has a very good reputation for having one of the most reliable Porsche engines. And the 997 in general shares this body wise. Many components of the chassis need a refresh after a certain amount of time and mileage, but this is to be expected with any car. This also applies for many other parts.
An other factor is that mileage affects engines (and other parts of the drive line) less than heat cycles. Often a well looked after car with high miles that has been used for long trips is a better choice than a low mileage one that has been used daily for a 5 mile commute around London.
This brings me to the second possibility: residual values.
This one is difficult to answer, but generally the broad buyer is very mileage sensitive. And since the 997 has begun to be a modern classic (or whatever you want to call it) there are many traders, collectors, speculators and enthusiast who are after low mile cars.
Also keep in mind that different countries have different mental barriers for what is considered to be high mileage. In the UK this is generally 100k miles. I don‘t know what it is in Italy.
So in conclusion, it depends on what you are looking for to get out of the car. If you are after a car to enjoy yourself, i.e. a drivers car, I wouldn‘t worry.
But for it to be a trophy / garage queen car it probably needs to have half the miles max.
In the end it is always a question of the right price.
Personally I prefer a a well used car that has stuff replaced by a specialist, than the more expensive low miler that only has had a quick oil change every two year at the OPC.
And remember, at a certain point high miles become cool
Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Yes, I’m predominantly thinking about it from a reliability / longevity perspective. I know the mezger engine is pretty bulletproof, but I’m going to be using this predominantly for relatively long journeys at a time (200km+) and want something that’s going to reliably get me there and back. Quite happy to perform preventive maintenance, but I do want the car to last well into the 100k miles (I can easily see myself doubling the current mileage over the next 5 years).As a Swiss I often browse the classified on here or on Autotrader and marvel at the many interesting cars that are way cheaper than here.
But regarding OPs question: OP why are you asking? Because of worries regarding longevity or because of residual values?
Regarding the former, as has been pointed out already, the 997 Turbo has a very good reputation for having one of the most reliable Porsche engines. And the 997 in general shares this body wise. Many components of the chassis need a refresh after a certain amount of time and mileage, but this is to be expected with any car. This also applies for many other parts.
An other factor is that mileage affects engines (and other parts of the drive line) less than heat cycles. Often a well looked after car with high miles that has been used for long trips is a better choice than a low mileage one that has been used daily for a 5 mile commute around London.
This brings me to the second possibility: residual values.
This one is difficult to answer, but generally the broad buyer is very mileage sensitive. And since the 997 has begun to be a modern classic (or whatever you want to call it) there are many traders, collectors, speculators and enthusiast who are after low mile cars.
Also keep in mind that different countries have different mental barriers for what is considered to be high mileage. In the UK this is generally 100k miles. I don‘t know what it is in Italy.
So in conclusion, it depends on what you are looking for to get out of the car. If you are after a car to enjoy yourself, i.e. a drivers car, I wouldn‘t worry.
But for it to be a trophy / garage queen car it probably needs to have half the miles max.
In the end it is always a question of the right price.
Personally I prefer a a well used car that has stuff replaced by a specialist, than the more expensive low miler that only has had a quick oil change every two year at the OPC.
And remember, at a certain point high miles become cool
g7jhp said:
Why not choose a 996 turbo?
Far more choice, especially if you want a manual coupe and plenty of scope if you want it to go faster.
Worth trying a search on Elferspot for a LHD of either 996 or 997 turbo.
I may be a little biased!
It’s a lovely car. I’m just more set on the 997 shape.Far more choice, especially if you want a manual coupe and plenty of scope if you want it to go faster.
Worth trying a search on Elferspot for a LHD of either 996 or 997 turbo.
I may be a little biased!
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