Discussion
So Red Bull have now won 11 in a row, equalling McLaren in 1988.
Other teams' upgrades have brought them close but it's clear they're still nowhere near.
With reliability the way it is these days are we left hoping for a miracle (of the Monza 1988 kind) to stop them winning all the races this year?
I know it's more likely they won't statistically/odds wise but Max especially looks imperious.
Almost felt like he let Lando lead a few laps whilst it was his home race, he's at that stage of being able to do what he wants.
Other teams' upgrades have brought them close but it's clear they're still nowhere near.
With reliability the way it is these days are we left hoping for a miracle (of the Monza 1988 kind) to stop them winning all the races this year?
I know it's more likely they won't statistically/odds wise but Max especially looks imperious.
Almost felt like he let Lando lead a few laps whilst it was his home race, he's at that stage of being able to do what he wants.
I suspect Red Bull are no longer using all their performance. If someone else got close in the race then they might have to, but Max can pull a 1-1.5second a lap without DRS easily it seems at almost any circuit. That means it is quite likely they will get 18-20 in a row. The only thing that is going to stop a car with that level of advantage is going to be a DNF, be it mechanical or crashing. But watching Max race today he has that under control a little more too (albeit I suspect if it was Lewis he battled it may be different for some reason).
I wouldn't say the rest are ''nowhere''. Everyone from Max down very close to each other. Max himself wasn't exactly romping away at the front. Listening to his onboard it didn't sound like he was exactly holding back, either. "if we can't build the gap" was said a couple of times by GP.
Sergio was lucky with the piss poor Ferrari strategy otherwise he'd likely have finished 8th. The cars outside the top is what I call nowhere. Now Perez is no Max but 8th? Hell even 6th was NOT good.
IMO the pace from earlier in the season isn't there anymore.
That said RB have only made very small, track specific upgrades really. Seems a bigger upgrade coming for Hungary.
11/11 this is only the first time it happened in the history F1. 18, 20 races is a bit extreme to say it can be done ''easily''.
Sergio was lucky with the piss poor Ferrari strategy otherwise he'd likely have finished 8th. The cars outside the top is what I call nowhere. Now Perez is no Max but 8th? Hell even 6th was NOT good.
IMO the pace from earlier in the season isn't there anymore.
That said RB have only made very small, track specific upgrades really. Seems a bigger upgrade coming for Hungary.
11/11 this is only the first time it happened in the history F1. 18, 20 races is a bit extreme to say it can be done ''easily''.
Bas Jaski said:
I wouldn't say the rest are ''nowhere''. Everyone from Max down very close to each other. Max himself wasn't exactly romping away at the front. Listening to his onboard it didn't sound like he was exactly holding back, either. "if we can't build the gap" was said a couple of times by GP.
Sergio was lucky with the piss poor Ferrari strategy otherwise he'd likely have finished 8th. The cars outside the top is what I call nowhere. Now Perez is no Max but 8th? Hell even 6th was NOT good.
IMO the pace from earlier in the season isn't there anymore.
That said RB have only made very small, track specific upgrades really. Seems a bigger upgrade coming for Hungary.
11/11 this is only the first time it happened in the history F1. 18, 20 races is a bit extreme to say it can be done ''easily''.
The OP said he suspects Max was taking it easy. So the gap between Max and the rest is irrelevant IF the OP is correct.Sergio was lucky with the piss poor Ferrari strategy otherwise he'd likely have finished 8th. The cars outside the top is what I call nowhere. Now Perez is no Max but 8th? Hell even 6th was NOT good.
IMO the pace from earlier in the season isn't there anymore.
That said RB have only made very small, track specific upgrades really. Seems a bigger upgrade coming for Hungary.
11/11 this is only the first time it happened in the history F1. 18, 20 races is a bit extreme to say it can be done ''easily''.
I don't buy into the idea that RB and Max are holding back.
The others are catching them.
Don't forget that Red Bull have the least amount of budget and time permitted to develop this year's car (and next). Those lower down have more money and more time. This is why we're starting to see a resurgence of McLaren and Williams and occasionally the likes of Hass in the top ten.
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
The others are catching them.
Don't forget that Red Bull have the least amount of budget and time permitted to develop this year's car (and next). Those lower down have more money and more time. This is why we're starting to see a resurgence of McLaren and Williams and occasionally the likes of Hass in the top ten.
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
StevieBee said:
I don't buy into the idea that RB and Max are holding back.
The others are catching them.
Don't forget that Red Bull have the least amount of budget and time permitted to develop this year's car (and next). Those lower down have more money and more time. This is why we're starting to see a resurgence of McLaren and Williams and occasionally the likes of Hass in the top ten.
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
I disagree, seeing as Max can extract a faster lap time using less of the track - note all those drivers who felt they had no option but to exceed track limits to still be behind Max and not gain on him and it's fairly obvious that they would be able to go quicker if they needed to.The others are catching them.
Don't forget that Red Bull have the least amount of budget and time permitted to develop this year's car (and next). Those lower down have more money and more time. This is why we're starting to see a resurgence of McLaren and Williams and occasionally the likes of Hass in the top ten.
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
eps said:
StevieBee said:
I don't buy into the idea that RB and Max are holding back.
The others are catching them.
Don't forget that Red Bull have the least amount of budget and time permitted to develop this year's car (and next). Those lower down have more money and more time. This is why we're starting to see a resurgence of McLaren and Williams and occasionally the likes of Hass in the top ten.
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
I disagree, seeing as Max can extract a faster lap time using less of the track - note all those drivers who felt they had no option but to exceed track limits to still be behind Max and not gain on him and it's fairly obvious that they would be able to go quicker if they needed to.The others are catching them.
Don't forget that Red Bull have the least amount of budget and time permitted to develop this year's car (and next). Those lower down have more money and more time. This is why we're starting to see a resurgence of McLaren and Williams and occasionally the likes of Hass in the top ten.
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
StevieBee said:
I don't buy into the idea that RB and Max are holding back.
I tend to agree. There is clearly 1 lap pace there and that certainly helps break the DRS but he's been skirting with track limits, walls, sideways through corners etc. but he's definitely pushing. The gap will only shrink as the season wears on. Also Perez, albeit in a rut of form, hasn't exactly been carving through the field
StevieBee said:
The more surprising aspects are that Aston Martin and Alpine seem to be going backwards despite the capacity for development that is afforded to them.
Maybe a bit surprising but I've been saying for weeks now that Aston isn't as good as it's been made to look. If Ferrari stop dropping the ball and McLaren maintain their form they might end up 5th in the constructors, which I think they'd view as a disappointment. Max pulled out 2.1 seconds on one lap at the safety car restart.
Oh but norris was defending, not 2.1 seconds worth of defence.
Anyone who thinks max's redbull isn't light years ahead is either in full cope mode or deluded.
We don't even know the full potential of that car as max has no need to drive it close to the limit as he has zero competition.
I doubt there will be an actual fight for the wdc until after the 26 regs if we are lucky.
Unless there is a mechanical or a weather disruption I think max will win every race remaining.
Oh but norris was defending, not 2.1 seconds worth of defence.
Anyone who thinks max's redbull isn't light years ahead is either in full cope mode or deluded.
We don't even know the full potential of that car as max has no need to drive it close to the limit as he has zero competition.
I doubt there will be an actual fight for the wdc until after the 26 regs if we are lucky.
Unless there is a mechanical or a weather disruption I think max will win every race remaining.
Edited by SmoothCriminal on Monday 10th July 11:37
I think Max is managing his race, doing enough to stay ahead with some still in reserve if needed. I do think the gap will close later in the season as I'm sure Red Bull are not going to spend much more time developing this year's car compared to the other teams, so maybe later in the season we might see a bit more competition for 1st place. But until then I think barring reliability issues or safety car timings I don't see much changing.
The whole statistics thing is nonsense though. These days cars are so much more reliable it makes it a lot "easier" for a dominant team to rack up the wins like this. 1988 was truly remarkable given the propensity of the engines from that era to let go in plumes of smoke.
The whole statistics thing is nonsense though. These days cars are so much more reliable it makes it a lot "easier" for a dominant team to rack up the wins like this. 1988 was truly remarkable given the propensity of the engines from that era to let go in plumes of smoke.
said:
SmoothCriminal said:
Max pulled out 2.1 seconds on one lap at the safety car restart.
Oh but norris was defending, not 2.1 seconds worth of defence.
Anyone who thinks max's redbull isn't light years ahead is either in full cope mode or deluded.
Also worth mentioning that in Canada immediately after the safety car restart Max was out of DRS range, to the tune of 1.2 seconds, by turn 3. To have that kind of pace in your pocket is extrodinary. Makes you wonder why Perez is making such a hash of things recently, especially in qualifying.Oh but norris was defending, not 2.1 seconds worth of defence.
Anyone who thinks max's redbull isn't light years ahead is either in full cope mode or deluded.
F1GTRUeno said:
Almost felt like he let Lando lead a few laps whilst it was his home race, he's at that stage of being able to do what he wants.
Until DRS is activated the Red Bull had no real advantage to catch and overtake and when he did Lando's car was in energy recovery mode so slower too. But McLaren have made the leap up in performance.SmoothCriminal said:
Max pulled out 2.1 seconds on one lap at the safety car restart.
Oh but norris was defending, not 2.1 seconds worth of defence.
Anyone who thinks max's redbull isn't light years ahead is either in full cope mode or deluded.
We don't even know the full potential of that car as max has no need to drive it close to the limit as he has zero competition.
I doubt there will be an actual fight for the wdc until after the 26 regs if we are lucky.
Unless there is a mechanical or a weather disruption I think max will win every race remaining.
Of course we know the full potential don’t you watch qualy? He’s not qualifying tenths of a second faster that second place on purpose! Oh yeah we could qualify 2 seconds faster than everyone but 0.2 is fine lol. Oh but norris was defending, not 2.1 seconds worth of defence.
Anyone who thinks max's redbull isn't light years ahead is either in full cope mode or deluded.
We don't even know the full potential of that car as max has no need to drive it close to the limit as he has zero competition.
I doubt there will be an actual fight for the wdc until after the 26 regs if we are lucky.
Unless there is a mechanical or a weather disruption I think max will win every race remaining.
Edited by SmoothCriminal on Monday 10th July 11:37
BoRED S2upid said:
Of course we know the full potential don’t you watch qualy? He’s not qualifying tenths of a second faster that second place on purpose! Oh yeah we could qualify 2 seconds faster than everyone but 0.2 is fine lol.
Races are won on Sunday, not Saturday. In race trim the RB is significantly faster than any other car, probably in the order of 1.5 - 2.0 seconds per lap.I think Max is still driving hard despite what people think. In the last stint yesterday even if he pulled out a massive jump after the restart he had to manage the Softs as did Lewis; in the two stop races this year the tyres needed managing more which probably pegged Max a bit but even then he was going over track limits in Spain.
McLaren have probably gave RBR something to think about because Max couldn't get a massive lead in the first stint yesterday because ideally you'd want one to cover an unplanned mid-race pit stop.
I'm still enjoying this season. The battle for best-of-the-rest has been epic and unpredictable because it has you can never tell who will come second best to Max/RBR. Aston, Ferrari, Merc, and now McLaren are now in the mix. The question is can they win on merit or will it take a moment of fortune?
It reminds me of 2004 and I feel like I'm the only person who enjoyed that year. BAR-Honda could have won if fortune went their way e.g. German GP; Williams and McLaren eventually sorted out their cars and won in the second half of the season. I have hope similar will occur this year.
McLaren have probably gave RBR something to think about because Max couldn't get a massive lead in the first stint yesterday because ideally you'd want one to cover an unplanned mid-race pit stop.
I'm still enjoying this season. The battle for best-of-the-rest has been epic and unpredictable because it has you can never tell who will come second best to Max/RBR. Aston, Ferrari, Merc, and now McLaren are now in the mix. The question is can they win on merit or will it take a moment of fortune?
It reminds me of 2004 and I feel like I'm the only person who enjoyed that year. BAR-Honda could have won if fortune went their way e.g. German GP; Williams and McLaren eventually sorted out their cars and won in the second half of the season. I have hope similar will occur this year.
MustangGT said:
BoRED S2upid said:
Of course we know the full potential don’t you watch qualy? He’s not qualifying tenths of a second faster that second place on purpose! Oh yeah we could qualify 2 seconds faster than everyone but 0.2 is fine lol.
Races are won on Sunday, not Saturday. In race trim the RB is significantly faster than any other car, probably in the order of 1.5 - 2.0 seconds per lap.Teppic said:
Also worth mentioning that in Canada immediately after the safety car restart Max was out of DRS range, to the tune of 1.2 seconds, by turn 3. To have that kind of pace in your pocket is extrodinary. Makes you wonder why Perez is making such a hash of things recently, especially in qualifying.
With such performance gaps Max seems very Schumacher-esq compared to his team mates.Could Norris do better at RB than Perez ? Difficult to guage.
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