Someone has built a house on my land they don t own
Discussion
Property owned by my parents. Before they bought it half the garden was sold off and planning permission granted for a house.
When they moved in there was a simple post and wire fence and sone small leylandi dividing the garden.
They recently checked the land registry plans and have discovered that the fence was in the wrong place and should have been about 16ft further away from their house.
The neighbours have begun building their house right against the fence as installed. This means according to the land registry plans they have built a chunk of their house on land that doesn’t belong to them…. Perhaps unknowingly.
The site is sloping, because they have built the house in the wrong place it sits higher than it was shown on the plans. It also now has windows on the back wall facing which were not on the plans. The garage has also been converted into a bedroom/annexe during construction.
My folks contacted the local planning team when they spotted the above errors in construction in December 22 but other than “were looking at it but were busy” they have had no comeback. Construction continues and the property is now with roof and glazing going in.
I actually don’t mind the house where it is but it peeves me that it hasn’t been built to plans.
I’d have gone and had a quiet chat with the neighbour but my parents don’t want to ruffle feathers as they want to live there forever…
Questions…
if the fence was in the wrong place who should have checked this before the house was built and what can be done about it now?
Any thoughts on what to do re boundary and planning deviations. I’m unsure what advice to give my parents. I suspect they need legal advice but unsure what to suggest. …..
When they moved in there was a simple post and wire fence and sone small leylandi dividing the garden.
They recently checked the land registry plans and have discovered that the fence was in the wrong place and should have been about 16ft further away from their house.
The neighbours have begun building their house right against the fence as installed. This means according to the land registry plans they have built a chunk of their house on land that doesn’t belong to them…. Perhaps unknowingly.
The site is sloping, because they have built the house in the wrong place it sits higher than it was shown on the plans. It also now has windows on the back wall facing which were not on the plans. The garage has also been converted into a bedroom/annexe during construction.
My folks contacted the local planning team when they spotted the above errors in construction in December 22 but other than “were looking at it but were busy” they have had no comeback. Construction continues and the property is now with roof and glazing going in.
I actually don’t mind the house where it is but it peeves me that it hasn’t been built to plans.
I’d have gone and had a quiet chat with the neighbour but my parents don’t want to ruffle feathers as they want to live there forever…
Questions…
if the fence was in the wrong place who should have checked this before the house was built and what can be done about it now?
Any thoughts on what to do re boundary and planning deviations. I’m unsure what advice to give my parents. I suspect they need legal advice but unsure what to suggest. …..
Edited by tegwin on Sunday 2nd July 08:38
I understand not wanting to ruffle feathers, but if somebody is building a house on your (parents in this instance) land and you don’t consent to it why on earth wouldn’t you let them know ASAP?
This, could, all have been an innocent mis-understanding of where the boundary line is (often not clear on plan). 6 months on so much more money and effort will have been spent on the neighbours development that could have been halted. Situation is likely to be a lot messier and costlier than it could have been all for the sake of a conversation?
That extends to the planning team as well. How it’s been allowed to go on for so long is unfathomable
This, could, all have been an innocent mis-understanding of where the boundary line is (often not clear on plan). 6 months on so much more money and effort will have been spent on the neighbours development that could have been halted. Situation is likely to be a lot messier and costlier than it could have been all for the sake of a conversation?
That extends to the planning team as well. How it’s been allowed to go on for so long is unfathomable
GiantCardboardPlato said:
Isn’t where a house is built also a planning matter, though?
I can’t get planning permission for a house on site A, build it on site B, and then claim it’s not a planning issue but a civil matter.
If it complied with the rules in site A and still complies on site B it might not be an issue, I.e. if they submitted an amendment item would be granted.I can’t get planning permission for a house on site A, build it on site B, and then claim it’s not a planning issue but a civil matter.
Feathers are almost certainly going to be more ruffled now than if they’d raised the matter with the neighbours six months ago.
The question they should be asking themselves is what a solution looks like.
Neighbours aren’t going to be happy being asked to pull it down and start again, nor are they going to want to stump up money for extra land (assuming planners will allow it to remain where it is). Can’t really see either as being great for neighbourly relations, but equally I doubt you/your parents want to see their land just given away as a result of something that may (or may not) have been a mistake.
The question they should be asking themselves is what a solution looks like.
Neighbours aren’t going to be happy being asked to pull it down and start again, nor are they going to want to stump up money for extra land (assuming planners will allow it to remain where it is). Can’t really see either as being great for neighbourly relations, but equally I doubt you/your parents want to see their land just given away as a result of something that may (or may not) have been a mistake.
How as this even got passed the planning stage?
The planning application needs to show the proposed development in relation to a site plan, which would clearly show the boundaries of the property?
In this case wouldn’t this show the proposed house with a great big red line through the middle of it denoting the boundary??
The planning application needs to show the proposed development in relation to a site plan, which would clearly show the boundaries of the property?
In this case wouldn’t this show the proposed house with a great big red line through the middle of it denoting the boundary??
Edited by NumBMW on Sunday 2nd July 09:15
Unbeleivable you (parents) have sat on your hands while a building project going on for months. Also letting them finish and move in before you drop the bombshell might ruffle feathers even more.
Border disputes can be complex and prolonged, you need proper legal advice here. It is even possible you might be mistaken.
16 inches error in a decent size garden could be worked around -but 16 feet is a double garage and driveway.
I really think they need to be informed - unless they have realised and are keeping schtum about it?
Border disputes can be complex and prolonged, you need proper legal advice here. It is even possible you might be mistaken.
16 inches error in a decent size garden could be worked around -but 16 feet is a double garage and driveway.
I really think they need to be informed - unless they have realised and are keeping schtum about it?
LooneyTunes said:
Feathers are almost certainly going to be more ruffled now than if they’d raised the matter with the neighbours six months ago.
The question they should be asking themselves is what a solution looks like.
Neighbours aren’t going to be happy being asked to pull it down and start again, nor are they going to want to stump up money for extra land (assuming planners will allow it to remain where it is). Can’t really see either as being great for neighbourly relations, but equally I doubt you/your parents want to see their land just given away as a result of something that may (or may not) have been a mistake.
If they want it to stay they are gonna have to stump up the cash to buy the land surely! The question they should be asking themselves is what a solution looks like.
Neighbours aren’t going to be happy being asked to pull it down and start again, nor are they going to want to stump up money for extra land (assuming planners will allow it to remain where it is). Can’t really see either as being great for neighbourly relations, but equally I doubt you/your parents want to see their land just given away as a result of something that may (or may not) have been a mistake.
I know people who would calculate how much it costs to knock down and start again in the correct position, then offer to sell them the land a grand less than that !
Is the fence in the same place? Does the fenced off land pre date your parent purchase?
How was the land marketed? ie this parcel of fenced off land? if so could have been miss marketed and the boundaries missed by the solicitors.
You'll need to inform your parents solicitors that handled the transactions, if planning enforcement want the building down, there could be lawsuits left right and centre.
How was the land marketed? ie this parcel of fenced off land? if so could have been miss marketed and the boundaries missed by the solicitors.
You'll need to inform your parents solicitors that handled the transactions, if planning enforcement want the building down, there could be lawsuits left right and centre.
tegwin said:
- Before they bought it half the garden was sold off and planning permission granted for a house.
- When they moved in there was a simple post and wire fence dividing the garden.
- They recently checked the land registry plans and have discovered that the fence was in the wrong place and should have been about 16ft further away from their house.
- The neighbours have begun building their house right against the fence as installed. This means according to the land registry plans they have built a chunk of their house on land that doesn’t belong to them…. Perhaps unknowingly.
- The site is sloping, because they have built the house in the wrong place it sits higher than it was shown on the plans. It also now has windows on the back wall facing which were not on the plans. The garage has also been converted into a bedroom/annexe during construction.
- My folks contacted the local planning team when they spotted the above errors in construction in December 22 but other than “were looking at it but were busy” they have had no comeback. Construction continues and the property is now with roof and glazing going in.
- I actually don’t mind the house where it is but it peeves me that it hasn’t been built to plans.
if the fence was in the wrong place who should have checked this before the house was built and what can be done about it now?
Any thoughts on what to do re boundary and planning deviations. I’m unsure what advice to give my parents. I suspect they need legal advice but unsure what to suggest. ….
Who should have checked the fence:
This may depend on whether the fence was erected before or after contracts were exchanged on your parent's purchase of the property. I am going to assume it was erected before. If it was after, their position may be a little more favourable, but my ultimate recommendation would remain the same.
Who should have checked the fence?:
It would have been up to whoever prepared the Transfer Plan that was submitted to the Land Registry, when the land was sold, or whoever set out the fence based on that transfer plan whichever came first - the plan or the fence. However; that becomes largely academic, because:
It was then up to the purchaser of the plot and your parents, respectively, to satisfy themselves:
a) that they were happy with what they were buying, having visually inspected the property prior to purchase, and;
b) that the boundary on the ground reflected the title plan of the plot they were purchasing.
Obviously, it would have been a different matter if the fence had not been in place before they bought, and they were promised (on the basis of a dimensioned plot transfer plan) 100' of garden but were only delivered 84'.
Whist second-guessing Land Registry is a dangerous thing to attempt, if the purchase was on the basis of a pre-existing fence alignment (rather than a dimensioned transfer plan) I would expect that when the error is reported to them, they will tell you that title plans are indicative and that the boundary on the ground takes precedence: they will assume that both purchasers were happy with what they were buying in terms of physical inspection of the boundary alignment as it actually existed on site, and they will therefore adjust both title plans to reflect the surveyed line of the post and wire fence (or whatever it has been replaced with).
Regardless of all of the above advice, your parents only recourse at this point is to seek the involvement and advice of an RICS Chartered Land Surveyor who specialises in boundary disputes, and take it from there. Solicitors may also need to become involved, to deal with the Land Registry, but obviously aren't going to be trundling around on site measuring fence alignments with a Total Station. Any legal action will be down to your parents: in terms of the land ownership, neither Planning nor any other statutory body will have any interest in intervening on their behalf (see response to your second question, below).
Planning Deviations
If the house has not been build according to the approved Plans, the Planning have a duty to investigate if it is reported to them (but under no statutory time requirement). Whether they choose to take enforcement action is up to them, but if they do so it would be on the basis of material Planning impacts (eg. overlooking/overbearing relationship to your parent's property), not land ownership: they have no interest or powers in relation to land ownership disputes.
The likely (almost certain) first response from Planning enforcement will be to ask the neighbour to submit a restrospective Planning Application (or minor amendment) for the alterations to the design. In theory, this should be determined without fear or favour, as if the house hadn't already been started. In practice the Planners will be bending over backwards to approve it, if they can, because they really don't like the paperwork, neither do their Councillors (who would take the final decision on enfocement) like the adverse publicity of forcing someone to knock something down.
On the specific issue of the garage conversion:
Is the garage integal or detached from the house?
Technically, houses don't have Class A or Class E Permitted Development rights until they are occupied as dwellings, but if the work would be PD (which may be a separate question of some complexity it the garage is detached, so I won't go into that here), then it is unlikely that the Planners would take enforcement action on this particular point, because they would not see it as being in the public interest to waste time and public money on enforcing against work that it would be lawful to undertake the day the property is first occupied.
Edited to add:
Crossed post with various others, particularly Smokey Mow and DeeSee who have made the same points with more brevity.
Edited by Equus on Sunday 2nd July 10:18
NumBMW said:
If they want it to stay they are gonna have to stump up the cash to buy the land surely!
I know people who would calculate how much it costs to knock down and start again in the correct position, then offer to sell them the land a grand less than that !
That assumes the OP’s parents want to sell it… I know people who would calculate how much it costs to knock down and start again in the correct position, then offer to sell them the land a grand less than that !
Ultimately someone is going to have to point out that they think there’s a problem and see what the neighbours view is. It’ll be harder for the OP/parents to do it in person, but may be better received than first contact being from lawyers.
Either way, if the OP’s correct that it has been built on land they don’t own, the news is going to be less well received than had the matter been raised much earlier.
There’s a lot going on here, not least the length of time that the fence has been in the ‘wrong’ place. It is also not unlawful to obtain planning permission for developing land that you do not own, but you do have to notify the owner. So the actual location of the new building may not be of concern to the planners. As to whether it complies with the approved design is a different matter.
Some early advice from a surveyor experienced in such disputes would be a sensible first step. If they suggest marking out the boundary by scaling off the Land Registry plan as the answer to the problem, they’ll probably be wrong unless they have explained the General Boundaries rule first.
Some early advice from a surveyor experienced in such disputes would be a sensible first step. If they suggest marking out the boundary by scaling off the Land Registry plan as the answer to the problem, they’ll probably be wrong unless they have explained the General Boundaries rule first.
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